Review Video of R & M 2024 models

[peterh_nz]

Chris Nolte of Propel Bikes recently posted an excellent review video of the 2024 R & M models:

"2024 Riese and Muller Updates | NEW eBikes, Motors, Tech, & More!"

Some interesting and exciting developments.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wow! The Culture, probably the first lightweight e-bike based on the Bosch SX motor!

 

[Catalyzt]

Wow! The Culture, probably the first lightweight e-bike based on the Bosch SX motor!

Do we know the weight of the Culture? (I avoid video product reviews, too time consuming, give me stats, stats, stats!) It certainly does not look like it is under 50 pounds.

While scanning the comments for stats, I read this:

"E-bikes will need all these "complicated" stuff to keep up with this desired future, so bring on the ABS!"

I didn't know Satan was allowed to post comments on YouTube. News Flash: The 'desired future' has never arrived, and is unlikely to arrive anytime soon. And lots of us are sick to death of being told what we 'need.'

I'm not exactly unbiased, of course. I'm still looking for a way to retrofit the electric windows in my sports car to hand cranks because a lot of older designs are simply more efficient, require less maintenance, and result in a lower carbon footprint. And I'm a senior citizen with have stage 3 osteoarthritis.

As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a bicycle? It is not easy to learn to brake properly, it's true, and I had a bad crash the first time I rode down a hill. I knocked the tail light of a Studebaker!

But I was four years old. It only happened once.

I don't dislike R&M generally, just think this is exactly the wrong direction. Unless it's under 50 pounds!

 

[Jean-Paul B.]

"As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a bicycle?"
Pretty funny.
I have already heard this argument twice in my life :
1 - As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a car ?
2 - As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a motorbike ?
Never heard it about horse riding, however......

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Do we know the weight of the Culture?

Christ Nolte said "46 lbs" (21 kg) for the least complicated new Culture (the one with the chain/derailleur and rigid fork). For your information, that's what the most heavy Specialized SL e-bike (Como SL) weighs, and Como SL weight results from the IGH. Here are example weights of several Specialized SL e-bikes:

• Vado SL 5.0 unequipped: less than 15 kg (no extras, a carbon fork)
• Vado SL 4.0 EQ: 17 kg (added rear rack, fenders, an alloy fork)
• Creo SL: 12-13 kg

All with a 240 W mid-drive motor and a 320 Wh battery. For those of you who have not seen an SL e-bike in person, I just want to tell you Spec has put a lot of R&D and engineering to make the SL e-bikes really lightweight. There is nothing that could unnecessarily increase the SL e-bike weight, starting with gravel grade 38 mm tyre wheels (Vado SL) or lack of any suspension (except the superlightweight FutureShock on some models). (In the single situation of adding the IGH, the Como SL has turned out to be surprisingly heavy).

I do not want to bash Riese & Muller but the brand seems to be unable to think lightweight. Big tyres, thick frame, IGH whenever possible, and all possible gadgets they could attach to their e-bikes. (A long time Rohloff apostles now discovering the Enviolo Automatiq?)

Jean-Paul: You are a fine person, and an R&M fan. I'm far from blaming you for liking R&M e-bikes. However, the Catalyst's "learn to ride a bicycle" is a valid comment. You mentioned a scenario of slippage on wet autumn leaves as the reason of having the ABS on an e-bike. Wet leaves are almost as bad as black ice. Do you know what experienced cyclists do when they see wet leaves? They dramatically slow down A bicycle is neither a motorcycle nor car. With sudden braking on wet leaves, expect the rear wheel slip sideways first, and no ABS will help crashing there.

A suspension fork? This model looks 24 kg to me. Same as the 2017 full power Vado 5.0 with a rigid fork.

Which of these two e-bikes looks lightweight?

 

[Catalyzt]

"As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a bicycle?"
Pretty funny.
I have already heard this argument twice in my life :
1 - As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a car ?
2 - As an alternative to ABS, one might... learn to ride a motorbike ?
Never heard it about horse riding, however......

I hear you, I'm indulging in a bit of hyperbole, and a bit of an extremist in some of my mechanical tastes!

My main issue with ABS on eBikes is whether the added safety benefit would justify the additional weight, or if the safety benefit is really that significant. As Stefan noted, on two wheels, the required technique for managing black ice or wet leaves-- beyond just slowing down, which is simplest-- can be quite tricky. The interplay of front and rear breaks is also more complicated, I think; do we really want tech deciding on the best braking technique? I really don't know, now that I think about it. There are so many variables that come into play. I've had near misses where losing traction completely, for just a split second, seemed to help me turn away from oncoming traffic. It's really hard to deconstruct what happened, but on two wheels, I'm inclined to trust my human/animal instincts more than electronics. On four, I would-- grudgingly-- trust ABS.

That said? It is very irritating driving my older car in LA sometimes, because drivers of late-model cars tend to allow less space between vehicles-- they tailgate more, and they get irritated if I do not follow the car in front of me very closely. I prefer to allow more distance than most of the other people on the road, and I think ABS sort of encourages that.

On the other hand, I do not believe that wearing a helmet encourages drivers to be more reckless; I don't ride or ski any differently with or without one.

Do I have any proof of any of this? Absolutely not. I'm indulging in wild speculation. Thanks to all for humoring me!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Norwegian mechanical engineer who I respect very much once said: 'As you know, we are allowed to use studded tyres in our cars for the winter. I use non-studded premium Nokian winter tyres. You know why? It is because water covered black ice cannot be helped even with the studded tyres. The drivers who drive studded tyre cars feel immortal and drive recklessly. I understand the limitation of my car and just drive very carefully'.