Suggestions for mid-drive, step-through, w/ throttle?

[Otterishly]

Hi, Ebike aficionados--

I'm in the market for a bike with the following must-haves:

• Throttle
• Step-through
• Torque sensor
• Sub-65 lb. (the more “sub,” the better )
• Will accept tires that are wide enough to be gravel and mellow single-track capable
• Ability to add suspension seat post (i.e., enough clearance; size info below)

Would like to have, but not must-haves:

• Front suspension (or ability to add)
• Belt drive

Here’s how I plan to use the bike: 50 percent urban riding, 50 percent gravel (I live down 2.5 mile gravel road, so it’s unavoidable) and/or mellow single track. I will also use it as a grocery-getter, and, on occasion to pull a trailer w/ two dogs in it (total weight: approx. 115 lbs.) I weight about 115 lbs.

I need the step-through (and, for that matter, the electric assist) due to a recent injury; I’m normally an avid “acoustic” cyclist and ride a diamond frame, but it’s really important that this be step-through, and have at least some suspension, as the injury involved hip and back.

I'm 5'5", so some of the bikes on the market are probably too big. However, my height is disproportionately in my legs (inseam 31.75; top of pedal to top of seat on current bike is 34"), so I suspect some might fit me better than "recommended height" alone might lead one to believe. Of course, with more length being in my legs, that means my reach is a bit shorter, too; but, since step-through bikes tend to have very upright geometries, I figure there's probably plenty of wiggle room as far as reach goes.

I have found one bike that meets all my criteria (well, I think it might be one pound overweight, is all), which is the Evelo Omega. However, the Evelo comes with the Automatiq shifter, which I'm not sure I'll like, and therefore am not too excited about paying for. (I know it can be turned off, but it still adds complexity and expense to the system. Since I'll be in mild off-road conditions a fair amount, I suspect I'll have it off a lot of the time. I also don't love the idea that, if you run out of juice, you lose the ability to shift, and have to spin wildly all the way home. OTOH, maybe I'd love the Automatiq--and least when I'm on roads and bike paths--and just don't know it yet. Unfortunately, I can't test ride it first.

The Evelo Galaxy SL meet most of my criteria, too, and is almost $2k cheaper (because no auotshift, and no belt drive; the frame, however, is belt-drive compatible so I could add it later if I wanted to). Dislikes on this bike are the small-diameter wheels, and the high-center-of-gravity battery position--but neither of those is necessarily a deal-breaker. Likes: nice aesthetics, and relatively lightweight. They say the max pedal-to-seat-height is 31.5” (too short by 2.5”), but I think I could make it work w/ a 420 mm seat post, and will be having to buy a seat post anyway, to get the suspension.

Does anyone know of bikes other than the Evelos that meet at least the must-have criteria listed at the beginning? (Short version: step-through, throttle, torque sensor.) My budget is $5000 max—but less is definitely better.

Thanks in advance for any ideas about other bikes to look at, or thoughts about the Automatiq. (I have searched the forum for posts on it, but still don’t have a good sense of whether I’d like it or not. Kind of worried about turning the beautiful simplicity of a bike into a potential tech-frustration-fest of failed blue-tooth connections, and the like. But, if you think it operates smoothly, and is the bomb, I’d like to hear about it!)

 

[6zfshdb]

Welcome to the forum! You've come to the right place to ask your questions.

My needs were pretty basic and similar to yours when I first started looking at e-bikes. There are a large number on the market that fill the bill, but I made my decision based on many, many test rides. I took several overnight trips to cities with shops that had bikes to test ride.

Additional things you may want to consider are parts availability, warranty and service. E-bikes are a bit more complicated than conventional models. Unless you're a DIY'er, a local bike shop (LBS) that will service the bike is an important factor.

