Slowly figuring it out - slow down, stop touching the throttle

[tomjasz]

Al, is that a GD or a DD hub?

 

[AHicks]

It's a geared hub. Looks like a 500w Bafang, but it's got an Espin label on it, so it's likely a knock off. Learned my lesson on DD long time ago. For me, I found it completely gutless for the majority of my riding, even with a 35a controller and 1500w motor. -Al

 

[tomjasz]

completely gutless

Yes I’ve read that often from you. I just don’t find it so. But I use that ugly display coupled with a Grin controller and can nearly spin out a rear DD. If half of what I’ve read on statorade and hubsinks is true…

I promise an honest review.

BTW there are lots of Bafang mainstream motors relabeled with the sellers name cast or engraved on the motor. A notorious example was Lectric Cycles “RAD” drives that were stock BBSxx motors relabeled.

 

[AHicks]

Yes I’ve read that often from you. I just don’t find it so. But I use that ugly display coupled with a Grin controller and can nearly spin out a rear DD. If half of what I’ve read on statorade and hubsinks is true…

I promise an honest review.

BTW there are lots of Bafang mainstream motors relabeled with the sellers name cast or engraved on the motor. A notorious example was Lectric Cycles “RAD” drives that were stock BBSxx motors relabeled.

Wandering off topic, but regarding the DD's, I believe if I were commuting, maintaining 15mph+, with a minimum of starting and stopping, THEN it might be an attractive drive. Statorade and hubsinks aren't seen much on geared hubs, but a definite bonus when it comes to the higher speeds the direct drives are used.

My bet is I'll never know if the Espin motor is a rebranded Bafang. These type motors run like a champ, and will very likely outlast me! They seem to be really holding up well - unless they're abused..... -Al

 

[tomjasz]

They seem to be really holding up well - unless they're abused..... -Al

I think many of us don’t realize how big Bafang actually is. I’d bet on it being a Bafang. Sturdy motors as you say when not abused. I think that’s a mantra for all lower wattage motors especially BBSxx 500W and below.

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

I'm a senior and I'm out to enjoy the ride, not getting from Point A to Point B. Mine is in kilometers and I limit my downhills to 30 KPH, or 18 MPH. When I cruise I'm at 20 KPM or 12.5 MPH. I have no interest in getting hurt.

 

[JES2020]

I came to a conclusion during today's ride - I was going too fast.

I was enjoying the ride too much, hitting the throttle to maintain a fairly quick speed. Today, I decided to slow it down, keep the assist on, but, keep my hands off the throttle.

I enjoyed the ride a whole lot, got more exercise, and used up almost no battery. Previously, every time I saw a hill, I hit the throttle, telling myself - I can't pedal that.
Well, at a slower speed, in a lower gear, yeah, I can pedal it.

My 20mph-ish ride is now a 12mph ride.

I hear ya! I enjoy sneaking up on wildlife like on cat paws.
Then again I also enjoy feeling the wind blow my hair back at 30 MPH !
Finally, I REALLY enjoy that my e-bike can do BOTH !

 

[Clyde]

I started cycling less back in 1977 when my folks finally relented and helped me out with half of a Honda XR 75, and since then I've had lots of little motorcycles (all 250cc or under). Sold off my Ninja 250 a few years back, and built my BBSHD bike in June of 2020 to ride to work and on rail trails. I messed around with the throttle a bit for the first few weeks, but after the raging 29hp of the Ninja it was underwhelming at best, and I quickly forgot it was there aside from a few mishaps while moving the bike around. Ended up detuning the HD to 25A, and uninstalling the throttle (although it stays in my emergency kit in case I break a pedal). This makes it really simple to switch between class 1 for trails (speed limited to 20 mph PAS) and class 3 (up the limit to 28 mph PAS for commuting), and keeps the HD cool and happy. I find that I run at assist 2-3/5 in the mornings on my way in to work for speed and ease, then drop to assist 1-2/5 on my way home, or when riding with friends on burger-powered bikes. Average speed is about 10 mph, and I usually max out around 25 on my current gearing.

 

[JES2020]

I started cycling less back in 1977 when my folks finally relented and helped me out with half of a Honda XR 75, and since then I've had lots of little motorcycles (all 250cc or under). Sold off my Ninja 250 a few years back, and built my BBSHD bike in June of 2020 to ride to work and on rail trails. I messed around with the throttle a bit for the first few weeks, but after the raging 29hp of the Ninja it was underwhelming at best, and I quickly forgot it was there aside from a few mishaps while moving the bike around. Ended up detuning the HD to 25A, and uninstalling the throttle (although it stays in my emergency kit in case I break a pedal). This makes it really simple to switch between class 1 for trails (speed limited to 20 mph PAS) and class 3 (up the limit to 28 mph PAS for commuting), and keeps the HD cool and happy. I find that I run at assist 2-3/5 in the mornings on my way in to work for speed and ease, then drop to assist 1-2/5 on my way home, or when riding with friends on burger-powered bikes. Average speed is about 10 mph, and I usually max out around 25 on my current gearing.

