Riding Shoes; In Search of Something Better *Update!

[J.R.]

I purchased my first pair of 5.10 riding shoes in 2014.

Five Ten was its own company back then. They made their name, primarily, in climbing shoes. Then came other sporting pursuits. Note the materials list. These were leather, a little fabric and rubber sole. Awesome shoe! The upper was made outside the USA, the Stealth rubber sole was made in California and the shoe assembly was also done in California.

Sole:

I still have these shoes, and they can be worn, but after thousands of miles the contact area of the sole is worn flat. These shoes were so sticky and locked into the pedal studs like no other shoes I've ridden in. Note the size of the round lugs on the sole. They were crazy good and comfortable.

The next 2 pair of 5.10 shoes were after Adidas purchased the company. Soles and assembly were no longer in California and the sole material and style were dramatically changed. My first Adidas 5.10 had some leather trim, the next all man made. Now the soles are slippery, with a lot less grip and the latter due to the change in lugs.

Even in the photo of the newer sole, it reflects light, as though it is plastic and not rubber. The new soles are very slippery on hard surfaces and if the hard surfaces are wet...

I know there are fans of 5.10 here, as was I. Given my 11-year experience, the shoes aren't as good as they once were. I'm not saying the shoes are terrible. They could very well be the best MTB flats available. I am on a search for something better.

Today I ordered a pair of:

Fox Racing Men's Fox Union Canvas Mountain Bike Shoe​

They have larger lugs as well. Better? Worse? I won't know until I ride them for a while. Has anyone had experience with them? Do you have any suggestions for me to look at?

 

[J.R.]

An infomercial for the Fox Union Canvas Shoe

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@J.R. there is nothing better than Adidas FiveTen Freerider Pro. Trust me.
I bought my last pair in March 2021 and am riding them until today, even if the top is already frayed.
Excellent pedal grip, toe protection, ideal cycling shoes for me.

Which I cannot say of Specialized 2FO, which I have also tried. Two different worlds!

 

[BlackHand]

My FiveTen Stealth Deluxe have been great - but I'm disappointed in their durability. They just don't hold up if worn daily/regularly. The dots are worn totally smooth on the sole from walking. And the outsole is separating from the body of the shoe where it flexes.

The Shimano GF7's I also have grip the pedals better and show basically no wear after just as much bike time - but they aren't very comfortable off the bike so much less time walking around in them.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

@J.R. there is nothing better than Adidas FiveTen Freerider Pro. Trust me.
I bought my last pair in March 2021 and am riding them until today, even if the top is already frayed.
Excellent pedal grip, toe protection, ideal cycling shoes for me.

Which I cannot say of Specialized 2FO, which I have also tried. Two different worlds!

I bought these Adidas on your recommendation, among others', and I like them a lot — despite the slipperiness on smooth hard surfaces also noted by @J.R. above.

Though the soles are too stiff for long walks — as they should be for flat-pedal riding — these shoes are otherwise among the most comfortable I own, period. If there were a walking version, I'd buy it.

The Adidas have the generous toe box my old feet need. The Specialized 2FO I tried are quite cramped in that department. No experience with other cycling shoes.

 

[spokewrench]

So the Adidas 5 10 is a climbing shoe, and Adidas markets one version as a cycle shoe. That made me curious. I turned to Wikipedia. It says even touring cyclists used to strap their shoes into toe cages, which was inconvenient and dangerous. (My brother did that to race.) It says modern cycle shoes have plastic or steel cleats to engage pedals. (Some have leather soles; hence the need for cleats: otherwise, the leather would wear fast and sometimes be slippery.)

It says cycle shoes have stiff soles. That's to be expected of you're putting your weight on a little cleat.

I looked into the history of 5 10's. Customers loved them because the rubber gave them lots of grip climbing rocks. They were sometimes called Five Tennies. They looked like tennis shoes. I like what might be called boat shoes. To me, the difference is that tennis shoes have a bit of padding to absorb shocks.

A lot of pedals these days have pins or coarse teeth. I grew to hate them for three reasons. Every once in a while, I'd get my shin gouged, especially when walking a bike backward in the garage. If I looked down and saw that my foot wasn't right where I wanted it on the pedal, moving it half an inch was a hassle. Pedaling on coarse teeth or pins could be uncomfortable.

I've been using these for 5 months.

