Rover distance improvement options?

[Vince78]

Ok, so I’ve been looking for ways to get more distance out of my RadRover. Clearly a different battery with more ah would do it. My issue is the increase in real world use vs cost of a battery doesn’t seem worth it. Spending 5-600$ and gaining 10-15 miles seems pretty low vs the cost of a new bike. I’ve read about changing out the chainring to adjust pedal levels. Can someone exsplain that a bit more?
My issue is I’m disabled and can’t pedal in lower pas so I’m burning power faster and getting lower mileage. Changing/improving gears seems like a more cost effective way to go for me to increase mileage.
Also, any recommendations for improved mileage anyone has found is welcome. I’m fine with the speed as I prefer to stay legal
Thanks for any help

 

[JRA]

Those fat tires are not helping any. Either pump them up to rock hard and feel every bump in the road or get a set of narrower wheels and tires. Using upper assist levels will always reduce mileage, nothing you can do about that if it is necessary for your condition.

 

[Vince78]

Yes but if I change the chainrings will I be able to use a lower pas and help my battery out?

 

[mrgold35]

I would think about changing out the tires to Origin8 of Maxxis Hookworms if you are 100% urban. The standard knobby tires seem to take more effort and power to turn compared to other aftermarket urban replacements. I switched to Vee8 26X4 120tpi tires and felt faster acceleration, less effort maintaining my speed, less road knobby road noise, and higher top speed with these tires for around $70 each.

Realistically, slowing down, lowering the PAS levels, and providing more pedal power is about the only way to increase the range of the Radrover significantly. When I ride my normal PAS 3 (occasional PAS 4 on steep hills) at 15-18 mph and using full throttle for intersections or short inclines usually give me 24-28 mile range. Slowing down between 10-13 mph and using PAS 2 (with occasional PAS 3), minimal throttle, and A LOT more pedalling can increases my range to 36-40 miles.

I'm lucky to have two his/her Radrovers and my wife doesn't like to ride as much as I do. I have a rear rack and Topeak rack bag that is large enough to take her battery for a spare if I'm know I'm pushing my limit (hills, wind, range, cold temps, etc...). Luna Cycles sells the exact same replacement battery for the 2015/2016 Radrovers starting at $400 or higher capacity batteries for a little more. I haven't check to see if Luna Cycle have battery replacements for the 2018 Rad Power bikes for the same price.

A spare battery would be the best bang for the buck way to 2X your range at any PAS level if you have range concerns.

 

[Vince78]

Thanks for the reply and not to be rude but clearly riding style of course effects it and that’s basically what all of those fall into. My ride is on all terrains and often snow. Tire change isn’t really what I’m looking for. Im looking more for changin the gears to make it more effective. Due to my injury pedaling is the issue. I end up having to us the higher pas levels. I’m trying to find a way to gear it to use lower pas to save battery.
Thank you for the reply but those are things that I have already tried. Until battery prices drop it’s hard to justify the price when they are half the price of the bike for a small increase in distance

 

[Mr. Coffee]

The rad rover is a hub drive bike. That means the gears on the chain are completely independent of the motor and changing them won't effect your range.

There might be software changes you can make to the pas system, but it is beyond my expertise to say what those would be.

 

[Vince78]

The rad rover is a hub drive bike. That means the gears on the chain are completely independent of the motor and changing them won't effect your range.

There might be software changes you can make to the pas system, but it is beyond my expertise to say what those would be.

Hey thank you. Oddly enough I didn’t think about that.

 

[mrgold35]

One way to increase your range is adjust the motor cutoff. If the 2018 Radrovers have the same set-up software as the 2015-2017 Rads, you can adjust the motor cutoff from 12 km/h to 40 km/h (7.4 mph to 24.8 mph). You could change the gearing to find the "sweet spot" you can pedal with minimal PAS to maintain your speed like for example 8-10 mph. The new motor cutoff would kick in at 10 mph increasing your range if you go above that (like down hills, level ground, good tail wind, etc...).

You will just end trading range for top speed. A spare battery is the best way to keep both range and top speed.

 

[Vince78]

Mine is a 2017 not 18. While I understand how that works and even thought of that, I didn’t want to make my ride to and from work longer so was hoping to find another way. Thank you for bringing something other then basic riding style thou.