I usually don't like to recommend specific brands but one you might look at is the Pedego Platinum Interceptor step thru:

Interceptor E-Bike: Platinum Edition | Pedego Electric Bikes

Discover the perfect electric beach cruiser with the platinum edition of Pedego's Interceptor e-bike, offering unique style and a 5-Year warranty.

pedegoelectricbikes.com

It's in your price range and meets all your requirements except the belt drive. Front suspension forks and a suspension seatpost are standard equipment. The hydraulic disc brakes are also a nice feature.

FWIW, I own three of these bikes with a total of 8000 miles on them and have had very little trouble. My wife is 5' 2" and she is comfortable riding one. The main reasons I chose Pedego were their nationwide chain of dealerships, great warranty and excellent customer service.

By all means, look at and test ride as many bikes as you are able! Each has a different feel and finding one that "fits" you makes all the difference!

Again, welcome and good luck with your search!

 

[Otterishly]

Hi, 6zfshdb--

Thanks for the welcome, and the suggestions!

I agree with you that it's important to think about service and warranty and the like. As far as my DIY level, I worked in a bike shop in college, and so I'm comfortable doing all my own maintenance, upgrades, etc. on my acoustic bikes--but have no facility whatever when it comes to electronics, nor plans to acquire that kind of expertise.

So, the only reason I'd consider a mail-order-only company like Evelo is that they have a truly stellar reputation for customer service--and I do think that's worth paying extra for in the case of a machine that is, due to its electronic/electric nature, beyond my ken in some ways!

Your point about the importance of test-riding is well-taken, too. That's how I learned that I want absolutely *nothing* to do with a cadence-sensor set-up, despite the cost savings! (Wouldn't be any savings to me at all, as I don't think I'd even want to ride it. I've done enough biking over the years that I'm only comfortable/happy on a bike if I can maintain a good, high-rev cadence--which I found nearly impossible on those bikes, unless I was on a long straightaway with a consistent grade, which does not describe more than 50% of the riding I'll be doing.)

The Pedego Interceptor that you mentioned does, indeed, tic most of my boxes, and I can test ride one a mere two-hour drive from here. Somehow, despite the enormous amount of time I've spent combing the internets for bikes meeting my criteria, I'd failed to come across that one, so I very much appreciate the specific recommendation, and will definitely give one a spin next time I'm over in Eugene, probably next week.

I do think the Evelo Galaxy SL, at $2799, looks like a better value, in that it has an IGH (no belt drive, but it does have an IGH with CVT, and no derailleurs to muck about with, which is very nice) and a mid-drive rather than hub drive, which I'd appreciate for its increased efficiency, and likely decreased noise. (I forgot to list it, but both IGH and mid-drive are on my "not-necessary-but-would-really-like" list.) But it's very frustrating that I can't test drive one before buying--or, really, test drive both Evelo models to see which one feels better. I know they have that 21-day free return policy, but buying both and having them shipped here just to try them seems a little excessive!

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and experience!

 

[Rexlion]

Your want-list sounds a lot like the list I had. I wound up with a Ride1Up LMTD ST. No belt drive, but everything else. Also, you could look at the Rize City commuter ST.

Yes, I like the idea of a belt drive, too. But it wasn't a high priority.

 

[AHicks]

Just a quick thought here. I'm thinking a belt drive, with the accompanying rear gear box/CVT, is going to keep you on the heavier side when including derailleur equipped bikes in your search.

I have an Evelo Atlas (diamond frame, belt drive w/manual Enviolo CVT). At 66 lbs it's a seriously nice bike. The best way to beat it though, would be if it were 10 lbs lighter.

 

[Otterishly]

Thanks for that thought, AHicks. I'm starting to lean pretty heavily in the last day or so toward the Evelo Galaxy SL, which doesn't have a derailleur. It weighs 54 lbs with battery in, and a manageable (liftable) 46 lbs with it removed. And I can add a belt drive later, and still come in under $3k, as they bike is currently $200 off, plus I found a coupon for another $100.

