Rohloff kit transformation?

[RMSDivine]

Does someone know if the Rohloff kit can be separately purchased and installed on my Superdelite which currently is provided with the derailleur?

 

[nashdm2]

I am not sure what the exact current situation is, but, when the E14 was first released there was no retrofit option. Don't know if that is the case today, but, having a E14 myself and previously having many derailleur bikes, it would be quite a bit of work to do. I expect others will be along soon to add to this.

 

[JVBulman]

The E14 electronics are available aftermarket. Along with that and a Rohloff, you'll also need a different spider for the chainring that's offset to match the Rohloff's chainline, some QR rear dropouts from R&M if you're rear wheel is currently thru axle, and some sort of tensioner - to my knowledge R&M only makes one for Belt Rohloff. Lastly you're going to need the appropriate firmware package for the drive unit to match the new Rohloff configuration, which can only be acquired from R&M directly.

That said, while it's possible to convert a Touring model to Rohloff, it's a very involved process that on a good day is a headache and on a bad day an absolute nightmare. It requires not only dropping the drive unit, but also the fork and digging deep into the electronics of the bike due to the way R&M handles internal routing on their current Powertube bikes. The conversion will also need to be approved by R&M for them to release the previously mentioned firmware package to your dealer and getting approval from them to reconfigure a bike aftermarket has historically been the hardest part of the process.

 

[RMSDivine]

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I thought all the parts could be bought from RM directly....

 

[JVBulman]

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I thought all the parts could be bought from RM directly....

Not to my knowledge, no.

 

[RMSDivine]

It should, as for the spare parts....
If your rear wheel with the Rohloff shift gets stolen, who is going to replace it if not RM?

 

[JVBulman]

It should, as for the spare parts....
If your rear wheel with the Rholoff shift gets stolen, who is going to replace it if not RM?

If a thief is able to muscle the rear wheel out of a Superdelite Rohloff that's locked up without getting caught, I think they've earned it

Jokes aside; If you had your rear wheel stolen, R&M would likely be able to supply you with a new one, but replacing stolen bits is very different from asking them to supply a complete kit to retrofit a Touring model to Rohloff when they're pretty openly discouraging of aftermarket conversions.

If you really want to do it, you can get everything but the dropouts, tensioner, and firmware package from places other than R&M, but honestly unless you do the work yourself or get a screaming discount on labor, it's likely going to be cheaper just to sell your current bike and buy a new one spec'd as Rohloff from the factory.

 

[RMSDivine]

If a thief is able to muscle the rear wheel out of a Superdelite Rohloff that's locked up without getting caught, I think they've earned it

Jokes aside; If you had your rear wheel stolen, R&M would likely be able to supply you with a new one, but replacing stolen bits is very different from asking them to supply a complete kit to retrofit a Touring model to Rohloff when they're pretty openly discouraging of aftermarket conversions.

If you really want to do it, you can get everything but the dropouts, tensioner, and firmware package from places other than R&M, but honestly unless you do the work yourself or get a screaming discount on labor, it's likely going to be cheaper just to sell your current bike and buy a new one spec'd as Rohloff from the factory.

I just thought it would be another way for RM to earn money. Why not grab 2k$ easy from a customer who wants to change gear shift system? There's a Rholoff model in the GT line, so RM could easily supply all required parts. I am pretty sure the bike frame is identical.

 

[JVBulman]

I just thought it would be another way for RM to earn money. Why not grab 2k$ easy from a customer who wants to change gear shift system? There's a Rholoff model in the GT line, so RM could easily supply all required parts. I am pretty sure the bike frame is identical.

Yep, the frames are identical. My guess would be that there just isn't enough demand for it to be worth the trouble for them.

 

[RMSDivine]

Tech Talk: Retrofit your e-bike with Rohloff E-14 Electronic Shifting | Cycle Monkey

www.cyclemonkey.com

 

[RMSDivine]

So, it looks like this can be done! I am not sure about the final costs, but this is the email I got from Rohloff, might be helpful to other riders seeking for this.

