ST1 Elite vs Platinum

[Admin]

Thanks for all of the tips and help on drive modes guys! I've been learning more about the Stromer interface as well and it's cool they open it up like this for refinement by each rider. I also really liked the New Wheel video, those guys know a lot about the industry and are really friendly!

In future, it will be interesting if Court goes to China and review bikes there. Perhaps, interview the people who make our batteries, motor etc. We get to see the other side of the coin.

Ravi, I certainly appreciate the effort and resources that go into creating this and other technology (by the Chinese or otherwise). My intention with this site is to promote products that enhance the way we live while preserving the resources we all share, and that includes time and health.

My sensitivity to retailers who undercut MSRP is that it hurts the marketing programs set out by companies like Stromer. They aren't just pocketing the extra money from sales, that goes into expansion, research and development and branding. By undercutting prices like this, many retailers who follow the rules may struggle to stay in business and offer bikes like the ST1.

It's not fair to say that without a discount one may not be able to afford an ebike. They may not be able to afford one specific bike but there are many budget electric bikes available for well under $2K (even less than the reduced prices mentioned here).

I'm not condemning anyone but I want to be clear about the trade offs. Recognizing a space as being "unproven" should garner even more support for paying a higher premium. These companies are struggling to reach economies of scale and stabilize themselves. Indeed, a consumer may be taking a risk as an early adopter but this is a separate issue. Even when companies do reach a level of high profitability and slow investment in development I think it is a great thing that they will be rewarding their owners and share holders (as Apple and other companies do) with profits so that they may continue to see worth in investing in the next positive space.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Court,
We appreciate this space where people can discuss about ebikes. All credit goes to you for that. Thank you for that.

I'll take the heat if my personality exudes some sort of fixation on the cost of ebikes
Every human goes through a phase and bikes are much better than any gas car on any day. You know it better than anyone else.

Except some good retailers like Chris, Brett or Renee, most retailers simply don't care about the bikes, green ebiking culture or the technology. They don't want to know all the good stuff.
It will be a win-win for both the industry and the environment if more people start ebiking but it won't happen if the prices are sky-high. Its like catch 22.
Affordable bikes ($1.5K) are just a joke. Most of them wouldn't hold up for 6 months if used on a daily basis.

As someone who has lived in Asia for 25 years, its a different reality out there.
More ebikes= more motors=more batteries= more employees= more sales managers= more retailers and eventually more jobs. If we are just focused on retailers, that's one issue. It reminds me of auto dealers vehemently opposing Tesla's direct dealership. Profits will come, business will grow but asking for $1k markup on a $2k bike is not going to help ebike industry.

This is how $4200 Ohm bicycles are manufactured in Asia and their R&D is done in Taiwan.

Don't get me wrong. Your site provides an excellent space for many different kinds of people and above all, Len is an old guy and he can't or will not put any other retailer at faux pas. He is not going to go all out on ebikes. But his shop can be of tremendous help to many people. Students, mid class people, many many others. If I were to let go of my Jumper and keep a City Commuter, so be it.

I'll just end with this note. Ebikes have two aspects. One is business and the other is environment sustainability. Imagine if Khan Academy dint exist, MIT open courseware dint exist, TED talks dint exist and knowledge was locked up under the umbrella of premium, investment, intellectualism etc. One has to have a private tutor (dealer) to access these things... that would be a terrible loss.
Similarly, if ebikes are just business commodity, environment sustainability will take a hit. As you said, it is a trade off, either way.

Life has strange ways, it always tries to balance out.

 

[John2911]

This is an interesting discussion. I just want to add that we are still in the dark ages about e-bikes. I have been watching to spot an e-bike on the road around here. I see dozens of bikes on the road every day and in our local parks, and I have seen exactly ONE e-bike in all the months I have been watching for them. Just one! We have probably 20 bike shops close to me, and only one bike shop carries any e-bikes at all. This one shop happens to be the most high-end racing bike shop in this area, with high end expensive helmets, accessories, and no kids bikes, no beach cruisers, just very expensive racing bikes. Elite biking clientele. What type of e-bike do they carry? Stromer! They have one Platinum model and one Elite model, and the salesman actually sounded apologetic about having them in the store when I asked about them!! I was stunned. No other e-bike brands are for sale anywhere around here. Like e-bikes don't even exist. I had to drive over an hour to SF to test ride a few kinds.

I guess my only point is we are still clearly in the dark ages about e-bikes overall, despite great sites like this, and all the great e-bike review videos and e-bike personalities on the web. I'm sure when I get my Platinum nobody around here will have a clue what it is. Makes perfect sense for me to go with an online retailer considering this area is such an under served market.

 

[Brambor]

good point. It is similar in our state. There is no retailer with ebikes at all and I have yet to see someone on ebike.

 

[Admin]

Great thoughts all around, my opinions on ebikes have grown over the years as my perspective has widened. At one extreme there are people who bought the eZip Trailz in 2000 for $600 and are still riding it around after buying new battery packs on Amazon for ~$100 and on the other there are people spending ~$8K for the Specialized Turbo when it first launched only to see it drop ~$1,000 in under a year.

It's great that more shops are carrying these things and online retailers are expanding the reach. Regardless of environmental intentions, the business model needs to work if we want to see more products in peoples' hands. I simply believe we should let it work vs. cutting the ropes. Price is one lever but I don't see undercutting MSRP as a noble action. If someone wants to lose money by forwarding the industry then it would be great for them to buy ebikes at bulk for a discount and then donate them to underprivileged commuters.

