Specialized ROLL Hub Conversion - Q&A

[Dewey]

sorry I think most every contributor on this board is better at soldering than me. You should have seen my delight when I soldered XT-90 connectors onto my power wires, turned it on, and it worked, I was like Gene Wilder in Young Frankenstein...”it’s alive”! Imagine my joy when back in 2005 I got cable internet and had to teach myself how to hook up a home router. Most of what I know has been learned through trial, error, and a lot of swearing

ask me about the time they tried to teach me welding in shop and I burned through everything I touched. My Dad who was a carpenter/joiner despaired of me...

 

[Browneye]

I found a local guy that will replace them all for me for $75. He just can't guarantee it will work. LOL
For a warranty replacment he suggested they might simply exchange the motor core - that would be nice. But it takes 24 hours for them to respond, so a back and forth email exchange can take a week. Oh dear.

The closest I got was replacing all the gauge motors in the dash of a 2004 Duramax pickup. You have to disassemble the dash, remove the instrument panel board, de-solder the stepper motors, and replace them all. Good time to replace led lights too. Guess who makes the motors??? SWATCH WATCH!! And it worked!

I'll likely get tired of waiting on Greenergy and either replace them my self, or have my local guy do it.

 

[Browneye]

Okay...motor is tested to work and ready. Picking it up at 4pm today. Y'all can wait with me, baited breath, if it's going to work in the bike or not.

He did find one bad hall sensor - but in order to get one out you have to unsolder them all, so they simply replace them all. The sensors are like a couple of bucks each, have three contact prongs that insert through the control board and are soldered in. As I understand it, since these are brushless motors, a 'sensored controller' pulses electricity to the motor windings in sequence which drives the motor. These 'hall sensors' tell the controller where to apply the power. Evidently it's not that uncommon for them to go bad. Wifey felt bad cuz she thought she broke it, but my guess is one simply failed. They are about the size of a large match-head.

I'm a little disappointed in the backup provided by Greenergy, the supplier of the kit. I contacted them two weeks ago when the failure occured, and while they have emailed back, they promised to have state-side support contact me to troubleshoot and send necessary parts. Evidently they cannot provide an external email address due to amazon policy, so everything goes thru them. Since they are half way around the globe, there's a 12 hour delay in response. And the US phone number provided is not answered, not even a voice mail machine. It's very frustrating.

The seller lists that same hub by itself for sale on Amazon for $178. It's not a terrible lot of money, I would just buy one, but gee, they do offer a warranty, and they should be willing to support their product. So far that hasn't happened. I would have ordered one two weeks ago if I thought I would get it in a few days, replace the motor guts in the hub - cuz it's laced onto the bike wheel, and move on with our lives. But NOOOOOO....

Here are hall sensors and what the motor looks like inside, the pcboard with the sensors soldered in:

The pcboard inside the motor, tied to the windings, - there are 3 sensors each with 3 wires connecting them.

The internal windings of the hub motor.

 

[Browneye]

No joy.

Shipping the whole kit back to them on Monday - test, replace, whatever. Just send me parts that work.
Fortunately, they are saying their warranty center in NV is where to ship, and they have parts there. We'll see.

That new Giant Amiti is looking better all the time.

 

[stanmiller]

No joy.

Shipping the whole kit back to them on Monday - test, replace, whatever. Just send me parts that work.
Fortunately, they are saying their warranty center in NV is where to ship, and they have parts there. We'll see.

That new Giant Amiti is looking better all the time.

I wouldn't send it back. Give an honest, to-the-point, short review at Amazon. Explain that the motor quit after 500 miles and the difficulty contacting Greenergia and sorting out the logistics of replacing parts and/or the kit.

Then buy a factory eBike for your wife.

You could make the Roll a project bike. Pick up a new 500W SWX02 ( G020.500.DC ) motor, cassette model

BAFANG 48V 500W Brushless Rear Hub Motor Only No Wheel EU Duty Free Ebike DIY | eBay

BAFANG Sprocket 44T 46T 48T 52T BBS01 BBS02 BAFANG Chainwheel Mid Drive Motor. Bafang Mid Drive Motor. Variable 1T2 Cable Speed Shift Gear Sensor for Bafang eBike Mid Drive Motor Kits. 48V 750W Bafang Electric Bicycle BBS02B Mid-drive Motor Conversion Kit DIY Ebike.

www.ebay.com

Buy a set of 12ga spokes and nipples and re-lace the wheel with the new hub.

Or, assuming the factory Roll wheel is 36 hole, buy compatible spokes and re-lace the factory wheel with the new hub.

This bike becomes your spare for guests.

 

[Browneye]

I wouldn't send it back. Give an honest, to-the-point, short review at Amazon. Explain that the motor quit after 500 miles and the difficulty contacting Greenergia and sorting out the logistics of replacing parts and/or the kit.