Your want-list sounds a lot like the list I had. I wound up with a Ride1Up LMTD ST. No belt drive, but everything else. Also, you could look at the Rize City commuter ST.

Yes, I like the idea of a belt drive, too. But it wasn't a high priority.

Wow, Rexlion--I had completely missed those options, both of which seem like a really good value. I got a chance to ride another bike that was rear-hub drive, with a torque sensor, and I thought it felt pretty good. (It was an Aventon Level.2.) I'd prefer both of the bikes you suggest to that, one, though, on the basis of both wheel size and price. Thanks for bringing them to my attention! Especially after finding the Evelo Galaxy SL on sale, though (for $2600, after the two discounts), I think I'm going to go that route due to its comparatively light weight, mid-drive (I plan to pull a trailer full of dogs uphill pretty frequently), and the fact that I think it would be fun to go derailleur-less for a change. And maybe, down the road, as a reward for wearing out the chain it comes with, I'll upgrade to a belt drive, as the frame is set up to handle one.

Thanks to all for adding to the fun of researching these fascinating beasts, and helping to steer me toward some interesting ones to consider!
.

 

[retiredNH]

why do you dislike derailleurs so much?

 

[Otterishly]

why do you dislike derailleurs so much?

Oh, I don't really. I think they are wonderful pieces of engineering. However, the idea of a set-up that's quieter and lower-maintenance does hold some appeal. It's not that derailleurs are that bad in that hard to maintain; and I do my own bike maintenance, so it doesn't represent an expense to me, either. It's more that, the older one gets, the more demands there are on one's increasingly limited time and energy. I'm not THAT old, but I am old enough to have noticed this trend, and am starting to chose streamlining more often than I used to. In addition, the idea of continuously variable gears is just kind of interesting and cool--although, for all I know, I'll miss the rattle-and-quantum-"clunk" of the way I've experienced gear changes in the past; I kind of doubt it though.

So, I guess it's like this: I've always loved, loved, loved bicycles. "Bicycles and dogs are two things that I don't even know what humanity has done to deserve," I've said more than once. I'm excited about ebikes because they can broaden what a bike can do for me. (I used to do all these things--long trips, hauling groceries, commuting, pulling a trailer full of dogs, etc.--on an acoustic bike, no problem. But I am increasingly dealing with some mild infirmities that have left me choosing the car more often than I used to...and more often than I care to. And, because there are all these nifty ebikes coming on the market, more often than I need to!)

IGH technology seems like it might work really well in conjunction with ebike technology, and I'm just interested to try it. (Actually, my very first bike was a three speed with a banana seat and IGH, so I have tried it--but it never occurred to me to try it again, until I started shopping for this ebike. It seems like there have been a LOT of advances since I was a kid, unsurprisingly.) Without test riding, I was thinking the Automatiq (which represents the greatest advance in cycling transmission) sounded like it might be a bridge too far, for me personally, as I do enjoy feeling connected to my ride (whether bike or car), and do not relish the idea of interrupting an outdoor athletic experience by having to fiddle with bluetooth pairing and the like. The manual CVT situation sounds like it might maximize convenience, without either driving me up a technological tree, or compromising that feeling of interacting with the machine. So--in the absence of being able to just *feel* which I like best, which would be ideal, I *think* that marks the sweet spot for me, at least for my ebike. I will definitely be hanging on to my beloved, derailleured non e-bikes, too--especially my modified Klein Mantra, which I bought new in 1997, and plan to be buried with! ;-)

Absolutely nothing against derailleurs: long may they live!

 

[retiredNH]

Oh, I don't really. I think they are wonderful pieces of engineering. However, the idea of a set-up that's quieter and lower-maintenance does hold some appeal. It's not that derailleurs are that bad in that hard to maintain; and I do my own bike maintenance, so it doesn't represent an expense to me, either. It's more that, the older one gets, the more demands there are on one's increasingly limited time and energy. I'm not THAT old, but I am old enough to have noticed this trend, and am starting to chose streamlining more often than I used to. In addition, the idea of continuously variable gears is just kind of interesting and cool--although, for all I know, I'll miss the rattle-and-quantum-"clunk" of the way I've experienced gear changes in the past; I kind of doubt it though.