There's at least one solid ebike that has good weight distribution, suspension, a powerful motor, assist and throttle for under $2K out there for people who want it.

 

[JoePah]

Well I'm probably the worst here... I will follow Ebay or ask the LBS how they are doing, then pounce when I find out they are liquidating or unloading stock...As a result I got 25% off my first ebike and 60% off my second ebike...
Glen it seems like you got a great deal on the Platinum, and it is very tempting. that shop seems like the place to go if you want a Stromer.

Best wishes! You probalby know this but charge your battery for 12 hours every day for the first 3 days, then once a month after that.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

There's at least one solid ebike that has good weight distribution, suspension, a powerful motor, assist and throttle for under $2K out there for people who want it.

Actually, back in Nov 2013, I was looking into this Volton and did find a lot about it after a reading couple of posts on Endless sphere. The admin/moderator of Endless sphere had detailed articles about their bikes, motor, business model etc.
I can share here for anyone who wants to read more.

Company / Design and frame being similar to ST1, they even provided links to their Chinese supplier at the bottom of the page and someone by name Chandlee also commented on it.

About the motor used in Volton bicycles.

Thoughts about offering a poor 6 month warranty.

Their business model. I am glad I didn't purchase this bike with a 6 month warranty.

If someone wants to lose money by forwarding the industry then it would be great for them to buy ebikes at bulk for a discount and then donate them to underprivileged commuters.

Actually, this is exactly what happened with Len and Schwinn electric bikes. Schwinn released their tailwind model in 2009 with a price tag of $3200. Schwinn makes a lot of pedal bikes and I don't know what they were thinking with 24V battery and 200W motor but it was priced at $3200.
More info and some hilarious comments.

In 2013, they requested Len to unload their stock because it was heavily undersold and Len has been selling their last 1000 bikes. Last when I inquired about this in March 2014, he said he has the last 100 bikes for less $500 in his store and sometimes he sells them under the name of Demo and get rid of it. Go Schwinn.

 

[JoePah]

I remember that bike

Actually, back in Nov 2013, I was looking into this Volton and did find a lot about it after a reading couple of posts on Endless sphere. The admin/moderator of Endless sphere had detailed articles about their bikes, motor, business model etc.
I can share here for anyone who wants to read more.

Company / Design and frame being similar to ST1, they even provided links to their Chinese supplier at the bottom of the page and someone by name Chandlee also commented on it.

About the motor used in Volton bicycles.

Thoughts about offering a poor 6 month warranty.

Their business model. I am glad I didn't purchase this bike with a 6 month warranty.

If someone wants to lose money by forwarding the industry then it would be great for them to buy ebikes at bulk for a discount and then donate them to underprivileged commuters.

Actually, this is exactly what happened with Len and Schwinn electric bikes. Schwinn released their tailwind model in 2009 with a price tag of $3200. Schwinn makes a lot of pedal bikes and I don't know what they were thinking with 24V battery and 200W motor but it was priced at $3200.
More info and some hilarious comments.

In 2013, they requested Len to unload their stock because it was heavily undersold and Len has been selling their last 1000 bikes. Last when I inquired about this in March 2014, he said he has the last 100 bikes for less $500 in his store and sometimes he sells them under the name of Demo and get rid of it. Go Schwinn.

View attachment 978

I remember those Schwinns.. Even in 2009 it wasn't a good choice.. And the price was crazy.. The more i read about Len the more I like him!

 

[Admin]

I hope my thoughts aren't making you guys feel bad! I appreciate your thoughts and am a thrifty shopper myself. I hope Len has some of the Schwinn ebikes in stock when I visit, I'd love to do a review (it's a piece of history after all!)

Tomorrow I'm going in for some LEVA training on electric bikes and today I got to review some M55 electric bikes that range from $16K to $38.5K (talk about a tall pricetag) but they're limited edition, kind of like art.

 

[John2911]

I sure appreciate your points, Court. (And all your video reviews!) But I am going for the best price I can get.

 

[Aubrizzle]

I sure appreciate your points, Court. (And all your video reviews!) But I am going for the best price I can get.

I was really close to getting a stromer from Len a few months ago, but when I tried to get the guys at NYC wheels to match his price, they said that they couldn't because he is not a stromer dealer. They said to beware of his "demo bikes" that come with mileage on them already because odds are that the warrentee would not be upheld. In the end I'm happy that I didn't get the stromer from Len only because after a few test rides with the stromer and doing more research, I knew that I needed a bike with suspension and I knew that I did not want to upgrade to the platinum given the price point.
Who all on this site aside from Ravi has gotten one of lens bikes? And did it come with a warrentee? Did the bike have mileage on it when you got it?

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I was really close to getting a stromer from Len a few months ago, but when I tried to get the guys at NYC wheels to match his price, they said that they couldn't because he is not a stromer dealer. I knew that I needed a bike with suspension and I knew that I did not want to upgrade to the platinum given the price point.
Who all on this site aside from Ravi has gotten one of lens bikes? And did it come with a warrentee? Did the bike have mileage on it when you got it?

Actually, I remember the Demo Stromer bike on Len's you are mentioning about. In March he had a demo of "Elite" with ~100 mile and it was sold for $1600. In fact, at that price, I myself was willing to buy me a Stromer.

None of us on this forum have a demo model, all new ones. I have a Jumper 650B and my gf has Neo Volt.

From Lens: Vern, Dave, Magmir have Neo Carbons, Scott has 4 Neo's and oilerlord has 2 Neo's. If you purchase new, you get the warranty.