Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club
- Thread starter Stefan Mikes
- Start date
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
Brendon, I hear you.
If the same e-bike is ridden under the same conditions by two different riders;
or, two similar e-bikes are ridden on a group ride;
and one of the riders gets as much as twice range as the other one
then the range difference can only be attributed to the rider's output.
I like recollecting the last ride of this Summer we had with my brother. He was riding Trance E+ with 625 Wh battery, and I rode Vado with 604 Wh one. The significant part of the ride was off-road. After some 75 km (around 47th mile), I had to replace the first Vado battery. The plan was Jacek would replace the Trance battery, too, we would put high assistance on and return home fast by paved roads. At that moment, Jacek discovered he forgot the battery key... To be able to get back, he simply increased his own output. When we covered 75 miles sharp (120.3 km), he still had as much as 28% of the first battery left! And we rode fast (I used the Turbo mode on that segment). Thoughts?
Jacek is often asked by by casual people and friends: "How far will this e-bike go on a battery?" to which my brother makes a mysterious smile and replies: "As far as your legs will propel it..." Or, "Is it bike equipped with a throttle?" -- "Yes. It's called the pedals"
Couple years ago we had a reunion for our collegiate cycling team. One of the guys picked up a great smoking habit. At the time we had our first Bosch class 3 bike so I had him ride that on a 75 mile road ride. He ended up motorpacing us the last 10 miles at 28mph and still had about 10 miles left (according to the dash).
So many folks are concerned with "range" and it's understandable, but often not relevant to the riding they want to do. My commute to the shop is about 26kms or 17 miles, I've seen anywhere from 35-60% of battery left all due to weather/wind and my output.
Good thought Brendon. At this point this 63 year old bony ass 175 lb. rider doesn't ride more than 25 miles in a session. The battery on my Vado SL 5 can handle that trip regardless of the level of assist I use, the hills I climb or the headwind I'm riding into. I'm sure as time goes on, my rides will get longer but I suspect I'll be using assist less. Plan B will be a range extender battery-if I can find one.
Thanks.
PaD
Well-Known Member
Arlo Guthrie is a great storyteller. ’Alice’s Restaurant’ is wellknown and it’s more of a long recital than a song.
I like this performance
I just got a new motor for my 2020 Como 5.0. It, and my old motor, is on 7.1.1 firmware. The old motor was updated before replacement and the new motor came with 7.1.1. I mmediately noticed how much more difficult it was to attain higher speeds beyond 23 -24 mph, even on a level paved bike path. Getting to 28 is very very hard. Using Turbo and fastest gear. Old was faster and easier than the new. Anyone else have a new motor and notice this?
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
Sorry for revisiting this subject.
People often think of different types of resistance when considering battery range:
- Rolling resistance: Outcome of terrain type, tyre width, tread type, inflation pressure. The rolling resistance is most significant at low speeds but it is present during the whole ride
- Mechanical resistances: For example chain not oiled properly
- Air resistance: Wind direction and speed, riding position, area taken by the rider's body and equipment such as panniers, bike speed. Significant at higher speed and a large contribution to the resistance at very high speed (bike but also headwind combined).
And something often forgotten: The kinetic energy. To accelerate to given speed, we need to provide energy equal to
Kinetic energy change = 1/2 *m * DeltaV^2, where m is the total mass and DeltaV is the speed increase.
Meaning, if we want to accelerate to high speed, we need to use our leg power and battery charge to "charge" our total mass on the bike with kinetic energy. Whenever we have to brake, the potential energy gained is irreversibly lost in our brakes as dissipated heat.
That's why an urban commuting cyclist cannot predict the battery range at all because he or she cannot predict how many times the bike will have to slow down or stop. (Brendon commutes very fast so the kinetic energy factor is significant in his case).
PaD
Well-Known Member
You are not completely wrong
In my case we could say my range concern is not relevant to the daily riding I do. Usually I don’t charge to more than 80% and rarely go below 30% with my 600Wh battery.
BUT... my range concern is relevant to the riding I WANT TO do. My longest ride ( last summer) was 80km. I had plans for longer rides this summer but it didn’t work out for me. Still want to make longer rides and know that I have a margin so I can go into sport mode if I get tired or hit headwind or anything.
GuruUno
Well-Known Member
My 2 cents.
I'd not like to experience "range anxiety", as I did as an early adopter with a 2013 For Focus Electric.
Sure, in the middle of the winter, turn on the seat warmers, the defrosters, the headlights, and the range of 90 miles is cut in 1/2.
That's the way is WAS.
This is 2020, 7+ years later, and although Elon Musk is promising better range with 'his' equipment, it is when WE will have that luxury.
Not may of us care about doing more than 40 or 50 miles with our e-bikes, but in time, as we build up our endurance and have the capability, it's a comfortable feeling to know that it's one thing less to have to worry about.
My 2 cents.
I'd not like to experience "range anxiety", as I did as an early adopter with a 2013 For Focus Electric.
Sure, in the middle of the winter, turn on the seat warmers, the defrosters, the headlights, and the range of 90 miles is cut in 1/2.
That's the way is WAS.
