Shimano STePS

[J.R.]

I went to post a thread in the Shimano Forum... There isn't one! Bosch, sure. BionX, 8Fun, sure, sure, but no Shimano Forum! No place to post Shimano news, no place to talk Shimano components. And you call yourself a bike community? CRAP! Second rate! An also-ran community! Not an oversight, a DIS!



I'm interested in the newish Shimano STEPS mid-drive system, I don't know a ton about it, but have been reading and am intrigued. I'll get it started with this article:

"Shimano, known for bicycle components, has launched a new integrated system for e-bikes. At the end of February, the high tech lightweight Shimano STEPS system immediately won the Dutch Bike Innovation Award 2015 and since then has already been installed in 23 bicycle brands, including well-known brands such as Trek, Cortine and Cannondale."

Anyone got anything on STEPS (Shimano Total Electric Power System)? There is the Raleigh Misceo iE that Court recently reviewed and Brambor commented on in the Raleigh Forum, but that's about it so far. Could be big!

 

[JRA]

There were a number of STEPS e bikes made by custom builders at NAHBS this year. Apparently Shimano handed out the drives and allowed them to do what they wanted as far as design and execution. http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/nahbs-2015-e-bikes-emerge-at-this-years-show Not cheap I'm sure but some nice looking bikes!

 

[J.R.]

I guess this is just too new for many opinions yet... I'm fairly certain with Shimano building the STEPS system it will be big and a direct competitor to Bosch and Yamaha. Even if it's not the best, Shimano will have it on several bikes in 2015/16.

 

[NoDTMF]

I'm looking for a new chain for my Bosch powered bike I found a Shimano chain advertised for Bosch/STEPS. I think J.R. is correct, we are going to see some good competition. Any prediction of the e-bike landscape in 3 years?

 

[George S.]

Pete at Electric Bike Report put his full review of the Misceo up. Not quite as refined as I would have thought.

 

[J.R.]

I think we will see a big rollout of the STEPS system summer/fall this year. Since starting this thread I've read a lot and like the combination of components Shimano is putting together.

From BIKE Europe comes a very good article:

"New is also that software updates can be installed in the current STEPS drive system. Examples are Walk Assist and Start Mode. After a stop Start Mode selects automatically a lower (pre-selected) gear. In daily life selecting the right gear proves to be difficult; in particular for the e-bike target group. However, coming soon is auto shifting with special Di2 software with which it will become possible to have the system shift automatically to the correct gear. STEPS with Di2 is to be called ‘Symphomatic’." Read more here.

Support for the system should be excellent worldwide with Shimano authorized distributor and dealer network.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I think we will see a big rollout of the STEPS system summer/fall this year. Since starting this thread I've read a lot and like the combination of components Shimano is putting together.

From BIKE Europe comes a very good article:

"New is also that software updates can be installed in the current STEPS drive system. Examples are Walk Assist and Start Mode. After a stop Start Mode selects automatically a lower (pre-selected) gear. In daily life selecting the right gear proves to be difficult; in particular for the e-bike target group. However, coming soon is auto shifting with special Di2 software with which it will become possible to have the system shift automatically to the correct gear. STEPS with Di2 is to be called ‘Symphomatic’." Read more here.

Support for the system should be excellent worldwide with Shimano authorized distributor and dealer network.

With the kind of tech wherewithal Shimano has at their disposal, wow I can't imagine the possibilities.

 

[J.R.]

Shimano STEPS is easily the most "stealth" of the mid-drive ebike systems. So far!

 

[Brambor]

good stuff

 

[Brambor]

excellent. I have the Scott Sub 10 . Scott has had E bike already last year but they were with Bosh (not in the US) I saw their line up in Munich.

 

[J.R.]

Taking a closer look at 2015 bikes, Steps is really starting to pick up momentum here. We have at least 5 bike manufacturers proposing models with it: Scott, Stockli, Cresta, TDS, and Saxonette. I suspect the reason is pricing.

There have been less moves to STEPS in the US, the most prominent for this season is the Raleigh. I really like what I've read of STEPS and the Raleigh, price is great when compared with other high-end systems. At this early stage the only real concern I have is the electric shifting. The Raleigh-STEPS cannot be a regular bike without the battery and I don't like that. The future is wide open and the drive is so small! I love that. Fall 2015 Interbike should be huge for Shimano STEPS.

