Slowly figuring it out - slow down, stop touching the throttle

[mschwett]

I came to a conclusion during today's ride - I was going too fast.

I was enjoying the ride too much, hitting the throttle to maintain a fairly quick speed. Today, I decided to slow it down, keep the assist on, but, keep my hands off the throttle.

I enjoyed the ride a whole lot, got more exercise, and used up almost no battery. Previously, every time I saw a hill, I hit the throttle, telling myself - I can't pedal that.
Well, at a slower speed, in a lower gear, yeah, I can pedal it.

My 20mph-ish ride is now a 12mph ride.

i found somewhat the same thing. i wrongly assumed (for various unique and understandable reasons!) that i absolutely needed a motor to safely enjoy a long hilly bike ride. gradually reduced motor usage over time and surprisingly it really doesn’t make all that much difference. that’s really the beauty of an eBike as compared to a scooter, motorcycle etc. you can customize the mix of power, and appropriate gearing allows you to vary your road speed independently of pedaling speed to account for hills, wind, etc.

a MAJOR reason many people think they need so much motor is inappropriate gearing, especially on heavy bikes.

now, if the GOAL is to go fast (for example to commmute, or keep up with very fast friends) then that’s a different story

 

[fooferdoggie]

The idea was, which is going to use more power? A fast ride will clearly use more power than a slow one, if for no other reason than increased wind resistance. I understand where if you only have a limited amount of time and you want to cover the most country possible, but that's a whole different scenario, no?

for the most part yes you use more battery so it may require a spare battery. my bulls would only get me 30 or so miles going 22mph with less assist then my trek at 15 to18mph using more assist because of the fat tires. I could get 50 miles on the trek. our tandem is different 15 or below we dont need a motor but cruising at 18.5 the motor is only using maybe 9 watts per mile its right at the cutoff so are using less power then going a little slower.

 

[theemartymac]

The idea was, which is going to use more power? A fast ride will clearly use more power than a slow one, if for no other reason than increased wind resistance. I understand where if you only have a limited amount of time and you want to cover the most country possible, but that's a whole different scenario, no?

Absolutely, and my personal use model pretty much requires a second battery due to the increased energy required. I still factor in the ability to eliminate my gas consumption by not having to cart the bike around town for those rides to be a net gain in convenience and reduction in my total carbon footprint. So overall energy used to travel farther - more often - is still far less than the alternative for my case.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Absolutely, and my personal use model pretty much requires a second battery due to the increased energy required. I still factor in the ability to eliminate my gas consumption by not having to cart the bike around town for those rides to be a net gain in convenience and reduction in my total carbon footprint. So overall energy used to travel farther - more often - is still far less than the alternative for my case.

we don't have a car so its really important for us.

 

[Cowlitz]

As for ebikes not feeling like regular bikes? I bought my Gazelle because it handles and feels like a regular bike. It's very responsive and light feeling in my opinion. There are exceptions to everything out there.

Maybe it is the company name?

 

[AHicks]

for the most part yes you use more battery so it may require a spare battery. my bulls would only get me 30 or so miles going 22mph with less assist then my trek at 15 to18mph using more assist because of the fat tires. I could get 50 miles on the trek. our tandem is different 15 or below we dont need a motor but cruising at 18.5 the motor is only using maybe 9 watts per mile its right at the cutoff so are using less power then going a little slower.

I really have no clue on the tandem, but it would seem to me that slowing down on that might result in a more relaxed ride while using less power? Same story on the other bikes. For Joe average rider out riding for the hell of it, the time taken to figure out how fast you NEED to go, vs. the speed you are used to running/want to go, will result in more miles per charge. Add in some experience gained with messing with the different PAS levels and gear choices under different conditions, and you have what I was talking about earlier, the skill to ride an e-bike efficiently - not as easy as it looks. Way beyond the skill required to ride an analog bike.

Commuting? I get it. You have the location of every bump memorized and just want to get the ride over with, whatever it takes.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I really have no clue on the tandem, but it would seem to me that slowing down on that might result in a more relaxed ride while using less power? Same story on the other bikes. For Joe average rider out riding for the hell of it, the time taken to figure out how fast you NEED to go, vs. the speed you are used to running/want to go, will result in more miles per charge. Add in some experience gained with messing with the different PAS levels and gear choices under different conditions, and you have what I was talking about earlier, the skill to ride an e-bike efficiently - not as easy as it looks. Way beyond the skill required to ride an analog bike.

Commuting? I get it. You have the location of every bump memorized and just want to get the ride over with, whatever it takes.

I tend to get 9000 miles a year and upto 250 miles a week. I know gears very well and How much distance I get and How many watts I can put out. Riding a recumbent taught me good gear management. I don't own a car or drive. I ride in all conditions and ride all hills. with and without the tandem. Since I am a spinner its far easier learning the e bike then if I was a masher. I ride my e bikes like I did a analog bike but with watts meter and HRM I know far more whats going on with my body riding by myself I push myself and bike a lot it feels great. on the tandem I cant do that and its a more relaxed ride. I know how many miles I will get when I put out so many watts. I have found where the Bosch least efficient with my watt output and speed. Now I am learning that on the trek.

 

[Roamers]

I hope I never get into over thinking it like some. Pedal at level that seems comfortable for the exertion you want. Getting tougher to pedal than you like, drop a gear or add assist. Going too slow at desired exertion, add assist. Keep an eye on battery reserve. Enjoy ride rather than obsessing over efficiency.

 

[m@Robertson]

I think gloves are important gear too!

