This is more of a dream than a reality, at this point, but it's been something I've been curious about the answer to. If I were to ever customize some bikes on Alibaba and resell in the US, what kind of liability do I have in case of a defect (ie a battery burning up)? I know that's a loaded question and best for a lawyer, but I'm not about to start doing this anytime soon so I'm really just trying to get an idea of what kind of hurdle liability presents vs concrete answers. I know it isn't for the US, but let's say I ensure whatever I sell is CE compliant... so in other words there is some due diligence done in sourcing the product. Thanks.
Reselling Alibaba Bikes
- Thread starter jkvt
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Taylor57
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DiggyGun
Well-Known Member
- Region
- United Kingdom
- City
- Buckinghamshire
If you customise something that is CE Marked, you are deemed the manufacturer. The original CE Marking could now be compromised and you, as the manufacturer, would need to get new EC Type Examination (CE Marking) undertaken by an approved EU Notified Body, to prove that it still meets the relevant EU Norms. If you are outside the EU, you would also need to have an EU based Representative.
Thanks, yeah CE was just an example... ie went out of the way to get a product that has some kind of accepted international certification, vs some random POS for the lowest cost. That is a good point though that changing the item will mean it's not even CE compliant. As far as I know, CE has no weight, in the US, from a regulatory standpoint anyways. I could see something saying I'm responsible if I didn't do any kind of due diligence, but if I did and something still happened, well such is life (sort of, everyone sues everyone for everything here).
harryS
Well-Known Member
Well, there's a lot of people doing exactly that, or they started that way,with random stuff at low cost. Sondors did it. Voltbike and Rad motors too. Add Lectric. I remember when the Ride1Up founder had just received his first load of bikes and was posting here.
We bought an EG ebike in 2015. The bike shop called the owner to ask why the bike wouldn't power up, as he had a buyer ready to take it home. They were told to unplug/replug the display cable. I was dubious, but that was the only time the bike never powered up. Anyway, EG is still around, but I bet the owner still has a day job to pay the bills. He didn't luck into fat tire bikes.
You want UL/CSA in North America, Probably cost five figures these days to test one model. Ugh
I think the supply line constraints, and having to go to China to actually meet the vendors and see the goods are deal breakers. And if you come up with a design that makes you special. within six weeks, it's been copied, emulated, stolen, whatever.
We bought an EG ebike in 2015. The bike shop called the owner to ask why the bike wouldn't power up, as he had a buyer ready to take it home. They were told to unplug/replug the display cable. I was dubious, but that was the only time the bike never powered up. Anyway, EG is still around, but I bet the owner still has a day job to pay the bills. He didn't luck into fat tire bikes.
You want UL/CSA in North America, Probably cost five figures these days to test one model. Ugh
I think the supply line constraints, and having to go to China to actually meet the vendors and see the goods are deal breakers. And if you come up with a design that makes you special. within six weeks, it's been copied, emulated, stolen, whatever.
rich c
Well-Known Member
I'd call it a nightmare. You do see all the complaining about bad suppliers, late deliveries, and damaged shipments? Buyers expect perfection and will want to return the bikes for any number of reasons. Plus they will not tolerate late shipping and especially get angry when you don't stock parts. Then look at the number of companies that are shipping Alibaba eBikes every day. It's a super competitive market. Then consider what happens to you when a frame breaks and the rider is killed. It'll take millions to pay that off.
Thanks for all the replies. Really my main concern is just liability. I feel like I have a supplier in mind that I've bought a few ebikes from and they have been great to work with, before and after the sale. They were not the cheapest, but still night and day from what it costs to buy domestically.
If I ever did something like this it would be a side thing, like buy 10 of the same bikes and try to sell them locally out of the garage and see how it goes, just on craigslist and maybe a small website. People like buying locally around here and if I just did it as a side thing like that it would be easy to undercut some bigger resellers with better components and still get a bit of a profit, even if there are some minor defects here and there. Heck it would be simple to undercut some sellers even if I had to go in and, on my dime, replace the motors on every single bike. It's nuts what some of the bigger resellers charge for what you get. I won't name names, but some of the bigger "hunting" bike sellers are so overpriced, bikes and accessories and that's kind of what has me wanting to do this. Good bikes, for sure, but for $6000 a pop, I could buy two bikes with better components and that's without and kind of discount for mass production (but, at the cost of customer service). It would be fun to just connect local people to good bikes without ripping them off.
Obviously from a buyer's perspective, I'm a guy in a garage, and not a big reseller, so that's the trade off to get the right customer. Basically someone who knows bikes enough to know what they are getting into and is willing to trade a big name for a guy in a garage who will sell you a considerably cheaper bike with really solid components.
If I ever did something like this it would be a side thing, like buy 10 of the same bikes and try to sell them locally out of the garage and see how it goes, just on craigslist and maybe a small website. People like buying locally around here and if I just did it as a side thing like that it would be easy to undercut some bigger resellers with better components and still get a bit of a profit, even if there are some minor defects here and there. Heck it would be simple to undercut some sellers even if I had to go in and, on my dime, replace the motors on every single bike. It's nuts what some of the bigger resellers charge for what you get. I won't name names, but some of the bigger "hunting" bike sellers are so overpriced, bikes and accessories and that's kind of what has me wanting to do this. Good bikes, for sure, but for $6000 a pop, I could buy two bikes with better components and that's without and kind of discount for mass production (but, at the cost of customer service). It would be fun to just connect local people to good bikes without ripping them off.
Obviously from a buyer's perspective, I'm a guy in a garage, and not a big reseller, so that's the trade off to get the right customer. Basically someone who knows bikes enough to know what they are getting into and is willing to trade a big name for a guy in a garage who will sell you a considerably cheaper bike with really solid components.
rich c
Well-Known Member
I built a small business from a long term dream. I did it part time for years before going full time. It takes a different individual who doesn't mind making small money for long hours to get a business going. I lasted 8 years before the passion burnt out. Feeling that a pretty good year had been wrapped up, then going to the accountant for tax time brought me back to reality when a few more thousand was sent to the Feds. You don't have one boss like a day job, you get a new boss every job. A small business in a garage is fine, if you carry a million dollars of liability. Also don't forget about disability. A one man shop is not really a business. It's that one guy. If you get hurt on a ride and break some bones, there is no business while you heal.
DiggyGun
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- Region
- United Kingdom
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- Buckinghamshire
I agree with this, in the UK I set up my consultancy practice as a registered legal Limited business.
That way, the business has liability insurance ands it’s structure which protects my personal property.
tomjasz
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- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
None. The shipping for many is stalled. I'm seeing my Alibaba orders with delivery dates in July. Day6 bikes due this week moved to spring of 2023. Just now that would be a scary move.
tomjasz
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- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
I did an LLC. A smart move!
tomjasz
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- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
A fellow here in SE MN did just that. Sadly he was clueless. Several bikes sat for several years and were sold as new but with bad battery sag. Unkown brand, oddball components, and a lousy margin. He was also useless at troubleshooting and general bike repairs. Customer service and support are an adventure. And payment systems like PayPal can be brutal. I'd consider installing kits and growing into selling complete eBikes.
tomjasz
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- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
I’m a flat lander so hub motors are a superior fit. I could easily install 6 MAC kits a week. Consider a eBikes.ca dealer. Install kits that are simply the best planned out for wiring especially. An LLC, there are budget legal service’s online. You’ll may need a Federal EIN number for distribution to sell to you at wholesale.
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