E-14 conversion:

General
The Rohloff E-14, electronic shifting system has been constructed so it can be retrofitted to every existing SPEEDHUB ever built. Once basically removes the current internal or external gear mech and replaces it with the E-14 Shifter Unit. The Rohloff E-14 system can however only be used on Bosch (Generation 2&3) powered eBike – use in combination with other eBike motor brands is not currently possible.

Pre-conditions
Conversion to an E-14, Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 unit is usually only possible on eBikes from brands who already offer the same model bike, with the E-14 shifting system as an option ex-works.
• This gives us the confidence to be sure that the motor is centrally mounted (to provide the required chainline/beltline) as well as providing us with the assurance that all other mounting criteria for a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 unit has been correctly accounted for.
• Conversions of eBikes from brands without a Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 equipped model in their assortment, is generally not possible.

A conversion of high-speed S-pedelecs, produced prior to 2019, is generally not permitted in Germany, because the Rohloff E-14 shifting system was never included as an „alternative transmission“, within the vehicle documentation at that time. Conversions of these S-pedelecs to E-14 use, may void the homologation paperwork and render the bicycle as illegal for use on public highways in other countries. Please seek legal advice to check the individual laws for your customers country of residence.

Dealers must, prior to any Rohloff SPEEDHUB 500/14 conversion, discuss the planned conversion intensively with the bicycle manufacturer themselves, to ensure the technical pre-conditions of each individual eBike are accounted for. Furthermore, this step is critical to ensure the full OEM manufactures support and thus their willingness to remotely re-flash the Bosch eBike system software with the required software container to recognize E-14 commands.

Complications
The challenges facing each conversion, start with the E-bike frame itself:
• The complete Rohloff E-14 E-Bike set comprises of the following individual components:
o E-14 Switch Unit (= handlebar mounted shifter)
o E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter
o E-14 Extension/Connection cable (400-1000mm lengths available)
o E-14 Shifter Unit (= SPEEDHUB mounted gear mech)
• The correct Bosch eShift Y-cable is also required in addition to the above listed components (various options available depending on battery type & cable length required), to complete the connection between Bosch eBike System and Rohloff E-14 shifting system. This Y-cable is not included as part of the complete Rohloff E-14 E-Bike set and thus must be sourced separately from the local Bosch component distributor. Only the OEM bicycle manufacturer themselves will be able to quote which cable version is the correct one for use with their bicycle.
• Necessary checks to perform prior to conversion of a Bosch eBike include:
o routing of the Rohloff E-14 cable loom possible
o insertion of the Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter in downtube/seattube, so cables protrude into motor mount location possible
o room available within frame to locate Rohloff E-14 DC/DC-CAN Converter (cylindrical component, Ø 22mm x 100mm, 3 exiting cables) alongside all other cables sharing said space
• Modification of motor mount (e.g. widening of tube holes to accommodate cables and/or DC/DC Converter) is not permitted. Frame warranty cover will be voided should such alteration take place without consent of the OEM bicycle frame manufacturer.
• The Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit is slightly larger than the mechanical, External Gear Mech. It is thus vital that any possible collision issues with other external components which share this area (such as kickstands, trailers etc.) are avoided.

The necessary information for a successful conversion to the Rohloff E-14 System is only available from the OEM bicycle manufacturer themselves:

• A small remaining risk will still remain present even after thorough discussion with the OEM bicycle manufacturer and this may only become apparent after removal of the Bosch motor. It is always possible that due to production tolerances etc. the entry area where cables must pass from DC/DC CAN Converter, through the motor mount, may contradict the information supplied by the OEM bicycle manufacturer, and thus may still prove unsuitable for Rohloff E-14 use.
• Workshop labor fees will of course be applicable before this final information can be determined. Consumers must be aware that these fees will be applicable even if the result proves that a conversion is not possible.