Amazon.com

With more surface area and no pins, I don't need stiff soles and they're comfortable even in socks. The surface feels like coarse sandpaper, but it doesn't wear smooth like sandpaper. It's like the tape used on steps, indoors or out. I can ride comfortably in whatever footwear I happen to be wearing. To get a long power stroke, I start with a kick at top dead center. Wet or dry, I haven't slipped on these pedals.

 

[mschwett]

…I've been using these for 5 months.

Amazon.com

With more surface area and no pins, I don't need stiff soles and they're comfortable even in socks. The surface feels like coarse sandpaper, but it doesn't wear smooth like sandpaper. It's like the tape used on steps, indoors or out. I can ride comfortably in whatever footwear I happen to be wearing. To get a long power stroke, I start with a kick at top dead center. Wet or dry, I haven't slipped on these pedals.

I use pedals like that on my commuter, but the whole surface is that grit material. no risk to shins and works with any shoe. https://www.motobicycles.com/en-us/products/moto-reflex-flat-pedale

not terribly suited to trail riding, but very utilitarian, safe, grippy, no nooks and crannies to get dirty. of course on my road bikes i clip in, and prefer the speedplay system which very easily self centers the pedal and shoe/cleat for perfect foot position every time.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I looked into the history of 5 10's. Customers loved them because the rubber gave them lots of grip climbing rocks. They were sometimes called Five Tennies. They looked like tennis shoes. I like what might be called boat shoes. To me, the difference is that tennis shoes have a bit of padding to absorb shocks.

No.

Five Ten made rock climbing shoes and slippers starting in the mid 80's. You didn't walk very much in rock climbing shoes. For one thing, they were wicked uncomfortable and not at all designed to be walked in. For another, the soft sticky rubber they were famous for would quickly become contaminated by dirt and wouldn't stick as well. For still another, that rubber was very soft and would wear out quickly. Rock climbing shoes are really made to do Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon stuff on stone and nothing else.

They introduced a walking or approach shoe in the late 1980s branded as the "Five Tennie". The shoe had slightly less sticky rubber that still wore out far too quickly. They were also uncomfortably stiff for walking and heavy compared to a decent trail runner. They largely were sold to people who wanted to look like Crag Rats and Hardmen. Some people actually used them to move over stone, though.

This is more the early 90's vintage but the distinctive bright green laces bring back memories...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It says cycle shoes have stiff soles. That's to be expected of you're putting your weight on a little cleat.

You seem to be confused with different types of pedals. There are so called 'clipless' pedals and shoes using cleats. There are also cycling shoes for flat (platform) pedals, which are often equipped with traction pins. The sole of a cycling shoe needs to be stiff to efficiently transfer the power from the foot to the pedal.

The OP needs shoes for platform pedals. It takes the two to tango: the shoes and the pedals. I recommend Crankbrothers Stamp pedals, models from 1 to 3 (composite or metal), and these can be regular or Large.

The combination of Adidas Five Ten Freerider Pro with traction pin platform pedals is something I can recommend to anyone. There is nothing like "slippery" for such a combination.

 

[keithj69]

Strangely there was a 5.10 dump at Ross recently. At least in the area I am. I checked one the other day and found some, but not in my size.

 

[spokewrench]

You seem to be confused with different types of pedals. There are so called 'clipless' pedals and shoes using cleats. There are also cycling shoes for flat (platform) pedals, which are often equipped with traction pins. The sole of a cycling shoe needs to be stiff to efficiently transfer the power from the foot to the pedal.

The OP needs shoes for platform pedals. It takes the two to tango: the shoes and the pedals. I recommend Crankbrothers Stamp pedals, models from 1 to 3 (composite or metal), and these can be regular or Large.

The combination of Adidas Five Ten Freerider Pro with traction pin platform pedals is something I can recommend to anyone. There is nothing like "slippery" for such a combination.

Confused? As I stated, I reported what Wikipedia said. All have stiff soles and cleats.

Cycling shoe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I believe stiff soles are like low bars. Low bars are good for reducing air drag if you want to pedal yourself as fast as possible and for flipping a bike back and forth to get in and out of tight turns. They're bad for stability, comfort, and pedaling efficiency, but most bikes these days seem to follow the fashion. Similarly, if I used cleated cycling shoes for a road bike like @mschwett, I'd probably find stiff soles advantageous. I'd definitely want stiff soles if I pedaled with my insteps, as your photo shows. I find it better to use the ball of my foot so I can employ my calf muscles, as in walking or running.