As stated in the Op, until battery price is better I refuse to get a second. Batteries shouldn’t be almost half the cost of the bike. Seriously, I’ll buy another bike instead of a second battery. The. At least if a friend wanted to try it out we’d have a third. 600 for a batterythat gets lik 5 mile more is a rip off.
I was thinking if I changed the chainring, then lower gears act like higher gears and I could get away with a lower pas, thus exstending battery life. Yes gear works independently from motor, but if you still pedal and it still assist. I don’t know if I’d need the same pas if I changed it or not but was thinking it’s worth a shot. Right now I get lower mileage then anyone I know due to pas and throttle use. My route is hilly and very windy(average 30 mile going to 4/50 mile an hour) I’m also hoping my surgery I had Friday let’s me pedal better when healed so that may allow me to spend time in lower pas.
Tire change isn’t an answer as it’s minimal at best and I need a tires for all terrains. I see dirty, mud, concrete, snow a lot of the year and ice.

A normal ride to work and home doesn’t call for a spare anyways as I can make it home just often I’m blinking. If I want to go anywhere in town after work I have to charge it thou. I’m in a small town and pretty much can use my bike to get anywhere so it would be nice to take advantage of that

 

[mrgold35]

I actually have 3 batteries for my two Radrovers. I had a battery fail to re-charge and Rad sent me a replacement. Did a lot web researched and got some great advice from folks on this forum and I was able to repair the in-op battery on my own. I now share the 3rd battery between the two rovers.

Sounds like you are really pushing your battery to the limits and hitting a full recharge cycle several times a week. I ride 3000 miles a year (4000 miles total) and wind and inclines are by biggest battery range zappers. We get spring winds with 15-20 mph sustained with 30-35 mph gust always from the west (my ride home direction). I also riding from 4900 ft at work to my home at 5450 ft with that headwind. I can sometimes use 60%-80% power just riding home the 6 1/2 mile ride home using PAS 3/4 at only 8-12 mph. I really haven't notice a big drop with cold weather; but, I have a Luna Cycle triangle battery cover and my ebike is kept indoors at work and home. I ran out of power about a mile from home once and the Radrover is one heavy bike to pedal above 4-8 mph without some level of PAS on any incline and/or headwind unless you are closer to tip/top shape. That was when I got the 3rd battery fixed and purchased another charger to leave at work top off for windy days.

A second battery would have the advantage of 2X your range, maintain your preferred cruising speed, and 3X or even 4X battery longevity because you are not hitting the full charging cycle several times a week. The $$$ I spend up front will hopefully breakeven or even save me money 3-5 years down the road in other aspects in my life (less wear/tear on car, better health, new hobby/friends, taken both Rads on vacation to Grand Canyon/Sedona, we now do family X-mas luminaria bike tours every year, etc...).

I only got around 800 miles from my rear kenda tires (a little longer from the front tires). Paved road commuting really wears down these off road tires. I switched to Vee8 26X4 120tpi tires and had an improvement in range, acceleration, traction, less flats, less noise, 2X to 3X longer tire wear, and lighter tires. You are going to have to change tires anyways around 1000-1400 miles. Doesn't hurt to start looking at replacements or have a summer/winter types like some do with vehicles depending on current road conditions, temps, and riding style.

The Vee8 can do everything the Kenda can do; just better:

 

[Vince78]

Very nicely written post with good info thank you. I completely relate to the 6 1/2 mile and draining most the juice as that seems to be my life as well. I also have a triangle for my battery and use rice to keep it warm. Winter here is a tough one. Storage at home is inside but I’m a shift worker so for 12+ hours it’s outside. Nights, weekends, days, it jumps around a lot in a week for me. My town is smaller and I can literally go anywhere in town with the bike. It’s an outstanding way to get around when not below 0. Carrying an extra battery isn’t ideal now the cost as I stated before. I may just have to wait till batteries improved a bit more and put up with it a bit longer. I was hoping I missed an improvement somewhere.