Software-Update
The Bosch eBike System software must be re-flashed with a software container required to acknowledge E-14 commands, in order to complete the successful conversion process.
• It is vital to check with your local Bosch eBike agent in your country, prior to proceeding with any conversion, as to whether this service is offered and if so – by who. Re-flashing of the Bosch eBike System software is only possible within Europe, by the OEM bicycle manufacturer themselves. Neither Rohloff nor the Bosch service center are able to help within Europe, due to the various legal implications / liability clauses involved with the process.
• For the reasons described above, it is necessary to check in advance with the service department of the OEM bicycle manufacturer, as to the option availability, process involved and costs that would be incurred.

Conversion costs
The MSRP (including 19% German sales tax) for a complete Rohloff E-14 eBike set is €650. The complete conversion costs consisting of Rohloff E-14 eBike set, Bosch eShift Y-cable, Remote-Support costs (for re-flashing the Bosch eBike System software) plus labor costs for research and conversion/workshop time have been approximated at €1000 here in Europe. The labor time for a conversion to a Rohloff E-14 eBike system has been approximated at 3-5 hours. This comprises of the following:
• Advance research/discussions with the OEM bicycle manufacturer
• Configuration and PO processing for the correct Bosch eShift Y-Cable
• The physical conversion of the eBike
• The remote support time required for re-flashing the Bosch eBike System with the necessary software container
• Final operations check and test-ride
Please note the above listed information is meant as a guide only. The actual times and thus corresponding costs may differ from bicycle model to bicycle model.


Electromagnetic Compatibility & CE-Conformity
The conversion of an eBike to Rohloff E-14 use, will alter the certified electrical arrangement of the eBike. It is vital therefore, that the EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) and the corresponding CE-conformity of the eBike (where applicable), is discussed with the OEM bicycle manufacturer prior to the conversion as it is not possible to repeat the EMC test retrospectively.

Summary
Even if customers fully understand all the technical issues and legal implications surrounding an eBike conversion to Rohloff E-14 use, we hope this document goes some way to explain why a prior, in-depth discussion with the eBike manufacturer is a prerequisite of being able to fully assess the plausibility of a successful Rohloff E-14 conversion.

 

[Francois145]

It is feasible. I heard it when I was in a R&M special dealer in Belgium. One customer was complaining about the fact that it is difficult to reach 45kmh with his supercharger 2 GT Vario. The mecanician said he had warned him... He told that it would be possible to convert it with the Rohloff e14 system and they have done that in the past... he just said that is a lot of work, so I can imagine that the price may exceed the EUR 2K...
That is why i decided to order the supercharger 2 GT Rohloff HS instead of the Vario model. I will post a review. The only thing that I can say is that you need to get used to Rohloff gear shifting. Coming from a bike equipped with a NuVinci, it is different. It is not that I regret my choice but it may take some time to appreciate the Rohloff system...

 

[RMSDivine]

I am currently using a classic derailleur shift, what should I expect different?

 

[Nycturne]

So, I've not spent a ton of time a Rohloff except during a test ride, but I spent years on a road bike with a derailleur (a 21-speed).

The main thing that hit me is that the shifting really asks you to be more intentional. What kept tripping me up in the test ride was that I was used to being able to make a larger down shift with the front gears, and tune it with the back if I got caught in too high a gear on a hill. With the Rohloff, you have to spool the gears, by which time I'd have run out of steam on certain hills near the LBS. But if you can be more pre-emptive in your shifting, it's fine. This should be pretty similar to the Touring though, since you don't have front gears.

I also wasn't a huge fan of the Kiox's tiny number showing the gear you were in, or the button shifter. I wish they had spent R&D budget on a good set of electronic triggers or twist shifter.

 

[sammcneill]

One customer was complaining about the fact that it is difficult to reach 45kmh with his supercharger 2 GT Vario. The mecanician said he had warned him... He told that it would be possible to convert it with the Rohloff e14 system and they have done that in the past... he just said that is a lot of work, so I can imagine that the price may exceed the EUR 2K...
That is why i decided to order the supercharger 2 GT Rohloff HS instead of the Vario model. I will post a review.