Then buy a factory eBike for your wife.

You could make the Roll a project bike. Pick up a new 500W SWX02 ( G020.500.DC ) motor, cassette model

BAFANG 48V 500W Brushless Rear Hub Motor Only No Wheel EU Duty Free Ebike DIY | eBay

BAFANG Sprocket 44T 46T 48T 52T BBS01 BBS02 BAFANG Chainwheel Mid Drive Motor. Bafang Mid Drive Motor. Variable 1T2 Cable Speed Shift Gear Sensor for Bafang eBike Mid Drive Motor Kits. 48V 750W Bafang Electric Bicycle BBS02B Mid-drive Motor Conversion Kit DIY Ebike.

www.ebay.com

Buy a set of 12ga spokes and nipples and re-lace the wheel with the new hub.

Or, assuming the factory Roll wheel is 36 hole, buy compatible spokes and re-lace the factory wheel with the new hub.

This bike becomes your spare for guests.

You read my mind. The Amiti is really nice - should be here next week.

 

[Dewey]

The Amiti is really nice - should be here next week.

Post here your wife’s impressions, I value reading rider opinions.

 

[Pop]

Amazing what a turn your post took! Sorry you have had those problems.
I have not been on the forum for a while but I too converted a Roll Sport. I chose the mid-drive Bafang 500W motor.
Because of the weather on the BC coast have not had much use of it since the conversion late last Fall but with the bit I have ridden it I am very satisfied.
It is maybe not as "smooth" running as my Rad City but the frame and structure of the bike make for a comfortable ride and it feels like it has a bit more "grunt" than the Rad.
Would post pics from the build but can't find what I did with them. I posted them on here last Fall so they might be around.
Anyway, good luck with your mechanical issues.

 

[Browneye]

What is most frustrating is that while there seems to be thousands of these things around the globe, there just wasn't a good way to get good troubleshooting locally. I could just keep throwing parts at it, but gee, you order, spend your $$, and then WAIT. Great.

I finally got a call from Greenergy in Nevada - an odd hour, like 5pm yesterday, wasn't present to answer. Called back later and of course no answer. Oh well, sending their kit to them to sort out. I would even be willing to buy replacement parts if I knew exactly what was wrong.

The error is now consistently Er9 - 'phase abnormality', which they say is the wiring. Emkay...where to get new wiring???? I plugged the controller directly into the hub leads - no joy. After dinking around with it for hours I lose interest. LOL Would rather just go ride.

You'll probly be fine - lots of bikes with these, even new ones. If it was a Aventon I could just leave it at the dealer to troubleshoot, let them throw parts at it. There aren't that many components to the whole thing - it shouldn't be hard to isolate the failure. I just don't have spares to try out on it. Shops won't even look at a bike you didn't buy from them.

I would caution anybody about what you'll do or how you'll fix it if it does break. Same for mail-order bikes...you're more or less on your own.

 

[Browneye]

Well now after all this time, and after shipping the parts off today to Greenergy to their Nevada 'tech support' address, I finally got a call from them.
Them: "We have two options - we can fix or you can fix yourself". Really good English.
Me: "How would I fix it myself?"
Them: We could ship you the motor core and you can change it out.
Me: I've already packed and shipped it today.
Them: Oh well, it's better that way. We'll fix, test, and ship back to you.

Well gee, I would have done that weeks ago. Instead I spent $100 shipping parts back and forth and paying a guy to fix failed hall sensors, and it still has the same error code. Now they're sure it's the hub-drive itself. I don't know if they fix them or replace them, but either way is fine with me. In the meantime I went out and dropped a couple of grand for another bike.

Dear god help me.

 

[Browneye]

Wow, another two weeks...
After a couple of emails I got confirmation they replaced the motor core and are shipping the kit back. Well wuddaya know!!

Still lots of juice in that battery pack.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is a terrible feeling to own more than one e-bike Chris; it is hard to love two or more of them. It is how I really feel.

 

[Browneye]

It is a terrible feeling to own more than one e-bike Chris; it is hard to love two or more of them. It is how I really feel.

And now we have FOUR of them. Oh dear, what to do what to do. LOL

Tracking says my parts will arrive today. Sure glad we don't depend on that bike for commuting or regular transportation. I would caution anybody about mail-order bikes and ebike conversions. It's all great when they work, but if they don't you're on your own.

 

[Browneye]

Well now the saga continues with the Roll. The repair shop in Nevada, sounds like a contract repair station, but they do sound Asian. At least they know how to email and text.
They called today as the repaired unit was being delivered by UPS, to tell me they think they forgot to send the motor cable extension. Yup. Okay fine, can send it or one or whatever.

