Recommended Class 3 ebike (Juiced CCX Purchase)

[Rick53]

Another approach you may want to consider is a "professional" or custom conversion, using a new bike as a donor bike. I am an experienced cyclist, too, (own a Specialized carbon road bike and Specialized hardtail mtb) and when I was shopping for my ebike I was concerned about getting locked into a manufacturer's proprietary system with uncertain support in a few years as models change rather quickly, and also considering rapidly evolving changes in motor and battery technology. So I became interested in more of an "open source" opt,ion.

A local LBS sells several models of factory ebikes, but has also been doing custom conversions for a number of years. So, I went with a new Trek Dual Sport 3 outfitted with a Bafang BBSH02 500W motor. Total cost was $2500. I only have about 2000 miles on it at this point but I'm very happy with it. I have a solid bike under me, a decently powered motor (with throttle), both with warranty and LBS support, and easily repaired or upgraded. I wanted a bike for fun and exercise and although the motor and battery add some weight, it rides like a regular bike and handles well. I get about 50 miles of range. It seems like professional conversions with new bikes don't get mentioned too often on this forum but it was a very good solution for me.

So If I already have that same Dual Sport and a Trek 2020 Verve 3 . I could do what you did for roughly 1500.00? I am fairly mechanical : It's hard to tell from Pictures but maybe I could do this Myself? I a different note there's something to be said for Internal cable routing and battery being built in to the frame

 

[planetbike]

@Browneye, I ordered a CCX. I don't necessarily need the range, but the S2 is backordered, and maybe I got suckered into getting a cheap rack.

I probably would be happier with a mid drive, but it's flat as a pancake here, and I just need to get to work fast/convenient/safe, especially when it's 100 or more outside. Maybe the Youtube video of Tora flying through China had a little something to do with it...lol. I think my sense was that it was more than enough bike for what I need, and right now, I had the money in the bank, whereas a $3500 FastRoad or Vado was well past my immediate budget.

My main priority was getting 'outside'--more fresh air, being healthier, and using my car less, while maintaining work/time productivity. If indeed I am commuting all the time and I graduate out of the bike, then I'd say it would have been a successful pilot and worthy of another investment. At the IRS mileage rate, not using the car is a good deal. With the CCX, assuming all goes well, I can get to/from work maybe only 10-15 minutes longer than it currently takes, while also wearing business professional clothing and not looking like I just stepped out of the sauna in the hotter months.

Like you, maybe I'll have a quiver full of eBikes to choose from one day--only justified if I'm putting in the miles.

 

[Rob2000]

So If I already have that same Dual Sport and a Trek 2020 Verve 3 . I could do what you did for roughly 1500.00? I am fairly mechanical : It's hard to tell from Pictures but maybe I could do this Myself? I a different note there's something to be said for Internal cable routing and battery being built in to the frame

You could certainly do it yourself, there is a DIY section on here, also lots of videos on YT. I think I paid about $300 for installation, so you could probably do it for about $1000-$1200 depending on options.

Yes, internal cable routing and integrated battery are nice, but then you are adding a considerable amount to the cost.

 

[Rob2000]

On another note, it's interesting hearing a major, successful bike shop in our area talk about how they're selling more eBikes recently than regular bikes. And yet if you walked in and looked at what's on the floor, they only had a few. Times are a changin'.

I think there's opportunity for bike shops to stay and even thrive in business, but some of the business model may need to change. For example, like the auto leases that many people have, I'd sign up for a subscription model that allows me to upgrade the bike (and perhaps parts) periodically as new ones are released--and I'd prefer going through the LBS to get local service. The increasing change in eBike technology means that people are going to want to buy and cycle through bikes more quickly, which may support that type of model. A LBS also has the opportunity to be somewhat brand neutral.

Earlier on the forum I read someone arguing that there will be a major consolidation of the eBike market, but whether or not that happens, I do not see that happening in the short term. There is too much consumer experimentation to suggest serious bike brand loyalty, and the purchasing habits of younger consumers (yes, millennials) only add to that. But loyalty to an excellent LBS that delivers unrivaled, personalized service to the growing number of bike commuters (and often new riders) in a particular geographical or urban area, I think is a real opportunity.

I was in Europe a couple of months ago, and there were ebikes all over the place.

The subscription idea makes sense and appears to be coming to Europe as well.

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[Browneye]

@Browneye, I ordered a CCX. I don't necessarily need the range, but the S2 is backordered, and maybe I got suckered into getting a cheap rack.
>snip

I think you'll love it. Those things are FAST!

 

[planetbike]

I will not be riding that fast unless I get some serious gear! 22-24mph will be just peachy. I hope with some decent Shimano pedals, I can get a satisfactory spinning motion going on.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Browneye, I ordered a CCX.