This is my story too! Albeit, I bought the supercharger 2 demo model off the floor and saved about NZD$2000 so I can live with the decision. I posted the journey and mentioned the high cadence required to hit 45kph here:

Reflections On Owning A Riese & Muller SuperCharger 2 eBike

eBikes are a big investment and there is growing choice - in this blog post I share my selection journey towards the Riese & Muller SuperCharger 2

samuelmcneill.com

I would love to hear your review with the Rohloff as I’m actively exploring a second bike with a Rohloff at the moment ....

thanks

Sam

 

[dblhelix]

This is my story too! Albeit, I bought the supercharger 2 demo model off the floor and saved about NZD$2000 so I can live with the decision. I posted the journey and mentioned the high cadence required to hit 45kph here:

Reflections On Owning A Riese & Muller SuperCharger 2 eBike

eBikes are a big investment and there is growing choice - in this blog post I share my selection journey towards the Riese & Muller SuperCharger 2

samuelmcneill.com

I would love to hear your review with the Rohloff as I’m actively exploring a second bike with a Rohloff at the moment ....

thanks

Sam

You won’t be ”sitting comfortably at 45 kph” with the Rohloff, even with Gen4. The motor’s assist begins to drop linearly to zero at 43 kph, independent of hub choice. The gear range of the Rohloff is indeed greater than the Enviolio’s, but do you need this? Based on your blog, I’d say no. My comments are based on having owned R&M’s with both hubs. My second comment is based on maintenance and service if Christchurch isn’t nearby for you. The Rohloff is a hassle. An example: my rear rotor needs replacing, an easy enough job on any other bike. Here I had to order an expensive proprietary rotor. Next, you are surprised by a paper gasket behind the E-14 shifter unit. In the US, there is only one source for this paper gasket, and it’s a “dealer only” item.

The 5000km oil change is simple enough, but should any other problem arise, investigate in advance what the service route is for you. Is the hub getting shipped to Aus, followed by a wheel rebuild on your dime? What is the turnaround time, say, for seal replacement? How are E-14 problems handled? I, and another person here have experienced E-14 error 595, which amounts to a cable problem, yet a lot of downtime.

Given your reasonably flat terrain, I’d stick with the enviolio. Comparatively, they are inexpensive to replace.

 

[dblhelix]

I also wasn't a huge fan of the Kiox's tiny number showing the gear you were in, or the button shifter. I wish they had spent R&D budget on a good set of electronic triggers

Rohloff sourced that button shifter from King-Meter, which supplies display kits for sub-$1000 ebikes. Note that in the US, the replacement cost of the ”Rohloff” button shifter (“dealer-only”) is $60!!

King Meter J-LCD Electric Bike Display Overview

Hi guys! While reviewing the Propella 2.2 electric bike, I had an opportunity to dig in on the King Meter J-LCD display panel control pad which is used on a wide variety of ebikes. It's not removable, not especially easy to swivel (if the clamp is overtightened), doesn't have any USB charging...

electricbikereview.com

 

[sammcneill]

You won’t be ”sitting comfortably at 45 kph” with the Rohloff, even with Gen4. The motor’s assist begins to drop linearly to zero at 43 kph, independent of hub choice. The gear range of the Rohloff is indeed greater than the Enviolio’s, but do you need this? Based on your blog, I’d say no. My comments are based on having owned R&M’s with both hubs. My second comment is based on maintenance and service if Christchurch isn’t nearby for you. The Rohloff is a hassle. An example: my rear rotor needs replacing, an easy enough job on any other bike. Here I had to order an expensive proprietary rotor. Next, you are surprised by a paper gasket behind the E-14 shifter unit. In the US, there is only one source for this paper gasket, and it’s a “dealer only” item.