Speaking of changing classes. I modded my KT to pump out 35 amps, I enjoy the extra power, but it drains the battery faster.
So I reduced the full power to less than half in the parameters. Now I can adjust how much speed I want vs battery life, simply by changing the KT parameter.
It's like having two bikes in one, a racer and a cruiser.

 

[PatriciaK]

Thank you for this! Since reading, I've been experimenting with my Espin Flow, and have been quite pleased with the results! For about 3/4 of the rolling hills I ride, PAS 1 will get me up, comfortably, without throttle, at about 6 mph, as long as I pedal (on the lowest, or next to lowest gear). For steeper inclines, I've been bumping it up to PAS 2, and it's just under 9 mph with comfortable pedaling. Stroad riding from a stop I still use throttle, and if PAS 2 is struggling on a bigger hill, I give it a little bump.

I'm a slow rider anyway, but this method works great, particularly when riding with my Luddite PM on his dinosaur bike ! I go slower, but don't have to wait as long for him to catch up .

 

[steve mercier]

Was watching a guy yesterday riding very fast. No gloves, no helmet and flip flops.
gloves are so important in direct proportion to the value of hands in day to day life.

Want to freak yourself out? Look up degloving injuries. Yikes!

One time my front wheel got lodged into the slot between a weigh scale and the road. The bike stopped but I kept going. It had dropped bars and I had no gloves on . The result was my hands skidding along the road in that low riding position with knuckles down and a bleeding road rash on all eight knuckles. Now I know why they pad the knuckles on some gloves!

 

[Avg_Joe]

@FrankR thank you again for posting this. It's a shame I need to re-read it and smack myself to remember this when riding...

This past weekend, it was quite hot and humid here. I did a ride on multi-use trails and for some reason, this entire philosophy just completely left me. I was pedaling like a madman, sweating my butt off, exhausted. I stopped about 10 mi into my ride, sat down, sipped some water, slapped myself, and the remainder of the ride was extremely pleasant, relaxing, enjoyable!

Each day this week, I've remembered to slow down, take it easy, enjoy the ride. When I get home, I tell my wife I could ride like that for hours and hours... Also relishing the lower battery usage/increased range.

 

[harryS]

I ride my regular bike, (GT Transeo 29" Hybrid) less and less, but I did ride it 19 times last year, on a pleasant woodsy 4 mile route along a little creek. It turns out I'm not happy unless I maintain the same average speed as my ebike which is about 12 mph. I need to slow it down and I might ride it more. Actually, I ebike around 14 mph solo, but with my wife it's 12 mph and we covered 2300 miles last year riding together.

Yesterday, my wife decided to ride w/o power. There's a nearby National Parks trail with Illinois prairie and a small herd of bison. It allows horses, pedestrians, and bikes, but likely no ebikes. She wanted to see how hard it would be. So we're down to 6-8 mph. but we covered 2 miles. She was riding a converted Schwinn Loop, not an easy bike to pedal even without the 10 pounds of motor/battery I put on it. I'll have to pull her old Giant 21 speed down from the attic.

By the way at 10-12 mph, I'm right at 10 wh/mile. My lighter wife is at 8 WH/mile. We don't get 480 Wh out of a 48V10AH though, Maybe 400 wh real world.

 

[m@Robertson]

...The result was my hands skidding along the road in that low riding position with knuckles down and a bleeding road rash on all eight knuckles. Now I know why they pad the knuckles on some gloves!

Totally normal behavior: You go flying and put your hands out to protect yourself from the impact. My wrists will never be the same after my t-boner from a motorist, Superman flight and ruptured duck landing. But my hands were unhurt. I wear deerskin (super soft) hardware store full finger gloves, sized a little big so I don't get fingertips squished gripping the bars. They are perfect to protect against road rash or ground-in road grit into your palms.

 

[FrankR]

Very glad this has helped some.

This has made a big difference in my enjoyment, exercise, and battery life.

 

[vincent]

when was the last time any of you rode a low power rad bike like the radmission? a lot of these companies are doing pretty good with their controllers now, pretty smooth and natural especially in a low power bike like that, so hard to judge them like that now
things are changing for the better on the cadence bikes

 

[DaveinMtAiry]

I'm a senior so my priority is a safe ride. I also found at slower speeds I can see more things I would miss. Mine is in kilometers and I limit my top speed on downhills to 30KPH which is about 18 miles per hour. Once I get to the bottom I slow down to under 20KPH which is about 13MPH and that's the speed I'm comfortable with.

I had purchased a pair of riding gloves but they were too tight, uncomfortable so I bagged them. But after reading this thread I ordered a different pair, a larger size. So thanks for that.