So, I guess it's like this: I've always loved, loved, loved bicycles. "Bicycles and dogs are two things that I don't even know what humanity has done to deserve," I've said more than once. I'm excited about ebikes because they can broaden what a bike can do for me. (I used to do all these things--long trips, hauling groceries, commuting, pulling a trailer full of dogs, etc.--on an acoustic bike, no problem. But I am increasingly dealing with some mild infirmities that have left me choosing the car more often than I used to...and more often than I care to. And, because there are all these nifty ebikes coming on the market, more often than I need to!)

IGH technology seems like it might work really well in conjunction with ebike technology, and I'm just interested to try it. (Actually, my very first bike was a three speed with a banana seat and IGH, so I have tried it--but it never occurred to me to try it again, until I started shopping for this ebike. It seems like there have been a LOT of advances since I was a kid, unsurprisingly.) Without test riding, I was thinking the Automatiq (which represents the greatest advance in cycling transmission) sounded like it might be a bridge too far, for me personally, as I do enjoy feeling connected to my ride (whether bike or car), and do not relish the idea of interrupting an outdoor athletic experience by having to fiddle with bluetooth pairing and the like. The manual CVT situation sounds like it might maximize convenience, without either driving me up a technological tree, or compromising that feeling of interacting with the machine. So--in the absence of being able to just *feel* which I like best, which would be ideal, I *think* that marks the sweet spot for me, at least for my ebike. I will definitely be hanging on to my beloved, derailleured non e-bikes, too--especially my modified Klein Mantra, which I bought new in 1997, and plan to be buried with! ;-)

Absolutely nothing against derailleurs: long may they live!

This makes a lot of sense. The CVT IGH have somewhat lower efficiency, from what I've read, but as you say, an ebike compensates for that quite well.

One of these days, I may spring for a belt driven IGH, but for now my chain driven, derailleur controlled Trek Allant 8s does OK. In fact, I only cleaned the drive train for the first time in over a year last month. But that may be because we live in a rural area, I don't ride in the rain, and our "dirt" roads aren't really dirt - they're stone and granite dust, so the crud buildup must not be that fast?

 

[AHicks]

Only conversation, but already mentioned is the fact the CVT, and very likely the geared hubs as well, do have a weight penalty.

One other point I've noticed, regarding the manual CVT, is the difference in shifting habits. Gone is the clean, precise, quick, snick snick, of the derailleur shifts, to be replaced by a much more vague type shifting. Nothing terrible, but I do miss the quick exact shifts of a well maintained derailleur. There's also the fact you must literally stop pedaling to get the easiest shifts. Yes, shifting is available while pedaling, but even if you back off on the pedal pressure while shifting, it's more difficult than when you stop pedaling completely.

Again, nothing terrible, just different. As I get some miles on the Atlas, I'm getting used to the difference. It's just brought to the surface when riding the bike that the Atlas has replaced where the differences become apparent. That happened last a couple days ago....

 

[6zfshdb]

Derailleur performance can be greatly improved through the use of electronic shifters. I use the D1X from Archer Components:

Archer Components Electronic Shifting for Every Bike

Electronic shifting systems for every bike. 100% compatible with any rear derailleur. Any number of gears. SRAM, Shimano, TRP, Campy, Box. We work great with everyone! This is the only electronic shifter you need for your bike.

archercomponents.com

Conversion took about 45 minutes including the fine tune adjustments but the shifts are now smooth, effortless and almost instantaneous.
A bit pricey but well worth it for my arthritic hands.

 

[Otterishly]

Only conversation, but already mentioned is the fact the CVT, and very likely the geared hubs as well, do have a weight penalty.