Absolutely. You wear gloves for the crash, not the ride.

I wear deerskin work gloves from the hardware store. Super soft. Also tough enough to save my hands the one time I got hit by a car, went for a short flight and did the usual: Reached out to brace my impact with my hands. The gloves were brand spanking new and I can still wear them, with nasty circular scrape marks on the palms but they're still fine.

Biggest thing for me and my long fingers is finger length so the gloves are not pressing tight on my fingertips. Work gloves typically give me that extra finger length. The Mechanix normal gloves are great. The armored ones not so much. For me at least.

 

[m@Robertson]

Reinforcing the idea you're still learning. Speed costs energy. All else being equal, a SLOWER ride will let you travel further.

You have to remember when taking the step of judging him like that, that he's commuting. This changes everything vs. a pleasure rider. He knows how far he needs to go and he goes the same distance every day. As I do. Speed is convenience when you're a utility rider on a known-distance course. The bike has a job, as does the rider. All you need is a battery able to make the trip. Mine is charging back up in the garage beneath my office right now.

 

[AHicks]

You have to remember when taking the step of judging him like that, that he's commuting. This changes everything vs. a pleasure rider. He knows how far he needs to go and he goes the same distance every day. As I do. Speed is convenience when you're a utility rider on a known-distance course. The bike has a job, as does the rider. All you need is a battery able to make the trip. Mine is charging back up in the garage beneath my office right now.

And you seem to have missed my note? From post #26:

"Commuting? I get it. You have the location of every bump memorized and just want to get the ride over with, whatever it takes."

Further, most are NOT "commuting" on a tandem......

 

[retiredNH]

I got my first motorcycle, a Kawasaki EX500, in 1988, and my first ebike this past week. Learning to ride with a throttle was not an issue. It works just like a motorcycle, just a lot slower. As far as speed goes, I fand that assist level 1 is not quite enough, but level 2 is a little bit too fast. Riding above 15 mph without a full-face helmet or at least goggles is uncomfortable on my eyes, and because I live in Northern New England, the roads are atrocious, and a 60 lb ebike with 65 psi tires hitting even minor pavement flaws is uncomfortablly jarring.

Where in Northern New England? Here in SW NH, we have some great rides without much traffic if you stay off the numbered highways. Lots of vertical but that's what ebikes are for. We're blissfully off the tourist circuit too, so it never gets too crowded.
Let me know if you want some suggestions.

 

[m@Robertson]

And you seem to have missed my note? From post #26:

"Commuting? I get it. You have the location of every bump memorized and just want to get the ride over with, whatever it takes."

Yeah I did.

 

[Dave Rocks]

Granted, there are advantages to mid-drive, in some situations, but "natural feel" isn't one of them.

fuyume: "I got my ... my first ebike this past week."

So how would you know what the differencce in feel is between two different bike designs?

 

[fooferdoggie]

fuyume: "I got my ... my first ebike this past week."

So how would you know what the differencce in feel is between two different bike designs?

exactly a rad will never feel natural. How can it when the power does nto even kick in till you have cranked the pedals part way around? plus the push from behind feel sure does not feel like a bike.

 

[tomjasz]

Absolutely. You wear gloves for the crash, not the ride.

I wear deerskin work gloves from the hardware store. Super soft. Also tough enough to save my hands the one time I got hit by a car, went for a short flight and did the usual: Reached out to brace my impact with my hands. The gloves were brand spanking new and I can still wear them, with nasty circular scrape marks on the palms but they're still fine.

Biggest thing for me and my long fingers is finger length so the gloves are not pressing tight on my fingertips. Work gloves typically give me that extra finger length. The Mechanix normal gloves are great. The armored ones not so much. For me at least.

Because my medications make me a bleeder I ALWAYS wear Mechanix gloves. that are armored and fit well enough to wrench AND have fingertips that work on phone touch screens.

 

[fooferdoggie]

speed demon on our tandem this evening.

 

[FrankR]

I'm getting substantially more out of the battery now that I have slowed it down and left the throttle behind.
Very pleasing. Was previously a little underwhelmed about what I was observing with battery use, but now I take a nice ride and barely use any power.
Beautiful.

 

[tomjasz]

I'm getting substantially more out of the battery now that I have slowed it down and left the throttle behind.
Very pleasing. Was previously a little underwhelmed about what I was observing with battery use, but now I take a nice ride and barely use any power.
Beautiful.

Yes! My 350w motor sips battery power and I get fantastic mileage cruising in 4th gear at 12-15mph. I’m nearly completely converted to 36v and 20Ah batteries on all personal rides. I have one 48-52v hub motor left but might transition that bike as well. I have a budget 48v battery from a artery close out reseller. If that doesn’t carry me and my guests through the season I’ll likely reconfigure or sell it sooner.

I’m probably repeating this to much but it’s 21700 cells for all future batteries.

 

[AHicks]

I have a 500w bike (Espin Sport) with a KT controller for my riding here in Mi. Mostly flat country so it has plenty of power, even for me. Riding terrain is a combination of grass, single track dirt trails, and pavement. Getting 40 miles on a charge is pretty easy, even with the 14.5 ah battery. Really cool is the fact the KT controller allows me to poke that 500w motor with nearly 1000w on occasion, making for some pretty sporty performance, even though that can't be done often or for very long. 55lb weight of the bike makes it a delight to handle.

Same story though. 4th through 6th gears (of 8), running 8-14mph. PAS 1 everywhere, except for some grassy areas where we step the power up to PAS 2 due to the softer ground.