Congratulations! After you get the bike @planetbike and get some experience please tell us how the CCX behaved and what you think about the practical range. Almost 1000 Wh battery and the 500 W motor, high speed, let us see how that works!

One of my bikes has a rear-hub 250W motor (not Bafang) and a 576 Wh battery. Summertime rides in unrestricted mode but riding not faster than 20 mph gave me the range of 57.8 miles. Restricted to 15.5 mph, the bike could get to 83.9 miles. The speed has a terrific effect on the range.

 

[planetbike]

This is a rare, wonderful internet forum. Thanks for all the high fives and support. I have unfortunately moved to a town and county that is really unfriendly to cyclists, so I appreciate it a lot. There aren’t a lot of (if any) safe rides to do from my house that get anywhere close to 80+ miles, as my city is a distant, but overcrowded suburb with two lane rural infrastructure that is woefully inadequate, and the only other options are huge highways with busy strip mall type businesses surrounding. Insane drivers, everyone is constantly looking down at their phones, drive 55+mph, mostly massive pickup trucks.

But fortunately the back roads to work go more into the country side, and there isn’t as much traffic. Mostly a lot of loose aggressive farm dogs that have repeatedly come after me on my gravel bike, so my Juiced will leave them in the dust. Two major roads I need to get on, one on a dangerous s curve, but both only briefly for 1/4 mile or so. That’s where race mode will come in handy.

I’m an experienced rider, but sure wish I had a bigger community and culture of cyclists around! My mate says I need to get a 360 camera and mount it on my helmet to encourage good driver behavior.

 

[Browneye]

In what locale is this? Sounds like Oregon or Idaho. LOL

 

[planetbike]

Texas, y’all. I’d take Oregon in a heartbeat, minus the rain!

 

[Browneye]

We visited southern OR this year - Rogue River Valley. There are three types of vehicles on the road there - jeep, truck, or subaru. LOL
They're reasonably friendly though, and there is no population explosion like we have here in so-Cal. There are 22 million people in the LA basin, about 250K in the entire Rogue Valley of OR. We may well move there at retirement - sick and tired of gridlocked 5-8 lane freeways and waiting in line for everything.
Count your blessings. For us it's 300+ days of sunshine and balmy temps.

 

[planetbike]

I spent many years living in SoCal. Used to do regular climbs up the San Gabriel mountains. Great cycling culture and loved it, but yeah, no way we are moving back with housing prices what they are.

Spent some months in Oregon and really enjoyed it. Should’ve bought one of the houses I was looking at in Bend back in 2009.

 

[planetbike]

Got the bike today. Was very straightforward to put together. Some minor issues probably to be expected from a cheaper internet order bike. The battery wasn’t on the frame, but adjacent to it, so there was minor scratching through the black paint on the down tube unfortunately. Their instructional video says the battery would be installed on it during shipping, but it wasn‘t. A 10+ pound battery moving around is not a good idea, and definitely a simple thing to address. The rest of the thick box had a lot of very thick pieces of foam strategically placed, which was great. Still haven’t seen any other damage as of yet. Still, if FedEx clunked the box down hard, or it fell over, I wouldn’t be surprised for someone’s order to incur damage as the bike is so heavy.

The rear wheel is not true, in fact, quite embarrassingly lopsided. I haven’t looked closely to see if it’s not seated properly in the rear chain stays or something else, but that does concern me in terms of the build. The fenders are decent quality, but difficult to mount properly to prevent rubbing, especially with a wheel that’s not true.

I will probably replace the seat with a WTB. It’s ridiculously cushiony, which while some people prefer, it’s definitely not for me.

I rode on wet streets today to test, and afterwards, let it sit on the porch to dry out. Upon returning, the bike was dripping what looked like black powdercoat paint, staining the porch. I was pretty shocked, never seen anything like that before?!

The battery mounts so tightly to the frame that I couldn’t get it to lock in at first. I had to use all my weight to shove it in. Probably a good thing since people have had connection issues, but can’t imagine this happening with a major brand. Not would it be ideal for an older rider like, say, my parents.

Came with a gold painted bell that was perhaps the cheapest thing I’ve ever seen, like if the dollar store sold them.

The bike is built like a tank, and weighs like one. Thus the frame seems very sturdy. It’s a strange sensation riding something so heavy and with so much inertia. The tires are nice, but a bigger tire I think makes more sense for something this heavy, like a 2.2 or 2.4, as you have on the Giant FastRoad.

The motor whirs loud enough that everybody will hear an eBike going by—especially compared to the Specialized—but it’s not bothersome by any means. But this thing is indeed really powerful. Extremely powerful, but oddly still requires me to contribute enough to get my heart rate up. I was surprised, and pleased, by that fact. I’m new to eBikes, but the feel of the torque sensor wasn’t all so different from the Vado. At level 0, with no assist, it actually felt smooth enough that I could ride this way to increase my workout. The drivetrain was a bit noisy but worked efficiently as expected.