One other point I've noticed, regarding the manual CVT, is the difference in shifting habits. Gone is the clean, precise, quick, snick snick, of the derailleur shifts, to be replaced by a much more vague type shifting. Nothing terrible, but I do miss the quick exact shifts of a well maintained derailleur. There's also the fact you must literally stop pedaling to get the easiest shifts. Yes, shifting is available while pedaling, but even if you back off on the pedal pressure while shifting, it's more difficult than when you stop pedaling completely.

Again, nothing terrible, just different. As I get some miles on the Atlas, I'm getting used to the difference. It's just brought to the surface when riding the bike that the Atlas has replaced where the differences become apparent. That happened last a couple days ago....

I got a chance to ride a Gazelle that was set up with the manual Enviolo and CVT a few days ago (not b/c I was considering the bike as a whole, but b/c I wanted to try the transmission before ordering the Galaxy SL)--and you know what? I'm with you: I didn't love the feel of it, even though I expected to. I missed the quantum nature of old-fashioned shifting, which feels crisp, while the CVT felt...mushy. Like you say, I might get used to it, but I certainly wasn't floored. So much to consider! Fortunately, I find the research phase of something like this enjoyable in its own right. I am continually impressed by the importance of test rides, as I keep *thinking* one thing (as I peruse specs, and read up on the latest and greatest) and *feeling* something else when I actually try it. Also, fit is so incredibly important to the biking experience. Wish I could just go compare a couple of the Evelos--side-by-side--and then chose one. Their 21-day home trial has its benefits, but it doesn't account for that (very useful!) aspect of a normal bike shopping experience.

 

[Kayakguy]

My Ariel Rider C class is a step thru with a 7 speed Shimano Nexus IGH. Though my last acoustic bike was a Trek with a nice, smooth-working derailleur, I like the IGH so much I would be reluctant to go back. The shifts are very quick and reliable, with no lag. And it's a luxury to be able to brake suddenly without shifting (which you sometimes have to do), then shift while at a standstill. And you can shift instantly through all the gears, not just the next one up-or-down. It uses a twist shifter rather than a lever, which works perfectly.

As far as I can tell, they no longer offer the C class. So for my next bike I'm looking at Specialized, which offers some of the same features.

 

[Otterishly]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience, Kayakguy (Bikeguy, too, apparently!).

I ended up finding all the things on my "must have" list (and one of the two things on my "would like to have" list) quite unexpectedly at a local bike shop: namely, an Aventon Level.2. I test rode about a dozen bikes there, priced from $1995 to over $5k, with and without CVTs, etc., and picked the one that--specs aside--was simply the most fun to ride, and by quite a big margin, actually. To my great good fortune, the "most fun to ride" bike also happened to also be the lowest-priced of the lot! It does have a chain and derailleur--which, when I was in the online research phase, I thought I wanted to avoid. But, when I got to the test-drive stage, I found that I agreed with Ahicks, who wrote the following about CVTs in his post above:

"Gone is the clean, precise, quick, snick snick, of the derailleur shifts, to be replaced by a much more vague type shifting. Nothing terrible, but I do miss the quick exact shifts of a well maintained derailleur."

So, I stuck with the "snick, snick" and am feeling content with that choice (especially considering the savings, and most importantly, that the gestalt of this bike, for me, was just that it felt the most fun, easy, and natural to ride of all the ones I tried.) I'm really happy with the Level.2. Love the torque sensor, front suspension, 27.5" wheels, step-through frame, throttle, front suspension, and several other thoughtful details (metal fenders, really nice tail/brake lights, high-capacity rear rack, USB on the color display). I added a Kinect suspension seat post in deference to my lumbar fusion, and I'm off to the races!

P.S. About a month after I bought the Level.2, I got a chance to ride an Evelo Galaxy, which had been my front-runner during the online-research phase, during which I started this thread. Other than being lighter, which was nice, I liked the Evelo less in every way than the one I ended up with. Test rides are really key, it turns out!

