It's called a Failure Rate. And Karma as well I guess? I'm looking at an ebike with a Steps motor (Cero One) and a Bosch (Tern GSD) and a total wild card-DOST Drop (Bafang). All mid-drives. Will I get a good one or a bad one? Ill find out when I make my final decision. I feel your pain in getting a bike that you can't enjoy though. Keep us updated on the outcome.
Shimano steps is not a good choice (no spare parts for the drive)
- Thread starter anton.somora
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Mike TowpathTraveler
Well-Known Member
2500 miles and a failure like that is just completely unsat. I take it this was a warranty issue? Swap defective motor for a brand new one? Does the new motor start up a new warranty or do you remain on the old warranty and that ticking clock that strikes "out of warranty"?
I recall reading of powering up a Shimano drive system requires the rider to not apply any pressure on the pedals as it scrolls up. Crazy. They are the only drive with that ridiculous start up procedure.
Catalyzt
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Don't know what to say, guys. My E5000, their bottom-of-the-line, weakest motor, has given me 800 trouble-free miles so far, and while most of my rides are about 8 to 10 miles, they all include at least 1,000 feet of vertical, some pavement, some dirt, easier intermediate trails, but steep grades. So it's been getting a real workout -- and I have, too, with only 40nm of torque -- but seems totally up to the task. Sometimes I'd like more assistance, but my main goal is fitness riding, and I guess what I feared would be that the motor would feel like it was struggling. It's a motor usually used for city or hybrid ebikes, not eMTB. I don't think I realized how... er, experimental it was to use an E5000 for an eMTB until after I'd owned it about six months and looked into it.
And it just isn't. Very steady and consistent even on long climbs. I know 800 miles isn't a lot, but so far, so good.
It does not seem like there are a lot of threads here that complain about Shimano Steps failures generally-- and those that do tend to reference the European insurance company study, which I remember as being pretty weak. (Small/weird sample size for one thing, though I haven't looked at it in a while.) And while the folks over at emtb do have some helpful information, often users will kind of 'pile on' to a particular complaint, potentially blowing it out of proportion even if they haven't experienced that particular problem.
OTOH, there is a different Shimano problem mentioned somewhere on emtb forums: Some models of battery supposedly are prone to having a shorter life span-- and the fact that Shimano removed the 'battery health' reading from the eTube project (or at least it looks like they did) is kind of suspicious. So I'm not saying they are saints, either... guess I'll find out this summer, when I try some of my longer rides again in the Verdugos.
I only have three levels of assistance, but the torque sensor seems to work very smoothly. Maybe the 8000, 7000 and EP8 are prone to more issues. My buddy has a 7000 on his Rossignol (which feels like a Harley to me after the 5000) and got it from a friend who had a fleet of them for some resort somewhere. Next time I talk to him, I'll see if he's still in touch with the seller, and if he or the seller have had any problems with 'em.
And it just isn't. Very steady and consistent even on long climbs. I know 800 miles isn't a lot, but so far, so good.
It does not seem like there are a lot of threads here that complain about Shimano Steps failures generally-- and those that do tend to reference the European insurance company study, which I remember as being pretty weak. (Small/weird sample size for one thing, though I haven't looked at it in a while.) And while the folks over at emtb do have some helpful information, often users will kind of 'pile on' to a particular complaint, potentially blowing it out of proportion even if they haven't experienced that particular problem.
OTOH, there is a different Shimano problem mentioned somewhere on emtb forums: Some models of battery supposedly are prone to having a shorter life span-- and the fact that Shimano removed the 'battery health' reading from the eTube project (or at least it looks like they did) is kind of suspicious. So I'm not saying they are saints, either... guess I'll find out this summer, when I try some of my longer rides again in the Verdugos.
I only have three levels of assistance, but the torque sensor seems to work very smoothly. Maybe the 8000, 7000 and EP8 are prone to more issues. My buddy has a 7000 on his Rossignol (which feels like a Harley to me after the 5000) and got it from a friend who had a fleet of them for some resort somewhere. Next time I talk to him, I'll see if he's still in touch with the seller, and if he or the seller have had any problems with 'em.
LimboJim
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
AFAIK, Bosch is the only "Mainstream" ebike motor manufacturer that offers any parts for motor service, and it's limited to bearings (no electronics). If your torque sensor goes and your warranty's done, you're SOL - same with Shimano, Yamaha (mostly on Giant ebikes), and Brose (Specialized). I believe that's why motor makers don't repair broken motors under warranty, they simply replace them...
Ebike Motor Centre (UK) and Ebike Motor Repair (US) offer a bearing kit for Shimano (e8000 only), but it's an extremely tricky job that's loaded with "booby traps" that can completely disable your motor if you don't do the job with surgical precision. While they'll gladly perform bearing overhauls of Bosch, Yamaha and Brose motors, neither of the aforementioned service places will actually do them on Shimano motors, in part because of the ridiculous sensitivity.
Watch this e8000 overhaul video and you'll see what I mean. Jump to this point (~6 mins in) of the video and watch for less than a minute to see the most sensitive part...
Yea I wasn't thrilled, but the bike's a 2018 so Shimano's 2 year coverage was done. It's one of three eMTBs I own, so I spread my mileage out among my rigs. Yes it's disappointing that I had to buy the replacement motor myself, but I know a few Levo owners who've gone through more than two replacement motors in fewer miles and years. That's why Specialized doubled the motor warranty from 2 to 4 years for 2019-21 models. I do wish Shimano would've followed suit.
FWIW since 2015 I have 100s to 1000s of miles on Bosch, Yamaha and Brose powered ebikes, and while the "no pressure on pedals upon start up" is unique to Shimano, it's really not a big deal. The owner's manual says that the torque sensor recalibrates with each power up, and if I forget to lay off the pedals during startup (which I haven't in a couple years), I simply reboot and it's all good.
antboy
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Knock on wood, but my Shimano E6100 has been through 6000km of worry free riding (with more offroad than originally intended).
Bookmarking that site, just in case.
Knock on wood, but my Shimano E6100 has been through 6000km of worry free riding (with more offroad than originally intended).
anton.somora
New Member
- Region
- Europe
UPDATE:The motor was replaced by Shimano under warranty, so we will see how long lasts, so far so good (200 km)
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