Seeking advice choosing a motor, please

[Roccus]

My dad has Parkinson's disease. Last year I got him a nice bike with Bosch torque and cadence sensor. But his balance got worse. And he didn't have leg power to get up his steep 200foot driveway.
He wanted (&got himself) a bike that has pedal assist and a thumb throttle, to get him up his drive, but still the balance issue.
So I bought him a Trike. It's a BEST ultimate trike, but I need to power it.
Do I need a high torque for the driveway? Or find another motor with thumb throttle? I Love the feeling of magic, cant notice the power assist while peddling with cadence and torque sensor with the Bosch, but it cudnt overcome that need for power on the driveway.
Bafang makes a powerful motor, also has a thumb throttle.
Any suggestions for best motor for this trike?
Thank you very much.

 

[Dewey]

Nice trike, Bafang BBS kits can be mounted at the front of recumbent trikes, go with the BBSHD if you need high torque/power and a throttle. If your Dad likes the feel of a torque PAS sensor however you might also like to consider a 750w version of the TSDZ2 that has both a throttle and a torque sensor and the ability to have a dual chainring if you want to gear it down for climbing steep hills.

 

[tomjasz]

Given the Parkinsons, I'd lean towards a BBSHD. BBS02 motors hate being bogged down in the wrong gear and lugging will, sure enough, kill a BBS01 and BBS02.

 

[indianajo]

Mid Drive seems unnecessarily complex. You need to measure the steepest grade on the driveway. My $221 geared hub motor power wheel would lift 330 lb from a standing start on 15%. That is 7/8" rise on a 6" Kmart level. It would speed up to ~6 mph on that grade from a standing start. With that weight, 94 lb bike & tools, 60 lb groceries, 170 lb me.
Then just bolt in the wheel, apply torque arms, screw clamp the battery & controller somewhere, tie wrap the wires, get out & ride. Most power wheel kits come with a throttle. I bought my first cheap power wheel from ebikeling.com . It wore out at 4500 miles, which probably would not be a problem considering the low initial cost. His batteries are reputable, too.
Geared hub motor is always in the right gear, unless your father want to go 30 mph. My ebikeling wheel topped out at 25 mph, the new Mac12 one tops out at 23 mph.

 

[m@Robertson]

^^^ What @tomjasz said. The HD is a little more expensive but it is beefier and its controller is better able to handle abuse like lugging the motor. You'll also want to do a careful exam of the drivetrain and chain line to make sure he isn't going to be climbing that driveway and end up having his chain skewed hard left on an inner cog - and risk it breaking. In his condition that would be bad news. You want the chain to have a straight run back when it is on the cog(s) that he will use to climb that hill.

 

[indianajo]

Grin is in Canada. Enjoy horsing with customs both directions. California ebike also sells power wheel geared hub motor kits. Don't buy a big diameter DD hubmotor, they are low torque on grades.

 

[tomjasz]

Mid Drive seems unnecessarily complex.

I get your drift and agree with you to a point.

NONE of my GD hubs or DD hubs come even close to the climbing ability of a mid-drive.

BBSHD drives being the toughest and most reliable of the mid-drive kits in my experience.
Disclaimer, I do support BBSxx series, motor customers. Personally, I ride 36V BBS01B 350W (also MIXUS and MAC. DD & GD) and sold my three personal BBSHD motors when I found they were not a great choice for riding in a small city with no hills. I also developed a habit of riding them at top speed. I ended up not feeling safe. So I dumbed down and have reverted back to 36V systems.

I see a LOT of recumbent trike conversions and folks like Utah Trikes offer a BBSHD option. I do see builders reducing controller amps and making program adjustments as some find the base BBSHD programming overpowering.

 

[tomjasz]

Grin is in Canada. Enjoy horsing with customs both directions.

I'm sorry but that is NOT correct. I purchased and sold their products without ever having any customs issues. ZIP, NADA, NONE!

California ebike also sells power wheel geared hub motor kits.

california-ebike.com? If yes then again, no not correct. Doug hasn't sold GD Mixus kits in several years.

 

[tomjasz]

A BBSHD COULD be run as a single speed. IF there's not a lot of hills to deal with. I wish opinions were made on actual experience rather than based on reading Google searches of forums.

 

[Roccus]

Thank you very much. Just read about the Tsdz2 and it looks interesting. Not very expensive either. And the PAS feel, with the option of thumb throttle may be the best combination for us. Someone mentioned the mid-motors being more complex,,than a hub motor. I understand the nature of the recumbant lend themselves to one or the other, but cant remember which. So much to learn. Thank you so much for your insight.

Nice trike, Bafang BBS kits can be mounted at the front of recumbent trikes, go with the BBSHD if you need high torque/power and a throttle. If your Dad likes the feel of a torque PAS sensor however you might also like to consider a 750w version of the TSDZ2 that has both a throttle and a torque sensor and the ability to have a dual chainring if you want to gear it down for climbing steep hills.

 

[Roccus]

Thank you very much. Just read about the Tsdz2 and it looks interesting. Not very expensive either. And the PAS feel, with the option of thumb throttle may be the best combination for us. Someone mentioned the mid-motors being more complex,,than a hub motor. I understand the nature of the recumbant lend themselves to one or the other, but cant remember which. So much to learn. Thank you so much for your insight

Nice trike, Bafang BBS kits can be mounted at the front of recumbent trikes, go with the BBSHD if you need high torque/power and a throttle. If your Dad likes the feel of a torque PAS sensor however you might also like to consider a 750w version of the TSDZ2 that has both a throttle and a torque sensor and the ability to have a dual chainring if you want to gear it down for climbing steep hills.