And yes, I will be looking for tires soon. I’m not set in keeping the stock in any means. But I need one that can go threw different terrains as this is why I picked a fat bike not because they are cool, but for the functionality where I am. Had I got a more traditional bike I could have easily got longer range. Compromise I guess.
My wife went with the city and she works 3 miles and has one of the steepest hills in town on her ride. Sh also comes home at lunch to care from the dogs. Combined, she pulls about the same as me in a day just broken up and with the flexibility of if weather goes bad she can take the car(best of both worlds and I’m a bit jealous lol) and her battery lasts a good week before needing to charge. I know she has regen and she can ride in pas 2 and be fine the whole way. Add her weights to it and her being in good shape and she goes about 15-18 the whole way. Must be nice. The city while I looked at seems very appealing to me after sharing hers. Both are great bikes, it’s just what suite ones needs I would say. She’ll never part with hers, and dispite my range issues I love my rover. Over all I prefer my handling as well being I ride motorcycles my whole life before becoming disabled.

 

[waderaid]

I am tempted to order this pack as my main and use the other as spare. It looks like it should fit. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V...3a5e-446e-888f-91172d6821b0&priceBeautifyAB=0

 

[Vince78]

That’s still just 672 Wh. That breaks down in perfect condition best case 33 miles. Real world probably 25. I get 18ish. 300$ to go 8 miles longer just doesn’t seem like enough to spend the cash to me. Ya everyone can say carry a second but then you have the weight and sucuring a second battery

 

[tomjasz]

5w electric heat pads will keep the battery warm for little loss of power. Wrapped in foam and in a padded triangle bag. There are several of us using this method. In MN.

 

[tomjasz]

5w electric heat pads will keep the battery warm for little loss of power. Wrapped in foam and in a padded triangle bag. There are several of us using this method. In MN.

If you’re handy consider building a battery pack. $4/cell $20 for a balance BMS. Recycle the case.

 

[Vince78]

5w electric heat pads will keep the battery warm for little loss of power. Wrapped in foam and in a padded triangle bag. There are several of us using this method. In MN.

My battery is wrapped already and I’m talking about summer distance as I haven’t notice a difference in winter and cold temps. I’m in SD so I know I needed to keep the battery warm in winter. And I use warned rice bags to keep the battery warm in winter in the bag. It’s easy, reusable and last hours when heated without using battery life

 

[mrgold35]

How much access do you have to power on your daily ride? It really comes in handy having an extra charger to leave at work if I need to top off the battery if I need the extra mileage. It takes around 1 hour to charge for every 20% drop in power the best I can figure. I've sometimes take detours just to ride longer if the weather is nice. Before having the work charger, my max daily range was around 22-26 miles split between morning/afternoon rides. Being able to "top off" at work has 2X that range to around 40-45 miles if I take my extra rides with no change in PAS/throttle usage.

A extra $40 charger and access to power would be cheaper and easier than changing gearing or purchasing the extra battery.

 

[Vince78]

Yes that is what I’ve had to do. Lucky there are plugs outside my work as I can’t take it in and pulling the battery every time is a pain as I’ve done that as well. To me that’s a temporary fix. I travel with my charger just in case I need to make stops on the way home. My thing is there are bike that get 4-50 mile real world range. If they can do it why can’t ours get better. I live the bike and don’t want another, I just want to maximize the range to use it more

 

[mrgold35]

Sounds like you want what we all wish for. Have the mid-drive performance and range at a rear hub price. A mid-drive with +4 inch fat tire or 2 1/2 - 3 1/4 inch plus size tires would give you the range, gearing, and PAS levels. When I was looking, I couldn't find a mid-drive with a throttle and under $2500 (unlimited choices for mid-drives in the $2500-$8000 range). That was too much money for my first ebike and I needed to purchase two. I figured the Radrover would be my introduction into the ebike world and I can get two rovers for the price of one mid-drive. My plan is to upgrade to a mid-drive down the road if I need more specialize riding capabilities instead of the jack of all trades Radrover. So far, I've been extremely happy with my current set-up because it supports my riding style and various terrains I ride perfectly.

The great thing I really like about the Radrover is it is a fat tire MTB with ebike components added. You could find a new/used higher end fat tire bike with all "go fast" options (tires, gears, lighter frame, brakes, better front suspension forks, full suspension, lighter accessories, etc...) and transfer the LCD, controller, wiring harness, and rear hub over. I can see you dropping around 15-20 lbs off the current weight of the Radrover by doing that and bumping up the range in the process.

 

[Vince78]

I e looked at mid drives, but love my rover. I figured I’d have to upgrade some day but It seems like the rover can get better range still. Well, im sure in ( years battery will be so much better we can get like 50 miles on average.