The 5000km oil change is simple enough, but should any other problem arise, investigate in advance what the service route is for you. Is the hub getting shipped to Aus, followed by a wheel rebuild on your dime? What is the turnaround time, say, for seal replacement? How are E-14 problems handled? I, and another person here have experienced E-14 error 595, which amounts to a cable problem, yet a lot of downtime.

Given your reasonably flat terrain, I’d stick with the enviolio. Comparatively, they are inexpensive to replace.

Thanks @dblhelix,

Appreciate the feedback and experience you've had. I had a 10min test ride on a SuperDelite with Rohloff and it definitely could sit on 40kph+ with lower cadence than my Enviolo. I live in Christchurch so a couple of LBS that could service, but I thought (from reading) the Rohloff was basically 'service-less' - I know things can always go wrong, but heard they're pretty reliable...
I did a range test on the SC2 yesterday and did 101km with 1350m elevation with 33km left on the clock - including full camping gear. NEver went higher than Touring boost on the steeper hills. Was a great day, some photos here:

Sam McNeill on Twitter: "Starting out on a test ride for #ebike touring ... looking forward to it! https://t.co/Nd8YyBb2o8" / Twitter

Lastly, I got a reply from Jesper who saw my other post and shared this 'overdrive' config for the Enviolo which I'm going to explore for higher end gears:

I wasn't aware of it either but wondered and stumbled over this thread:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/enviolo-optimized-gear-correctly-configured.30990/

I compared the gear ratios between Rohloff and Nuvinci setups:
http://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=RLSH&KB...=KMH&DV=teeth&GR2=NU38&KB2=64&RZ2=28&UF2=2240

And had it confirmed here:
https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/i...harger-erfahrungsaustausch.52958/post-1507397

Where after I had my dealer, who also wasn't aware, perform the adjustment also described here:

And it made me enjoy my bike even more

Cheers,
Sam

 

[dblhelix]

Thanks @dblhelix,

Appreciate the feedback and experience you've had. I had a 10min test ride on a SuperDelite with Rohloff and it definitely could sit on 40kph+ with lower cadence than my Enviolo. I live in Christchurch so a couple of LBS that could service, but I thought (from reading) the Rohloff was basically 'service-less' - I know things can always go wrong, but heard they're pretty reliable...
I did a range test on the SC2 yesterday and did 101km with 1350m elevation with 33km left on the clock - including full camping gear. NEver went higher than Touring boost on the steeper hills. Was a great day, some photos here:

Sam McNeill on Twitter: "Starting out on a test ride for #ebike touring ... looking forward to it! https://t.co/Nd8YyBb2o8" / Twitter

Lastly, I got a reply from Jesper who saw my other post and shared this 'overdrive' config for the Enviolo which I'm going to explore for higher end gears:



Cheers,
Sam

My bad, it’s called Enviolo now. I knew it as NuVinci. I was addressing your desire to “sit comfortably at 45kph.” Not going to happen. I would agree that my cadence would be lower with the Rohloff at 40kph, but if I lived in a fairly flat area, I’d think carefully whether the cost and service path were worth it. I’m not sure what you mean by “service-free.” I just saw a post on Rohloff-en Instagram of a failed shifter unit, which they claim is due to an inadvertent collision with a kickstand or trailer. What I’m saying is that I’d check in advance what your service path is should you be this unlucky guy. Will the shop in Christchurch replace it on the spot with downtime of one day (good!)? Or, will the part need to go to an authorized service center in a different state or country where it may or may not be deemed a warranty issue (meh)? What if the seals need replacing during your warranty period? Does this happen locally or does the hub go elsewhere with weeks/months downtime? And so on.

 

[webcurl]

I did a range test on the SC2 yesterday and did 101km with 1350m elevation with 33km left on the clock - including full camping gear. NEver went higher than Touring boost on the steeper hills. Was a great day, some photos here:

Hi, sounds great, out of curiosity regarding range:
1000 or 1250Wh total battery.
Any idea of gross weight (bike, rider, gear).
SuperMotoX's or R&M Rock Razors.
I assume sealed roads all the way?
Average speed?