M

Mid Drive seems unnecessarily complex. You need to measure the steepest grade on the driveway. My $221 geared hub motor power wheel would lift 330 lb from a standing start on 15%. That is 7/8" rise on a 6" Kmart level. It would speed up to ~6 mph on that grade from a standing start. With that weight, 94 lb bike & tools, 60 lb groceries, 170 lb me.
Then just bolt in the wheel, apply torque arms, screw clamp the battery & controller somewhere, tie wrap the wires, get out & ride. Most power wheel kits come with a throttle. I bought my first cheap power wheel from ebikeling.com . It wore out at 4500 miles, which probably would not be a problem considering the low initial cost. His batteries are reputable, too.
Geared hub motor is always in the right gear, unless your father want to go 30 mph. My ebikeling wheel topped out at 25 mph, the new Mac12 one tops out at 23 mph.

 

[Roccus]

Less complicated sounds great. Are all hub motors,, geared hub motors? My wife has a Mostauche (that sounds absurd) but it's a great ebike, with a Bosch motor. She doesnt need to change gears, but has a shifter with a picture of a bike on a hill, that flattens or steepness as she turns the gear as needed,,,like shifting. Is that a 'geared hub' ? I'd like something simple like that for my dad, especially if could find one that cud handle high torque when needed, and an optional throttle if his legs are just shot by the time he hits his driveway.
Bosch's cx looks great. If the torque is high, and trike takes balance out of the equation, maybe we cud forego the thumb throttle....gotta look at the cost for Bosch though. That's gotta be up there. Thanks for the input.

 

[Roccus]

As you know, mid drive requires shifting, which inevitably adds complexity in his cycling experience.
Have you considered hub drive?

Less complex is definitely a plus. Best hub drive (I think) I've read about is the Bosch cx. I wonder if there's another option, similar quality yet more economical...like the high torque. I think he feels that a thumb throttle option is a useful crutch as his muscles get tired much sooner than they used to. Still considering. Tyvm for suggestion

 

[Roccus]

WoW! This looks Amazing! GRIN. Great company it seems. Probably gonna be higher price than the Bosch,, gotta compare the torque, and other specs. Overall, I suspect Grin will he superior, but then we're not "mountain triking", mostly easy trails, and the occasional slope or hill. Still a great suggestion though and this might be a winner for us. Tyvm Timpo. Greatly appreciated.

Have you checked out Grin All Axle?
It's very lightweight and great for trike.

 

[Roccus]

Looks like

Less complex is definitely a plus. Best hub drive (I think) I've read about is the Bosch cx. I wonder if there's another option, similar quality yet more economical...like the high torque. I think he feels that a thumb throttle option is a useful crutch as his muscles get tired much sooner than they used to. Still considering. Tyvm for suggestion

I'm wrong, again. The Cx looks like a mid motor, not a hub... so still have to do shifting, etc. Confused, again.

 

[tomjasz]

I don't know

Exactly.

 

[tomjasz]

What kind of trike are you thinking about?

See OP. BEST

BEST ultimate trike,

 

[Dewey]

Thank you very much. Just read about the Tsdz2 and it looks interesting. Not very expensive either. And the PAS feel, with the option of thumb throttle may be the best combination for us. Someone mentioned the mid-motors being more complex,,than a hub motor. I understand the nature of the recumbant lend themselves to one or the other, but cant remember which. So much to learn. Thank you so much for your insight

M

While it’s true that getting a mid-drive to work with your trike gearing can be affected by frame/chainline issues, that’s why I recommend working with a competent local bike shop, maybe the shop that sold you the trike, so they can use their shop tools and knowledge to make it work or at least give you good advice. So in my case for my first conversion I decided one day to try an internal geared hub on the rear so I could shift gear when stopped. My bike shop fit a chain tensioner they bolted to where the derailleur hanger had attached previously and that allowed my mid-drive motor to work with the IGH on a hybrid frame that did not have the horizontal or sliding drop outs typically used with IGH hubs to deliver the required chain tension.

For your Dad’s trike the shop could remove the cranks, maybe you slot in and attach the motor if they don’t want to work on electrical components, then they could make the new chainring/s work with the trike gearing. I’ve not owned a trike but presumably the longer chain from the front of the boom all the way to the rear might mean chainline is less of an issue, the point being they have the knowledge and the right tools. Talk to them about your ideas and see if they’re willing to help with the conversion, at the least they will be able to suggest the right size chainring for you to buy.

If you decide to go with a hub motor there are two types, a geared hub motor is preferred for hill climbing, there is another type called a direct drive that offers less torque and is heavier that is favored for Class 3 speed but I’d suggest you talk to Grin Tech for advice about one of their geared hub motors. I’ve had good service from Grin Tech supplying parts shipped via Canada Post to the US, but more importantly they are very familiar working on unusual frame types, and with chain tensioners and jackstaff and other pulley systems for long chains, and they offer a good selection of motors, they can advise about the issues how to make it work on your Dad’s trike.