Shimano STePS

[Brambor]

I think the Shimano steps could contribute to range anxiety. Otoh I have never biked empty battery bike, mainely due to pre planning and "in flight" planning.

The Shimano steps seems to be very good on many counts. I also lil the closed shifting hub. Great for winter riding protection from the chemicals and salt.

 

[Deleted member 803]

I rode a Raleigh Shimano Steps bike with electronic shifting at a local dealer demo day. I think SRP is $3300. The bike is very light. The shifting system is integrated into the display. My brief demo noted a couple of things. The Alfine 8 internal hub did not seem to have sufficient range for those who want fairly strong assistance on hills. Electronic shifting does not occur under heavy load so if you are shifting going up a steep incline, you need to stop pedaling to complete a shift. The power of the steps motor seemed adequate but will certainly not blow anyone away. My particular demo unit had a rather abrupt on off issue as I was pedaling hard. Rather than a continuous effort the motor would suddenly shut down and then re-engage. Not sure if this was normal or a problem. The frame on the Raleigh was mediocre with average componentry save the DI2 shifting system. I'm unsure of the positioning of this product as they added a significant expense for electronic shifting to what I perceive as a middle of the road product. The battery brick is mounted on the downtube (not sure of the specs). My walkaway opinion is that Raleigh did no purposeful design for this product and the image I get is one of a "kit" project where someone simply bolted on the mid drive and Alfine DI2 to an existing frame.

Next to the Shimano Steps Raleigh were a couple of Kalkhoff bikes. The difference in engineering, fit, and finish was very obvious.

 

[J.R.]

Yes 86, the Raleigh is very much like a kit built on a frame they weren't doing anything with this year, left-overs! Otherwise why wouldn't such a big company build the bike with horizontal dropouts? You could get rid of that derailleur like chain tensioner.

 

[MLB]

How many more competitors are needed?

So far there is:

Bosch
Panasonic
Shimano
Impulse (2)
8Fun
Bafang

I might be missing some...

Bafang and 8Fun are the same thing.

It wasn't the electronic shifter not shifting under load, its the Alfine hub. You aren't supposed to shift them under load. They won't move, even pedaling alone, until the load drops to the allowable range. You can shift them at rest and at low pedal forces.

 

[Tom G]

My wife was a pretty decent road cyclist (completing high mountains in Europe and what we have in the US) until some mobility issues really curtailed her activity starting about 7 years ago. She got a new hip in April and we thought that an electric bike would help her get more active and feel better overall. She really wanted one that felt like a road bike with upright bars (can only take limited weight on her shoulders) that she could use for 1 - 2hr recreational rides in the Bay Area hills (15 - 30 mi with 1500 - 3000' elevation gain) and for commuting (about 7 mi flat ea. way). A rigid fork with not too fat tires, good hydraulic brakes, and a "real" diamond frame in the correct size were all important criteria.

She purchased a Raleigh Misceo IE about a month ago after a careful comparison to the Specialized turbo. The Raleigh was the clear winner for her - it rides much more like a 'real' bike, is considerably lighter with better weight distribution, and has much longer effective range. I thought that the Raleigh felt like riding a mid-grade touring bike, while the Specialized felt like a very fast balloon tire bike. I think that the Raleigh is easier to handle in groups of cyclists on twisty roads than the Specialized would be - Specialized has more inertia.

I agree that the Specialized does a much better job of integrating the battery into the frame, it is quiet, and the bottle mount is very nifty (a real issue on ebikes). However, the turbo has pretty low efficiency on hills which limits the range too much for our application. The Misceo also has a much shorter head tube in the size (S) we considered (120 vs 180 mm), allowing lower bars making counter-steering easier on descents. I like the simplicity of the Misceo drivetrain (no mechanical cables or shifting adjustments) and my bike work stand accommodates it easily. My wife really likes it. Yes, its drive is noisier than the Specialized hub motor, but we see that (and the stuck-on battery) as cosmetic and not fundamental like the range and handling.

 

[J.R.]

That's great @Tom G It is one sharp bike. I've been looking forward to an owner's perspective, hope you can share more on real-world range and performance.

 

[Tom G]

The Misceo performance is quite good - it is clear that it is delivering at least 200 watts to the rear wheel. My wife rode it up Old La Honda Road with me in about 22 min and I think she was pedaling at a pretty easy pace, less than about 2W/kg. I think that I could do that ride (3.3 mi @ 7%, about 1200' elevation gain) in a bit over 14 min in med or high mode when pedaling at a comfortable endurance pace of 3W/kg. 14 min is about as fast as the best bike racers in the world can go up that road.

Her range is also impressive. She did a hilly 28 mi ride today (a bit under 2 hrs) and had over 10 mi of range left. THe bike can clearly go for 2.5 hrs in medium assist mode. Here is the route (my ride earlier in the week, not on an ebike): https://www.strava.com/activities/359053297

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Shimano is upping their game with this really nice e-MTB system.

500Whr battery
electronic shifting
XT level components throughout.
Low q-factor for better handling.

More info and eye candy here:

http://ebike-mtb.com/shimano-steps-mtb-neuer-shimano-e-mtb-antrieb-vorgestellt/

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[J.R.]

Shimano is upping their game with this really nice e-MTB system.

500Whr battery
electronic shifting
XT level components throughout.
Low q-factor for better handling.