I do not equate stiff soles with efficiency. Horses have stiff hooves but became extinct in North America when men in moccasins pursued them to exhaustion. When Europeans arrived in stiff-soled footwear, they could not walk nearly as fast or far as natives in moccasins.

I believe your pedals and mine are both considered plain platform pedals. “Platform” means the area is large enough for flexible soles. “Plain” means there’s no mechanism to hold the shoe in a certain position. The question is whether the pins are necessary.

One morning 4 years ago I came to a muddy area that I couldn’t ride around. My darned Radrunner handled so badly on soft stuff that I got off and walked it through. A lot of mud was stuck to my soles when I remounted. The OE pedals had sawteeth to penetrate the mud and lots of space for it to squeeze out, so my shoes didn’t slide.
If mountain bikers often mount with boots that muddy, I can see why they would want such pedals. However, an e-bike can be throttled to a place where soles and pedals can be scraped.

I’ve never again had to mount with so much mud on my shoes. However, my driveway is unpaved. I have a lot of trees. I keep the leaves from killing the grass by mowing with a sharp blade. In the 5 months I’ve had my “sandpaper” pedals, I’m mounted too many times to count with mud and wet leaf fragments on my soles. The gritty surface of the pedals is coarse enough that it hasn’t mattered.

With these pedals I could ride barefoot to minimize the weight I had to lift on each rotation. I want some protection, so I use these.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRMYNDT6?
If I know I’ll be in rain, snow, or mud, I’ll wear these.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0076SM8T0?
They’re only slightly heavier, but the soles are stiff and I find that inefficient.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I do not equate stiff soles with efficiency. Horses have stiff hooves but became extinct in North America when men in moccasins pursued them to exhaustion. When Europeans arrived in stiff-soled footwear, they could not walk nearly as fast or far as natives in moccasins.

Do a longer ride on flat traction pin pedals in soft shoes and in proper still sole cycling shoes then you'll understand the difference.

 

[spokewrench]

Do a longer ride on flat traction pin pedals in soft shoes and in proper still sole cycling shoes then you'll understand the difference.

Adidas may market your shoes as bike shoes, but Sheldon Brown doesn’t mention any kind of bike shoes except the ones mechanically fixed to the pedals.

He says the beauty of plain pedals is that you don’t need bike shoes. He says open-cage plain pedals like yours should be used with stiff soles, but he doesn’t mention efficiency. With pedals like that, flexible soles would be uncomfortable.

Brown says using bike shoes, the ones that lock into position, has the psychological effect of increasing cadence. He says more importantly, they prevent injury. With a plain pedal, your foot could be improperly positioned on the pedal, which could cause a serious knee injury on a long ride.

Now I recall, shin gouges weren’t the biggest reason I hated open-cage pedals. In my youth, with flexible soles and rubber-block pedals, my feet positioned themselves by feel. With e-bikes, a foot was often badly out of position when I looked down. Worse, I couldn’t simply adjust it. I had to lift my foot and try my luck again.

I unscrewed the pins. Now I could adjust foot position, but it was no longer necessary because they always seemed to be within a centimeter of where I wanted them. Without the pins, my feet could feel where they were and slide into the position without conscious effort. What’s more, my feet didn’t slip on the pedals even if I mounted on a wet lawn. The sandpaper style pedals work even better.

I’d like to take a longer e-bike ride, but it looks as if my e-biking days are over, except of course when I spot the vehicle of a beautiful automobilist whom I must catch in order to honk at. With my super pedals and super shoes, I’ve come to enjoy pedaling so much that reaching the top of a hill is disappointing. I’ve pedaled 48 miles since my last charge, and the display reads 98% left. It’s a 14.4 Ah 48V battery that still reads 53.2 V.

 

[J.R.]

@J.R. there is nothing better than Adidas FiveTen Freerider Pro. Trust me.
I bought my last pair in March 2021 and am riding them until today, even if the top is already frayed.
Excellent pedal grip, toe protection, ideal cycling shoes for me.

Which I cannot say of Specialized 2FO, which I have also tried. Two different worlds!

They may be the best. These are 3 of the 4 pair I've purchased over 11 years. One pair of Freeriders are gone, the other I still have, plus their original MTB shoe, the Spitfire. I also have a pair of their hikers.

