Joseph, good post mho, my two cents is that this has blown far bigger than anticipated and the question that shouldn't be asked now that money has been paid is "if he can deliver" and not "when" - given the scale of the response I agree there would not be too many grumbles if there is a delay with nailing down a spec and performance to resemble something on the website and a decent product is delivered. With the specs changing and the claims being tempered, with duties and sales tax not thought out or being addressed, I have little confidence that they will pull this off personally but hope they do for everybody's sakes!
The Sondors Bike is Unravelling a Bit
- Thread starter George S.
- Start date
wa5
Well-Known Member
Will Storms customers be reasonable when it comes to delays etc? Just from my own experience in sales, I'd say NO. People spending hundreds just seem to be more unreasonable than people spending thousands. perhaps its a socio economic thing?
just on the Storm / Ivars Sondors thing... has anybody found out for sure they are one in the same person, or is this information wrong?
just on the Storm / Ivars Sondors thing... has anybody found out for sure they are one in the same person, or is this information wrong?
Morning Trev, well if it isn't true - and with it impacting on the credibility of the campaign and Sondors himself - the claims that he has been successfully sued for fraud etc are slanderous and I would expect immediate action to be taken by Sondors. I have read the claims for sure but he has little to no history to verify on the web which is worrying itself for a manufacturing procurement genius or who manufactures parts in-house to keep costs down but has built this bike from readily available parts of the shelf. I don't get it either.
George S.
Well-Known Member
Indiegogo. I have to think the original idea for this site, a crowdfund site, was creative projects. That’s what I think of when I think of “Indie”, like Indie Film or Indie Rock. The way that Storm ended up using this site, to fund wholesale bike imports direct to consumers, is a long way from an alt rock band or Indie documentary. (They should make a documentary about this Storm phenomenon.) I think this is a bad model for selling e bikes, especially to newbies. I doubt that Storm can confidently say he can treat this contributions as revenues and deduct all his expenses, the 7,000 bikes. They chose to call the money contributions, not sales. Most people who receive contributions don’t have ‘expenses’. The money is simply theirs to spend as they will, but they do pay some taxes off the top. The tax laws are too complicated for me to make a judgment, and there might be special rules for crowdfund projects. But I definitely think S/Co should nail this down.
It won’t happen, but everyone would be better off if Storm just went legit. His asset is the name, maybe the bike. What would it take to cancel the campaign? If the tax thing can’t be overcome, or the expenses are just too high, you tell people the truth. Then you cancel all the orders and start an Internet company selling the bike for whatever price works. You actually hire some people, create some jobs, deal within the normal legal framework of being an importer and a real company. Again, Storm is the asset. If he goes down, for whatever reason, that asset is worthless. Throw IGG and A2.0 some sort of bone, 10% of the new company or whatever.
There’s a company I follow called 1UPUSA. They make a bike rack that is hefty enough to carry an ebike. They make it in the US. People write glowing reviews, and make YouTube videos about the racks. It’s too early in the season for me to buy one, but I follow them on Facebook and I like the way they do business. Their website kind of sucks. They can’t seem to do marketing. They are the opposite of S/Co.
http://www.1upusa.com/
I just think, deep down, this is what we should be doing, as a country.
It won’t happen, but everyone would be better off if Storm just went legit. His asset is the name, maybe the bike. What would it take to cancel the campaign? If the tax thing can’t be overcome, or the expenses are just too high, you tell people the truth. Then you cancel all the orders and start an Internet company selling the bike for whatever price works. You actually hire some people, create some jobs, deal within the normal legal framework of being an importer and a real company. Again, Storm is the asset. If he goes down, for whatever reason, that asset is worthless. Throw IGG and A2.0 some sort of bone, 10% of the new company or whatever.
There’s a company I follow called 1UPUSA. They make a bike rack that is hefty enough to carry an ebike. They make it in the US. People write glowing reviews, and make YouTube videos about the racks. It’s too early in the season for me to buy one, but I follow them on Facebook and I like the way they do business. Their website kind of sucks. They can’t seem to do marketing. They are the opposite of S/Co.
http://www.1upusa.com/
I just think, deep down, this is what we should be doing, as a country.
"Indiegogo. I have to think the original idea for this site, a crowdfund site, was creative projects. That’s what I think of when I think of “Indie”, like Indie Film or Indie Rock. The way that Storm ended up using this site, to fund wholesale bike imports direct to consumers, is a long way from an alt rock band or Indie documentary. (They should make a documentary about this Storm phenomenon.) I think this is a bad model for selling e bikes, especially to newbies." Spot on.