This is 2020, 7+ years later, and although Elon Musk is promising better range with 'his' equipment, it is when WE will have that luxury.
Not may of us care about doing more than 40 or 50 miles with our e-bikes, but in time, as we build up our endurance and have the capability, it's a comfortable feeling to know that it's one thing less to have to worry about.
My 2 cents.
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Excellent point re urban commuting, my main mode of Como riding. Makes sense.
Stealph
New Member
Yes I'm so happy having the 2nd battery now. Just as you said, it really is pretty quick and easy to pull over and change the battery. I forgot who asked but I did use the 2nd battery without a cover (as I was waiting the 2 weeks for it to arrive
I just cleaned it after every ride and made sure not to ride it/ have it exposed during downpours.So what was the verdict on when to charge. Do you guys top off after each ride...Charge but stop the charge when it is around 80% or just plug it in after a ride and let it recharge? I remember reading different school of thoughts of this earlier...now that I have a 2nd battery I am willing to be a little more responsible
Stealph
New Member
Whoa, yours was only $25? It took 2 weeks for me to get mine during the pandemic and at the time the LBS didn't know the price...they said it was about $85. is there a link somewhere..now I feel I was robbedWe are not made equal, BarryOr equally healthy. Would you guess why I bought my e-bikes?
Yes, it is an extra item for US$25.
@Ebiker53:
Not sure if you could ride without the cover. Certainly it wouldn't look good. Besides, I am of the opinion batteries should be rotated as it gives both greater longevity.
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
Yes I'm so happy having the 2nd battery now. Just as you said, it really is pretty quick and easy to pull over and change the battery. I forgot who asked but I did use the 2nd battery without a cover (as I was waiting the 2 weeks for it to arrive
So what was the verdict on when to charge. Do you guys top off after each ride...Charge but stop the charge when it is around 80% or just plug it in after a ride and let it recharge? I remember reading different school of thoughts of this earlier...now that I have a 2nd battery I am willing to be a little more responsible
There's another thread that has best battery practices. I charge after every ride as I ride the bike 5 days a week so sitting with a full charge for a day isn't a big deal. I charge till all 5 lights aren't lit anymore. The last few percent take some time to top off.
Stealph
New Member
Thanks for the tip, I'll look for that thread. Very cool, that is basically what I have been doing all along as I'm also riding it every day. This is by far my favorite purchase all year.
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
Congrats! The more you ride the better it gets! Make sure to swing by the shop every 1k miles or so, the chain needs to be inspected on these bikes. Some users replace every 1k miles, I've got about 2k on mine and it's time to replace. Cassette and brake pads are also areas of increased wear as you'll ride more than you think!
Stealph
New Member
Yup, I have a new cassette on order and recently got brake pads replaced. Unfortunately during a greenway ride at about 1300 miles my chain mysteriously broke. Fortunately I was not to far from my car... They inspected everything but could not tell why it did that.
They ended up replacing the chain but had to combine two chains to fit the size of the Como ebike.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
@Stealph: You can use Mission Control, Diagnostics, Battery to see how many charge cycles have been registered in your original battery. Try to ride more often on the new battery than on the original one, and rotate them sometimes or when necessary to increase the range. At some time both batteries will reach a similar number of charging cycles. Such practice will help making both batteries live long.
Now: It would be ideal to keep each battery charge between 20 and 80% but if you ride for big distances or using Turbo support mainly, just recharge both batteries as you wish. Batteries are there to be used
(If you don't plan winter riding, keep the batteries in some storage at room temperature, the best at 60% charge, and give both of them a short charge once in a month.)
Good to know you can ride without the battery cover. Mind sharing a picture?
Now: It would be ideal to keep each battery charge between 20 and 80% but if you ride for big distances or using Turbo support mainly, just recharge both batteries as you wish. Batteries are there to be used
(If you don't plan winter riding, keep the batteries in some storage at room temperature, the best at 60% charge, and give both of them a short charge once in a month.)
Good to know you can ride without the battery cover. Mind sharing a picture?
Stealph
New Member
Very cool, I will adopt this battery practice!@Stealph: You can use Mission Control, Diagnostics, Battery to see how many charge cycles have been registered in your original battery. Try to ride more often on the new battery than on the original one, and rotate them sometimes or when necessary to increase the range. At some time both batteries will reach a similar number of charging cycles. Such practice will help making both batteries live long.
Now: It would be ideal to keep each battery charge between 20 and 80% but if you ride for big distances or using Turbo support mainly, just recharge both batteries as you wish. Batteries are there to be used
(If you don't plan winter riding, keep the batteries in some storage at room temperature, the best at 60% charge, and give both of them a short charge once in a month.)
Good to know you can ride without the battery cover. Mind sharing a picture?
@Stefan Mikes Unfortunately I didn't snap a pic of the battery without cover. I'll do this if I ever end up removing the cover again...
Brendon@OEB
Well-Known Member
That means the didn't use an e bike chain. Not a big deal, but it's best to use e bike spec'd chains to avoid any sort of conversation if something fails. No cause for concern, just food for thought next time around. I like KMC stuff, but Shimano is fantastic too.
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