The Carrot Effect

[Stefan Mikes]

Perhaps carrot effect is an SL phenomenon -- I have a vado 5.0, and generally just match the assist to the speed I want. It's easy to hit >25mph, so no need to try harder for the carrot (I'm happy with that speed).

My records of riding my Vado 6.0 (which is a 45 km/h e-bike similar to Vado 5.0) clearly show my leg power was at its highest on full Turbo rides It it is not the carrot effect then I don't know what it is

 

[leifg]

My records of riding my Vado 6.0 (which is a 45 km/h e-bike similar to Vado 5.0) clearly show my leg power was at its highest on full Turbo rides It it is not the carrot effect then I don't know what it is

Well I guess you need more motor power! Presumably if you had unlimited motor power at your disposal, you wouldn't always pedal harder at the highest assist because you could easily maintain any speed. But these bikes (especially big vado) tease us by allowing well over 250W power as we surge up to speed....and then taper down to 250W limit .

So the high speed we initially obtain comes with relatively low effort -- until the motor power starts to taper and we need to pedal harder to maintain the glorious speeds we were just enjoying.

So perhaps there is a combined carrot effect + motor tease where carrot effect is stronger on SL and motor tease is stronger on big vado.

 

[BEC111]

Question: Do you sometimes notice a tendency to exert yourself more at higher assist levels?

Not because a hill or headwind demanded more assist and exertion at the same time. Just for the sensation of gobbling up ground at higher speed and leg power?

Happens often enough to me that I've come to call it the "Carrot Effect". It's generally not intentional. I just find myself in Carrot Effect and go with it till I run out of steam.

I recall at least one other mention of something like the Carrot Effect on EBR. I can only imagine what it must be like for a strong rider!

Good example from 2 days ago: Pedaling my power-sensing Vado SL 5.0 in ECO (35/35) on a flattish stretch of Coast Highway at around 160-180W — a (somewhat) sustainable exertion level I enjoy. Then bumped assist to SPORT (60/60) at a light just to start out but forgot to go back to ECO.

Next thing I know, I'm flying along in SPORT — not just at higher ground speed, but also at ~50W more leg power! Just happened on its own, but it felt so good that I kept it up for a couple of miles before easing off.

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The SL seems to promote the Carrot Effect, and I very much like that about the bike. But the same thing happens from time to time on 2 different hub-drives with well-implemented torque-sensing assist.

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I lump these 3 ebikes as having "exertion-sensing" assist (ESA) — meaning that they track rider exertion in the form of torque or power or both and dole out motor power accordingly. Guessing the Carrot Effect requires some form of ESA but don't really understand it.

Thoughts? Experiences?

This thread has made me think about my riding in a different way. That’s a good thing.

My first adult bike (at 71) was a Cannondale Adventure Hybrid. I found it had what I thought of as its natural speed. In a middle to high middle gear I could pedal easily at about 12 - 15 mph. When conditions allowed, I could also ride effortlessly at the highest gears at as much as 20 mph before my legs or lungs gave out.

On my Vado SL, the feeling is the same at my assist level at 14-16 mph. I increase assist as I tire or the hills or wind necessitates higher assist levels. And that’s when the carrots appear. If I’m in turbo and forget to lower assist I do find myself riding faster and faster until I realize I’m still in turbo. If the conditions are right going down to Sport doesn’t heavily affect my speed or slow my cadence.

Another difference between analog and electric is cadence. I rode most comfortably at 75-80 RPM on the Cannondale. On the SL, I’m most comfortable at 85-90 RPM. I suppose, since the gearing is similar, this is where the extra speed on the SL comes from. On both bikes, I selected the highest gears at which I could pedal without strain. I change assist levels as needed for climbs or wind but try and ride at the same cadences. And that’s where the carrots seem to come in. I’m riding at 85 RPM and if I increase assist for a climb, I end up at the highest gear going really fast.

 

[DaveMatthews]

All I can say is that it's better than not seeing a thin wire across the path and experiencing the Garrote Effect...