More info and eye candy here:

http://ebike-mtb.com/shimano-steps-mtb-neuer-shimano-e-mtb-antrieb-vorgestellt/

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Beautiful!!! And that bike might be ready for sale when I'm ready for a new bike, just don't know if my pocketbook will be ready.

Hey @Court @Ann M. @Tara D. Is it time for a Shimano forum now?

I went to post a thread in the Shimano Forum... There isn't one! Bosch, sure. BionX, 8Fun, sure, sure, but no Shimano Forum! No place to post Shimano news, no place to talk Shimano components. And you call yourself a bike community? CRAP! Second rate! An also-ran community! Not an oversight, a DIS!

 

[Ann M.]

Sounds like a great idea, folks

 

[Jack Tyler]

For those missed it, Court did a follow-up review of the 2016 Raleigh Misceo iE and found a number aspects more refined. 700 x 40c wheels & tires, tho'...so definitely not like the gorgeous MTB pictured above. (There's also a 2016 review of the Misceo Sport iE, more of a city commuter but without Di2 shifting or IHG.)

"STePS MTB is projected to be available to consumers from October 2016, so we expect to see it get spec’ed on a number of e-bikes that we will seen debuted at the autumn trade shows." Or so says this short article on Bike Rumor.

 

[J.R.]

@JayVee

It must be able to be tuned, especially if Stromer is thinking of using this system for it's first MTB. I've read others say hills can be an issue with the system. Disappointing!

 

[Patrick McNabb]

You can read about my issues with the STePs system here:

http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/my-new-conduit.4147/

 

[Ann M.]

JayVee, the Shimano Steps 250watt mid drive has less torque to begin with than any of the Bosch motors, 50 Nm (see stats from Court's Raleigh Misceo review); however, I agree with J.R. that tweaking how responsive the motor is, faster engagement, etc. might go a long way to create a better ride. You're fortunate to live in a town with such an amazing free loaner ebike program.

 

[Patrick McNabb]

I didn't notice any such thing, but I typically have a slow pedaling cadence...

@JayVee Would you mind taking a spin and seeing if it happens on your bike? Just flip it into HIGH on a flat, choose a low gear and pedal fast and let me know what happens! I'm curious to know if it's just me.

<<edit>> I just realized it was loaner. If you happen to borrow one again, please do a quick test. If not, no worries!

 

[TrevorB]

Wife and I have just returned from 125km overnite trip with her on Avanti Discovery E (step through with shocks). First day was 50km for 50%. On 2nd day she managed 75km with 75% of charge, most of this was on flat ground with no wind. This mileage would have been more like 150km on full charge based on first part trip (25 km on 12%) when she was cruising happily at 20km/h on eco. Due to delays the last 50km had to be done at pace ie 25km/h normal & high.

Besides enabling my wife to keep up with me, I also benefit by travelling lite on my manual bike as we use ebike as a packhorse. I can also slipstream behind her if there is head wind. Still have sweat it out uphill while she waits fresh as daisy at top. Her bike now enables us to do overnite rides with 70-100km days not a problem.

 

[TrevorB]

Weight definitely factors into it but how you ride is important. High cadence in lower gear at lower speeds means rider is doing most work. More pressure you put on pedals the more power torque sensing mid drives will deliver. On my normal bike I can easily(brisk walk) cruise at 20km/hr, 25km I'm working (jog going) and 30km/hr working hard (fast jog).

My wife is not that fit, would normally cruise at 15km/hr on normal bike and gentle rises were her limit of hill climbing.

For light to moderate weight riders <80kg, the STEPS system has no problems on hills and can produce excellent ranges at moderate cruise speeds.

I suspect the Di2 system with auto shifting may help range as bike would always be in right gear. Unfortunately we didn't have option of it, I might retrofit it to wife's bike in future. The MTBs coming out at end of 2016 with new eMTB STEPS system will definitely be offering it on derailleur drives.

 

[Scott Tucker]

Hello all. I have a Misceo for commuting and I love it. The only thing I'd like to tweek is the 19.5mph cuttoff. Not looking for 40 mph, but maybe 25-28 for those gentle downhill grades. Does anyone know if there is a way to cheat the wheel size?

 

[TrevorB]

I

Hello all. I have a Misceo for commuting and I love it. The only thing I'd like to tweek is the 19.5mph cuttoff. Not looking for 40 mph, but maybe 25-28 for those gentle downhill grades. Does anyone know if there is a way to cheat the wheel size?

You don't know how lucky you are, I dream of 20mph cutoff. My STEPs is set to Europe 25km/h (15mph) limit and it is pain in inner city traffic. Ask local shop to look into increasing it as NZ only has power limit (300W) but no speed limit yet.

 

[grench]

View attachment 7245

Got some more time on a STEPs powered bike equipped with a Shimano Alfine Di2. I'm rather fond of the Di2 (when it's set up properly), and today I finally got to try a bike on which "auto shift" was not disabled. I have to say that I'm slightly puzzled as to the usefulness of the system. When you turn on AutoShift the gears will shift in a manner that often doesn't make sense. I wonder if it's a question of configuring the system properly...

I was going up a slight incline in 4th gear with a nice cadence and I decided to switch on AutoShift just to see what it might do. Well... it jumped into the highest gear and I then was struggling to pedal! I continued riding around to see if the system might need time to stabilize itself, but it continued to propose gears that were way too high. Given that the STEPs drive works the best at medium to high RPMs, I don't see the logic here... Maybe I'm missing something...

If keep up with this rate you will never get married...to an Ebike!

Keep up the posts I am exploring all the flavors with you!