The changes Adidas made has me wanting better. I won't know until I try, and Fox Racing has made a name in MTB and Motocross, so it looks like a good place to start. I'll give a first impression soon.

 

[J.R.]

Adidas may market your shoes as bike shoes, but Sheldon Brown doesn’t mention any kind of bike shoes except the ones mechanically fixed to the pedals.

He says the beauty of plain pedals is that you don’t need bike shoes. He says open-cage plain pedals like yours should be used with stiff soles, but he doesn’t mention efficiency. With pedals like that, flexible soles would be uncomfortable.

Brown says using bike shoes, the ones that lock into position, has the psychological effect of increasing cadence. He says more importantly, they prevent injury. With a plain pedal, your foot could be improperly positioned on the pedal, which could cause a serious knee injury on a long ride.

Now I recall, shin gouges weren’t the biggest reason I hated open-cage pedals. In my youth, with flexible soles and rubber-block pedals, my feet positioned themselves by feel. With e-bikes, a foot was often badly out of position when I looked down. Worse, I couldn’t simply adjust it. I had to lift my foot and try my luck again.

I unscrewed the pins. Now I could adjust foot position, but it was no longer necessary because they always seemed to be within a centimeter of where I wanted them. Without the pins, my feet could feel where they were and slide into the position without conscious effort. What’s more, my feet didn’t slip on the pedals even if I mounted on a wet lawn. The sandpaper style pedals work even better.

I’d like to take a longer e-bike ride, but it looks as if my e-biking days are over, except of course when I spot the vehicle of a beautiful automobilist whom I must catch in order to honk at. With my super pedals and super shoes, I’ve come to enjoy pedaling so much that reaching the top of a hill is disappointing. I’ve pedaled 48 miles since my last charge, and the display reads 98% left. It’s a 14.4 Ah 48V battery that still reads 53.2 V.

Sheldon was amazing! Website is still good and full of info, but Sheldon died in 2008 and MTB flats really didn't catch on until around 2010-2012, when dedicated MTB flats hit the market. In 2014, when I purchased my first MTB flats, many traditionalists refused to acknowledge then as having any value. These days people are breaking records with them.

 

[spokewrench]

They may be the best. These are 3 of the 4 pair I've purchased over 11 years. One pair of Freeriders are gone, the other I still have, plus their original MTB shoe, the Spitfire. I also have a pair of their hikers.

The changes Adidas made has me wanting better. I won't know until I try, and Fox Racing has made a name in MTB and Motocross, so it looks like a good place to start. I'll give a first impression soon.

They remind me of boots I got at REI in Seattle in 1975. Light and tough and durable and kept my feet dry.

 

[J.R.]

New shoes! Fox Union Canvas MTB shoes. First impressions out of the box; the sole is stickier than my most recent 5.10, but not as sticky as my original 5.10 Spitfire from 2014. I really like the styling and the color. The fit is spot on and the footbed is comfortable. The soles of the Fox and 5.10 are equally stiff. The armored rubber toe cap looks like more protection against strikes. The grip on pedal studs seems to be excellent.

Obviously, no verdict yet, as I haven't ridden them yet. These Fox shoes appear to be very well made. Time will tell. More options for quality riding shoes is a good thing. Competition helps keep quality up and prices down.




Riding update to come. Maybe I'll hit the trail wearing one Fox and one 5.10.

 

[mschwett]

New shoes! Fox Union Canvas MTB shoes. First impressions out of the box; the sole is stickier than my most recent 5.10, but not as sticky as my original 5.10 Spitfire from 2014. I really like the styling and the color. The fit is spot on and the footbed is comfortable. The soles of the Fox and 5.10 are equally stiff. The armored rubber toe cap looks like more protection against strikes. The grip on pedal studs seems to be excellent.

Obviously, no verdict yet, as I haven't ridden them yet. These Fox shoes appear to be very well made. Time will tell. More options for quality riding shoes is a good thing. Competition helps keep quality up and prices down.

View attachment 189765
View attachment 189766

Riding update to come. Maybe I'll hit the trail wearing one Fox and one 5.10.

how heavy are those guys? i really disliked the weight of the 510s.

 

[J.R.]

how heavy are those guys? i really disliked the weight of the 510s.

Fox says 373g/13.2oz, but it doesn't state size for that weight. I wear 45/11.5 and they feel a little lighter than 5.10, but not by that much. I don't have a scale to weigh something that light.