 

[NoDTMF]

Are there STEPS configs that can act as a normal bike without the battery? Personally, I think requiring a battery is a bad idea, actually really bad. Simply forgetting to charge your battery could screw-up your plans, never mind all the other issues that can occur.

I want to see more competition in the mid-drive space. I also want to be able to work on my own motor, like replace the bearings and seals, check for water issues if I got it wet etc. I'm hoping some good system will emerge that allows for DIY maintainence.

 

[PowerMe]

How many more competitors are needed?

So far there is:

Bosch
Panasonic
Shimano
Impulse (2)
8Fun
Bafang

I might be missing some...

 

[J.R.]

Are there STEPS configs that can act as a normal bike without the battery? Personally, I think requiring a battery is a bad idea, actually really bad. Simply forgetting to charge your battery could screw-up your plans, never mind all the other issues that can occur.

I want to see more competition in the mid-drive space. I also want to be able to work on my own motor, like replace the bearings and seals, check for water issues if I got it wet etc. I'm hoping some good system will emerge that allows for DIY maintainence.

I need a bike to be a bike first too!

I'm one to do all my own service, but warranty can get in the way and at times and be very inconvenient. Something that costs $5 to fix in an hour can take days/weeks from a manufacturer. Often times I would like the choice of paying for full warranty, catastrophic warranty only or no warranty. For a car I'd pay full and for a bike or ebike I'd pay for catastrophic failure only. For a bike under $500 I would choose nothing and take the discount. We all have to pay the full for those that take advantage of it, it's the only way for it to make financial sense for the manufacture.

As for service after warranty, I don't see what's stopping you from cracking that motor case open and getting to those bearings and seals. And unless you are worried about a catastrophic failure or warranty on the work, if it makes sense for you, have at it from day one of ownership. There have been times in my life I've taken that route.

 

[NoDTMF]

@PowerMe - Point taken, I guess there are a lot of manufacturers.

@J.R. I wish somebody would post a youtube video of a Bosch teardown. But if I need new bearings, no place to order. BTW I have yet to hear of anyone doing a teardown of the Bosch motor. I asked on the Pedelec forum, no responses, other than comment mentioning the motors are still under warranty therefor no one is going to mess with them yet. I'll admit I looked at the lock rings holding in the crankshaft and almost took them off.......but everything seems smooth so no need I guess.

 

[J.R.]

@PowerMe - Point taken, I guess there are a lot of manufacturers.

@J.R. I wish somebody would post a youtube video of a Bosch teardown. But if I need new bearings, no place to order. BTW I have yet to hear of anyone doing a teardown of the Bosch motor. I asked on the Pedelec forum, no responses, other than comment mentioning the motors are still under warranty therefor no one is going to mess with them yet. I'll admit I looked at the lock rings holding in the crankshaft and almost took them off.......but everything seems smooth so no need I guess.

Are the bearings sealed into removable races, or loose in permanent races? Either way a good machine supply can spec and supply the bearings to you. Countless times I've had to get bearings for very high-tech machinery and at times the replacements have outlasted OEM. It's not uncommon, Bosch has to get them from somewhere, they don't make them.

 

[George S.]

Inside the Bosch, some of the parts:

 

[stevenast]

Add Yamaha to the list. Also bafang = 8fun.

 

[J.R.]

I think it's even worse for the US, I believe the support only has to extend for 10 years for discontinued consumer products.

 

[George S.]

I don't know what % of the market Bafang has, with the BBS02. They own the kit market, and it's where the startup companies tend to look. Bafang has a lot of engineers. It's not like it is a static product.

The idea of an automatic transmission is interesting, but Shimano seems to be using it to create a price point. The European ebike companies love those price points north of $3k, and they go orgasmic above $4k.

If you want something refined, you got with Bosch. If you want something that represents solid value, you go with Bafang.

Fill in the blank, The Shimano Steps is compelling because _____________.

Shimano probably has to own a piece of this market. People like Shimano, it's a MEGA brand, but maybe they can kick the habit. Something like a Ten STEPS program??