Rohloff E-14 / Bosch setup Rough shifting - rather disappointing

[JayH101]

I just acquired a new Co-motion Metolius tandem with a Bosch / Rohloff E-14 drive train.

This is my second Co-motion tandem and like the first one, the build quality is superb. The bike handles well and is a joy to ride, except . .

The drive train is rather disappointing. The Rohloff E-14 hub too often grinds into gears rather than shifting smoothly. It sounds like the gears aren’t meshing properly. Interestingly, the problem seems worse in the tour mode (2nd level assist). Occasionally it reminds of a derailleur that is out of adjustment. The other day I was leaving a stop sign and it seemed to slip for a moment before it engaged. Again, like a derailleur that had been shifted while stopped. I have it set to shift into 9th gear at a stop and had been riding in 11 – 12th gears. I should also note that we are not pushing hard during the shifts and try to initiate shifts at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

I’ve really tried everything I can think of to correct this. The belt tension is correct, the quick release skewer is not too tight and I’ve recalibrated the hub several times. All to no avail. The one thing that I think may be an issue, is the fact that I can’t feel any change in the motor output while shifting. I know this is very brief (186 ms???) but I seem to recall it being obvious on another similar system I rode a couple years ago. The one other thing that may be a hint to someone more knowledgeable than I, is the output of the Rohloff E-14 diagnostic app reported 23 failed shifts after about 250 miles of mostly flat pavement. Not sure if this is something to be concerned about, or to be expected.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!

FYI,

HW Version 5.1.0.0, SW Version 2.4.6.0, Gear Shifts 2729, Failed Shifts 23

 

[fooferdoggie]

I know the hub needs some serious miles to break in.
Rohloff hubs generally require a break-in period to function optimally. The manufacturer suggests this may require 500–1,000 miles (805–1,610 km) of active riding. For some riders the break-in period may be longer.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

The one thing that I think may be an issue, is the fact that I can’t feel any change in the motor output while shifting. I know this is very brief (186 ms???) but I seem to recall it being obvious on another similar system I rode a couple years ago.

Jay, sorry to hear you are having such troubles.

Have tried a manual recalibration?

I installed a (manual shift) Rohloff on my mid drive Luna Z1-eMTB 7 months ago. I have the 1500W Bafang Ultra mid-drive with 160nm at the cranks. I definitley have to momentarily pause when shifting under load, or at least shift at the bottom of the pedal stroke. I don't know anything about the "E-shift" version except that nearly all of the complaints I see about the Rohloff are centered around the E-14.

It seems to me that in the electronic shift verison, you should experience a momentary cut in power to the motor when shifting. It's the same hub. If you've paused your pedal rotation, or stopped applying force to the cranks, and the the motor is still aplying force to the chainring it will probably shift roughly. I'm not sure if I could detect a 180ms pause though.

"A light press of a button will reduce motor torque to permit a silky-smooth shift between gears. The secret is an ultra-fast, 180ms shift speed combined with an instantaneous drop in output torque from the motor..

• the support level of the transmission will be reduced
• the shift command will be sent to the Rohloff E-14 Shifter Unit
• the selected gear will be quickly and precisely engaged at the exact point where cranks are vertical (least human input force applied)
• the support level of the transmission will be re-applied
• this entire process will be completed in approximately 0.2 seconds" - Rohloff

Interesting that the system detects when the cranks are at 12-6 position.

Hope this helps.

~Tom

 

[dblhelix]

So the motor is on the rear crank? Which rider does the shifting, front or rear? Does letting off the pedals momentarily apply to both riders? Have you experienced your issues riding solo or with a partner?

 

[Tom@WashDC]

So the motor is on the rear crank? Which rider does the shifting, front or rear? Does letting off the pedals momentarily apply to both riders? Have you experienced your issues riding solo or with a partner?

OEM -motor at rear cranks, shifter up front.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have never really noticed much of a pause on bosch bikes but I have always given one myself.a bosch motor does not stop instantly so I find it takes longer then it does on a normal bike.

 

[JayH101]

I've seen many posts regarding system break-in and maybe I'm just being too impatient, but there is nothing "silky-smooth" about the way it shifts. That said, sometimes it does shift smoothly, it's kind of hit or miss. As far as the system detecting / shifting when the cranks are at the 12-6 position, if this is true, then there is absolutely a problem with the electronic shift control, because it will shift no matter what position the cranks are in. I guess the one thing that I keep thinking is that the motor output is not being interrupted during shifts. I know it's momentary, but my recollection is that it was noticeable on an identical demo bike I rode before purchase. I have access to a Riese & Muller e-bike with a nearly identical drive system. I may see if I can convince the owner to let me take it around the block to see how it shifts. It's a lot lighter than my bike, but it might give me a point of reference.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I have never really noticed much of a pause on bosch bikes but I have always given one myself.a bosch motor does not stop instantly so I find it takes longer then it does on a normal bike.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I've seen many posts regarding system break-in and maybe I'm just being too impatient, but there is nothing "silky-smooth" about the way it shifts. That said, sometimes it does shift smoothly, it's kind of hit or miss. As far as the system detecting / shifting when the cranks are at the 12-6 position, if this is true, then there is absolutely a problem with the electronic shift control,

Aside form testing out that other R&M, I guess the next thing to do is to try recalibrating the shift mechanism.

E-14 Auto Calibration
E-14 Manual Calibration

 

[dblhelix]

I've seen many posts regarding system break-in and maybe I'm just being too impatient, but there is nothing "silky-smooth" about the way it shifts. That said, sometimes it does shift smoothly, it's kind of hit or miss. As far as the system detecting / shifting when the cranks are at the 12-6 position, if this is true, then there is absolutely a problem with the electronic shift control, because it will shift no matter what position the cranks are in. I guess the one thing that I keep thinking is that the motor output is not being interrupted during shifts. I know it's momentary, but my recollection is that it was noticeable on an identical demo bike I rode before purchase. I have access to a Riese & Muller e-bike with a nearly identical drive system. I may see if I can convince the owner to let me take it around the block to see how it shifts. It's a lot lighter than my bike, but it might give me a point of reference.

Motor pause - It is barely noticeable as everyone else has stated.
Gear 7 is noisy for all.
I would talk to Co-Motion as well.

 

[JayH101]

Aside form testing out that other R&M, I guess the next thing to do is to try recalibrating the shift mechanism.

E-14 Auto Calibration
E-14 Manual Calibration

I've completed the auto calibration several times, but I was unaware of the manual calibration procedure. It looks like it might be worth trying. First though, as suggested by dblhelix, I think I'm going to give Co-Motion a call and get their recommendation. TNX