Sondors Fact Finding. Due Diligence. Scrutiny.

one4torque said:
part deux... the bit about risk dealing direct with china is unfounded from my experience..... you can buy direct (I have for yrs for remote control car stuff, and now ebike stuff) for low low pricing.... and I've had very good success with fast shipping and expected quality. The notion that china has bad quality/service is not applicable these days after the massive ind revolution china has made in the past 20 yrs....... if you have ever been to beijing, it is every bit as "modern chic" as NY, LA, ETc... etc...... the us ebike re-sellers will have to deal with lower margins as people understand the power of buying direct from the mfr of these low priced goods.
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I agree, buying direct (from China) can have it's advantages... but have you tried to return anything?? Or, do you just buy another and hope the next one is better??
 
Scmike::: good point... I would not try to return an item. Customs shipping etc would be sketchy.
The risk reward equation works for me. Very very low cost. If item 1 fails buy a second.
 
did he ever give the bikes to charity that he promised, I may have missed that?

or was that bike one that was heading to one of the first wave supporters who are STILL waiting?
 
Don't know don't care. Its not relevant to the thread. To be honest maybe its time to delet this whole thread. It serves zero purpose and no other ebike has a scrutiny thread.
 
Bikeguy said:
Don't know don't care. Its not relevant to the thread. To be honest maybe its time to delet this whole thread. It serves zero purpose and no other ebike has a scrutiny thread.
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1) It seems that quite a few bikes have not been delivered (and/or refunds have not been processed)
2) There is an outstanding lawsuit (effectively Agency 2.0 subsidized bike purchasers to the tune of $600K)
3) There are defective bikes in circulation with no way to enforce the implied and stated warranty
4) The company does not carry product liability insurance.
5) There are many other outstanding issues.

If this effort was legitimate, and if Storm had clean hands, there would be no scrutiny.
 
Bikeguy said:
Don't know don't care. Its not relevant to the thread. To be honest maybe its time to delet this whole thread. It serves zero purpose and no other ebike has a scrutiny thread.
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I'd disagree, this thread is about scrutiny of the bike and the man. questions about bike deliveries (or lack thereof is exactly what this thread was created for. since you cant defend these issues, you want the thread removed.

I'm glad you got your bike, but it seems a lot of people didn't, none at all in my country. Its not reasonable to put Ivars the fraudster on a pedestal when there are people out there still waiting on bikes or refunds, not to mention batteries, displays and related refunds.

Oh and what did happen to the bikes that were promised to charities... what kind of a bastard would rip off a charity?.. (I don't know the answer to that question.. BUT "Ivar" few good ideas :)
 
wa5 said:
none at all in my country.
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Basically "crowd funding", at least in this instance, is a marketing method which bypasses all the normal distribution structure necessary to support an ongoing business, and support the product. The phrase, "you get what you pay for" comes to mind. It's unfortunate that some people paid for bikes they may never see. Personally, I believe that's an example of commercial malfeasance. There's an implied contract (no matter the disclaimers) that the customer and the vendor have entered into a contract to supply/purchase a product at a specific price.

Example: a reputable car manufacturer starts a crowd funding campaign to sell a "new" concept car for $5,000. 10,000 funders pay and the car is never delivered, the reason was the concept couldn't be completed and no one received a refund. What do you believe the response would be?

Court J.
 
after more thought on this and seeing the backers that got nothing.... I'm getting the feeling the people who actualy got bikes (at a low price), at the expense of those who got nothing....... perhaps that's how the math works...... pyramid scheme...... a few get the deal, and a few get hosed?
 
I really hope Sondors does do the right thing by all his supporters, but the longer it goes without backers getting bikes or bucks, the less hopeful I am that all backers will get satisfaction.. a pity, as the bike seems reasonable for the money.
 
wa5 said:
I really hope Sondors does do the right thing by all his supporters, but the longer it goes without backers getting bikes or bucks, the less hopeful I am that all backers will get satisfaction.. a pity, as the bike seems reasonable for the money.
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What percentage of bikes have been delivered? Can anybody really answer this question? Do we even know the total # of bikes ordered or built??
 