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Campaign Owners are permitted to offer Perks to Contributors. Campaign Owners are legally bound to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks). Campaign Owners will respond promptly and truthfully to all questions posed to them by Indiegogo or any Contributor. (LMAO) If any Campaign Owner is unable to fulfill any of its commitments to Contributors (including delivering any Perks), the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include refunding their Contributions. Campaign Owners will comply with all applicable laws and regulations in the use of Contributions and delivery of Perks. Campaign Owners are responsible for collecting and remitting any taxes on Contributions, and any taxes due in connection with Perks. Indiegogo may attempt to verify the identity and other information provided to us by Campaign Owners, and we may delay, withhold, reverse or refund any Contributions or other amounts without notice or liability in the event we are unable to verify any such information to our satisfaction.
Refunds
Contributions, including the Service Fees portion thereof, are not refundable. If a Campaign Owner is unable to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks), the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include the issuance of a refund of Contributions by the Campaign Owner.
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Taxing authorities may classify funds raised on the Services as taxable income to the Campaign Owner and any beneficiary who will receive funds directly from the applicable Campaign. Indiegogo will ask for the tax identification number (TIN) of Campaign Owners and any beneficiaries so that we may report taxable income to the relevant taxing authorities. Indiegogo will provide Campaign Owners with a tax document if required by the relevant taxing authorities.
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wa5
Well-Known Member
Found this near me (Australia) on Ebay... $699 looks to have a better set of features than Storm.. for the same kind of money as they are currently charging...
http://www.ebay.com.au
might be a runout model?
Bikes are getting cheaper
Perhaps Storm can pull it off
http://www.ebay.com.au
might be a runout model?
Bikes are getting cheaper
Perhaps Storm can pull it off
I agree he might be able to sell a $400 low quality entry-level bike for $499 but he is claiming to be selling a $1299 bike for the lower price - quality, everything will suffer - when he didn't answer reasonable concerns I smelt a rat, a big stinking dirty rat. I still do! He hasn't answered questions posed by Dan Tynan either and if you look at the t's and c's of indiegogo he is bound to answer them, not delete people for asking. This stinks!
The critics will never be satsified, especially the ES weenies.. Question is why do they even care? There have been plenty of eBike projects that they barely acknowledge.
Whether the bike delivers on the promise or it doesn't should only be factor for those who ordered a bike.
The high end retail stores, the kind that carry the bikes reviewed in EBR, won't benefit from Sondor's failure, as they never had those $500 customers to lose in the first place.
And if it is a success many more of these stylish but cheap ebikes will reach the market.
Whether the bike delivers on the promise or it doesn't should only be factor for those who ordered a bike.
The high end retail stores, the kind that carry the bikes reviewed in EBR, won't benefit from Sondor's failure, as they never had those $500 customers to lose in the first place.
And if it is a success many more of these stylish but cheap ebikes will reach the market.
JoePah, I enjoy your posts.
Since not one person in this world has ordered a bike, the premise on which you make your statement fails.
You have funded a campaign. As of tonight so will I have, and I will ask the same questions that have gone unanswered and which have got me banned from the Storm FB page, as have others and have got them banned, as has Dan Tynan of Yahoo Tech - without any response whatsoever.
If you pledged and have funded the campaign as I will, did you see this statement before you clicked CONTINUE?
By clicking 'Continue', you acknowledge that you understand that you are contributing to a work-in-progress and not making a direct purchase. Perks are managed by the campaigners and cannot be guaranteed by Indiegogo. Your click also acknowledges that you agree to the Indiegogo Terms of Use.
Since not one person in this world has ordered a bike, the premise on which you make your statement fails.
You have funded a campaign. As of tonight so will I have, and I will ask the same questions that have gone unanswered and which have got me banned from the Storm FB page, as have others and have got them banned, as has Dan Tynan of Yahoo Tech - without any response whatsoever.
If you pledged and have funded the campaign as I will, did you see this statement before you clicked CONTINUE?
By clicking 'Continue', you acknowledge that you understand that you are contributing to a work-in-progress and not making a direct purchase. Perks are managed by the campaigners and cannot be guaranteed by Indiegogo. Your click also acknowledges that you agree to the Indiegogo Terms of Use.
Brambor
Well-Known Member
you seem to be going in circles. I have heard the same sentences in separate posts over an over. believe me I think the bike and the activity around it is ridiculous and I'm not a huge fan of the entire process but after you have made your (very good) points here what new contributions do you have now?
Fair point Brambor, as I will be a funder just like everyone else tonight I will pose the questions which Sondors (Ivan or Storm) has to answer to comply with Indiegogo's T's & C's - he has failed to answer them when I have put them, others have put them, Tynan has put them.... God I am boring myself now lol
Thanks, Ian! You raised the campaign total to: $3,560,991!
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Sondors Electric Bike
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Don't stop here... share with your friends!
You can drive further support and success of this campaign by telling friends and helping the team build their audience.
Every person counts!
Contribution Summary
Sondors Electric Bike
Contribution Amount:
$1USD
Payment Method:
PayPal
Your Perk:
No Perk
Your contribution will be shown on the campaign page as:
Ian Grace, $1USD VIEW FULL HISTORY
A message from the campaign
Agency 2.0 says
"Thank you for supporting this campaign."
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