 

[AHicks]

Congrats on your new bike. Hope you get a chance to just wear it out completely! -Al

 

[Otterishly]

Thanks, Al. I'm working on it!

 

[rpr]

Otterishly, I see in your initial post that you ride on gravel roads and/or mellow single track 50% of the time. I was considering the Level.2 step through for my wife but I’m not convinced it’s the best bike for her as we will mostly be riding on rough gravel roads and rutted forest service (dirt) roads in our area. Even with wider more aggressive tires and a suspension seat post, I’m concerned the ride on the Level.2 will be a bit punishing for her. A 65mm spring fork and seat post suspension can only absorb so much on a bike with 2.1” hybrid tires.

Can you comment on the Level.2’s performance on the trails and gravel roads in your area,
and whether you upsized the tires?

Thanks.

 

[scottsdalecommuter]

Congrats that is a great bike at a great price! I bought an aventon pace 500 based on how much I loved the test ride. 2000 miles later I do wish I would have got the level for the front suspension and torque sensing, my shoulders have taken a beating. Good call on getting torque sensing because the pace 500 doesn’t have it and it’s noticeable. I hope you love the bike and that one will definitely be on my short list when it’s time to get a new one.

 

[Otterishly]

Otterishly, I see in your initial post that you ride on gravel roads and/or mellow single track 50% of the time. I was considering the Level.2 step through for my wife but I’m not convinced it’s the best bike for her as we will mostly be riding on rough gravel roads and rutted forest service (dirt) roads in our area. Even with wider more aggressive tires and a suspension seat post, I’m concerned the ride on the Level.2 will be a bit punishing for her. A 65mm spring fork and seat post suspension can only absorb so much on a bike with 2.1” hybrid tires.

Can you comment on the Level.2’s performance on the trails and gravel roads in your area,
and whether you upsized the tires?

Thanks.

I haven't upsized the tires yet, because the stock ones are performing well enough, and I hate to waste them. However, when it's time to replace them I will go with something not necessarily upsized, but definitely with at least a bit of knobbiness. (Unless I want to take the fenders off, which I don't think I do want to do, I'll actually have to *down*size a bit to make room for the knobs--but I think that will be fine. Between the suspension post, a comfortable seat, and the fact that the tires still won't be skinny either way, I feel like I've got plenty of margin on the shock absorption front.)

Anyhow, I'm liking it really well on gravel roads and very non-technical single track. NOT liking it for anything remotely technical, simply because it's so heavy. (Not a problem as regards acceleration, of course; more that it wouldn't be good to fall with this bike, and it's also harder to control in a subtle-enough manner to respond to the fast changes that occur on technical single track.) So, for actual mountain biking, I'll still use the acoustic.

 

[Otterishly]

Congrats that is a great bike at a great price! I bought an aventon pace 500 based on how much I loved the test ride. 2000 miles later I do wish I would have got the level for the front suspension and torque sensing, my shoulders have taken a beating. Good call on getting torque sensing because the pace 500 doesn’t have it and it’s noticeable. I hope you love the bike and that one will definitely be on my short list when it’s time to get a new one.

Thanks for the congratualtions!

I'd encourage you to at least go test ride one sooner than later.

I'm truly amazed at how much more fun it is to ride with the torque sensor, vs. cadence-sensor--and also how much more control that engenders. It feels a lot safer, really. Also, it's responsive enough for some non-pavement situations, if that's of interest to you. (I tried taking a cadence-sensored bike on some of the many logging roads and single track trails around here, and it wasn't a good scene; I turned around after about half a mile in the interest of keeping body and soul together. With the level, I put in mile after mile on gravel and dirt roads, and mellow single track, and feel in control of the ride the whole time.)

I guess I'm thinking that the fact that it's more fun might make you want to upgrade sooner rather than later...and the fact that it's actually safer could help justify doing so. (You know: Safety first!)