Can really only go on the number of people having a whinge on the IGG page, and the facebook pages. I'd guess the majority of US backers have received their bikes. but there still appear to be some that havnt... if internet claims are to be believed (and for goodness sake, who would lie on the internet :) )...

SondorCo did make a pretty big thing about donating bikes to worthwhile charitable causes, perhaps he has done that and simply kept quiet about it, wouldn't think any marketing types would let that happen though, they'ed be screaming it from the roof tops.

Would have rathered see a few bikes go to good causes than to some cut rate Oprah show for nothing more than marketing purposes.
 
wa5 said:
Can really only go on the number of people having a whinge on the IGG page, and the facebook pages. I'd guess the majority of US backers have received their bikes. but there still appear to be some that havnt... if internet claims are to be believed (and for goodness sake, who would lie on the internet :) )...

SondorCo did make a pretty big thing about donating bikes to worthwhile charitable causes, perhaps he has done that and simply kept quiet about it, wouldn't think any marketing types would let that happen though, they'ed be screaming it from the roof tops.

Would have rathered see a few bikes go to good causes than to some cut rate Oprah show for nothing more than marketing purposes.
Click to expand...

Maybe Sondors donated the bikes that haven't been delivered to his "customers/clients" ... Certainly, IGG must know or can find out how many bikes were ordered... So what % of bikes (assuming they don't self destruct in the next 5 minutes) delivered would be considered a successful CF campaign... 50, 75, 95% ?? Let's say 95% is a good number... then only 5% (of 7000?) didn't get their bikes... that's only 350 x $700 or $245,000 gone missing...or donated to charity...
 
It may be easier saying 95 percent of bikes being delivered is acceptable, if you are part of that 95 percent... I'm thinking if you are one of the unfortunate people who hasn't received a bike or a refund, you may have a different view... :)

even excluding places where the bikes were allegedly turned away by customs.... there seem to be a few people in the US that havnt got their berks or is it pikes ....? .. I believe that any reasonable person would understand that there can be problems with any venture and most people have been more than patient... my feeling that problems with more than one percent of the bikes either warranty or non delivery is unacceptable.. I sell used/ recycled car parts and my return rate due to warranty, change of mind, cancelled orders by other trade customers is well under one percent, and that's with thousands of different used parts and probably a hundred different model variants.
 
Yes there are still a few peope have not recieved their bikes. Most of those are in Wave #2 and those are to be shipped by the end of October. As for warranty what the FB group has seen is that the Sondors team have been sending out replacement parts to those that have had trouble.

Great bike for the money and looking forward to the next one to arrive some time in Feb.
 
I wouldn't want to pay in advance for a bike where the supplier has a lawsuit from his previous partnership. He made some money, hopefully, on the successful Kickstarter. But if a court says (worst case) he owes a half million to Agency and Chris, then what? Things may have changed, but since all we know is what we knew in April, it doesn't sound good. I guess we can hope Olenik, Hopp, and Sondors have reached some kind of accord. If so, maybe they should say something. If not, gee?
 
TBH I don't care about the lawsuit don't care about if he made money or not. All I care about is getting a bike. I recieved the 1st one and will more than likely recieve the 2nd one. All post like this do is fear monger. You did not back it the 1st time and chances are your not backing it this time so why comment. Whats it to you if we get bikes or not. History has shown us all that Storm kept is word and delivered an ebike that was as advertised. (some here will argue that fact but they are more than likely compeditors). Unlike the Wave bike that has yet to deliver and cut back on some specs on their bike. All they did was turn a page in a catalogue from Alibaba. The Wave campaign could not even do that right. The rest of the hype or bad press turned out to be nothing. Just some very mentaly disturbed people for the UK and Austrailia with nothing better to do with thier time but troll.
 
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