There is definitely a new motor installed in the old wheel assembly. Dropped it into the frame, connected the controller and pas, and voile! IT'S ALIVE! The led screen is all good, all the settings, throttle, great.
So I connect the installed PAS on the crank to the controller and it doesn't light up. In fact, it doesn't work anymore. So I've asked them to send me one of those too. Can you remove the sensor out of the bracket? Or do you have to disassemble the bottom bracket?

Anyway, I can buy a new pas for $15, but probly slow-boat from China, if they're even shipping.

I washed my hands. LOL

 

[Browneye]

I am very pleased that they have honored their warranty and repaired the hub motor to work. Even with a missing cable and a failed sensor, I figure eventually it will Roll again (punn intended LOL). But the WAIT. Oh my, the waiting and waiting.

In the meantime she is really enjoying her new bike. It's easy to ride and works great. It's pretty much all we have left for fun with this virus lock-down. At least we can go for a bike ride.

 

[Browneye]

Great news - the Roll lives! Or rolls, or whatever...
When I got back from my 23mile mtb ride - a whole 'nother story - I felt like tinkering with the 'white elephant' to see if I could get it going.

First I took the crank PAS sensor off the bracket - it's one of those with a led indicator lamp on it. I remember from before that when the bike is powered up that little light lights up. I took it off the bracket, there are two teeny sized screws...it just does nothing. If I connect the left-side mini PAS and spin it clockwise the motor fires right up.

So I took the crank arm off the left side and found out you can remove the center core of the sensor so it fits over the round through-axle of the bottom bracket. Now it would fit over that lip leaving room to put the crank arm back on without crushing it. It doesn't engage with the bottom-bracket bearing ring, but it stays put with the cable. I fully expect it self disintegrate over time. I ordered a replacement for the 12-magnet ring on the right side, it will be more durable once I get one that works.

Anyway, button'd 'er all back up, put the tire back on the rim, tidied up all the wires and it rides just like it always did. I actually think this motor is quieter than the previous one.

So now we have four ebikes but can only ride two at a time. Out of my 23 miles today on the TrancePro, about 5 of it was road, getting to the trail. I locked the suspension out and just rode it like a road bike and it did very well, very easy and comfortable to ride. It's a little more hunched over than I like, but it still does a few miles very easily. With a more road-oriented front tire it would be very do-able on the road. I should sell my Explore and the Roll Re-Dux, and just keep the other two. We are in deep now.

Now 5 weeks all told waiting for parts and trying to troubleshoot and fix this one. A good thing it's not her commuter.

 

[Pop]

Well done!

 

[stanmiller]

Great to see the Roll… Rock'n again!

Between three bikes we have over 3500 miles on Greenergy/Bluenergy kits, and so far, no electronic or motor failure. That said, the wheel from the original Bluenergy kit gave out after 2500 miles (excessive spoke and nipple breakage).

Over the weekend I moved the motor to a Rhino Lite XL Rim.

Sun Ringle Rhyno Lite XL Rim 26" | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

Using the Bluenergy kit rim as a template to guide spoke placement in the Rhino rim.




All three bikes now have built wheels. Two with SunRingle Rhino rims and the third an AlexRims Adventure2.

Alex Adventure 2 TRS Rim 26" with Machined Sidewall | Tree Fort Bikes

www.treefortbikes.com

The Townie was the only bike with a pre-built wheel kit. The other two were motor-only kits.

Truing and tuning the Adventure2 rim for the Townie.

 

[creativepart]

@Browneye, thanks for the review on the SP Roll. I'm about to start a similar build on a Specialized Crosstrail Sport Disc.

Last December I purchased a Blix Vika + electric bike. It's a 20" wheel, folding bike and I really enjoy it. I've put 800+ miles on it in this year and ride it most days to a park for a hike in the woods.

Anyway, I have the 2018 Crosstrail Sport and thought it would be a good project for 2021. I'm in the process of getting all the various OEM specs of the Crosstrail before starting to spec out the build. I too am thinking Bfang rear hub motor. My Vika + is 500w rear hub nominal with 750w max and it's a 48v 14 amp hour battery. It has a top speed of 25 mph (40 KPH) and that's kind of the minimum I'd want on this build. But I'm looking at 28 mph for a spec.

I'm really glad I spent a year with another electric bike, learned what I like about it and what is not my favorite and put some real miles on it. That helps inform my goals for the build.

Thanks for the inspiration and I'll check back if I run into more questions.

 

[Browneye]

That one might be a candidate for a Bafang mid-drive.
Not sure what shipping times are like from China these days. The Bluenergy and Greenergie companies seem to be the best direct source. The latter sells on Amazon as well, and then you have their backing should it fail to arrive. The former is on AliExpress.
Good luck and let us know if you start a new thread for your build.