I ride drop handlebar bikes, so I don’t like the very wide flat bar at all. May look into a Jones bar or some other upgrade to help protect my wrists, which already hurt after a few miles. I installed Shimano PD-T8000 pedals, which are fantastic quality and quite lightweight for the size, and perfect for commuting with SPD shoes, but can also use regular shoes if needed on the other side. I highly recommend them.

I like to spin high cadence, but found I needed to go into a slower cadence and higher gear in order to get higher speeds—I’ll need to see if I can work around that while commuting to protect my knees and keep my spin rate optimal, while still averaging ~25mph.

Overall, the bike seems to be exactly what was described on this forum and in reviews, with the exception of maybe a few more cheap parts and build than I expected. Definitely not a mainstream brand quality build—but the battery power is extremely impressive. Kinda like the 90’s Camaro, or if Walmart bought a high tech transportation company and started swapping pieces with in-store off the shelf items. In terms of getting to work fast and efficiently, for the price, it may be almost unbeatable. If it proves to be reliable, then easily some of the best money I’ve spent. That’s really all I care about; so just hope it doesn’t leave me stranded on the side of the road at any point.

Very much first impressions with only a few miles, so this all means little, but just wanted to share. I’m sure my thoughts will change over time.

 

[Ebiker01]

It feels like that at first using a wide 760mm bar, but is totally normal. Is for balance, safety and leverage. Am an ex cyclist also. With time you get used with it and will learn to appreciate it.


As far as cadence, Was same , I used to do 100-110 rpm on my Storck , I had 48t on My Speed pedelec Nitro City went to 52t and just let the motor do the work.

Usually am at 70-80rpm. No need to put too much human effort with a 60lb ebike and pedal fast !! The 48t was easy Pedalling 80-90rpm amd was accelerating a little faster but it got tiring pedaling. 52tx15/14/13/12/11 is like a Fast Freight train.
With tires I use 50c or 47/48c -Specialized Electrak 2.0 are flat proof.50$/pair. Need wide in rear and minimum 42c in front.

 

[Rob2000]

May look into a Jones bar or some other upgrade to help protect my wrists,

You may want to check out the grips from Ergon, like the GP3, which allow for a hand position where your palms are facing each other, similar to gripping the hoods on a road bike, rather than palms down. The ability to change hand positions helps to minimize wrist and hand pain.

 

[planetbike]

You may want to check out the grips from Ergon, like the GP3, which allow for a hand position where your palms are facing each other, similar to gripping the hoods on a road bike, rather than palms down. The ability to change hand positions helps to minimize wrist and hand pain.

Thank you, these look really good. I’m also considering cutting my bars narrower.

 

[planetbike]

Well, I did a 26 mile ride this AM. I’ve never covered this much ground this fast, other than riding w a peloton. What a fascinating bike. No technical issues with the bike except for annoying fender rubbing occasionally from the rear wheel that isn’t true.

What I find interesting and different, compared to my regular gravel bike, is how hard it hits the bumps especially at high speeds—you really do need to scan the road carefully. I’m not surprised people have busted many spokes in the earlier models, particularly with how seriously heavy this bike is.

The dogs that used to chase me have no chance now, it’s pretty comical.

The biggest thing I am getting used to is my inability to spin high cadence and still go fast. I find that not just inefficient, but also it’s not good for the knees. You have to put it in high gear and crank on the pedals. I’ll have to try turning off the torque sensor, which you can do in the settings, and see what that’s like. Going fast up steeper grades isn’t as easy as I would have hoped, but on flat territory it’s easy to get to 30+ in race mode. I will definitely save a lot of time commuting, though I imagine in the hot summers I will still sweat quite a bit when going high speeds.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Don't you think planetbike you might shift down a little and spin faster to achieve the same speed?

 

[planetbike]

That’s what I thought any eBike would/could do, but it seemed as though two possible things were going on. First, spinning efficiently at high cadence means you’re putting out less wattage and giving less torque, which means it assists you less. Second, when spinning higher cadence you are using a lower gear, and it felt like the assist kicks in more only when you shift to a higher gear, even when I put it in the highest assist—race mode. The end result is very unnatural to an experienced cyclist, and thus my knees are feeling it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Usually, the torque sensor controls the acceleration and the cadence sensor is responsible for giving you more watts as you pedal faster. You always need to increase the assistance level if you need to ride very fast. However, that -- and your pedalling feeling -- depends on the implementation. Some motors/controllers just prefer high cadences and that's the case with, for example, Turbo Vado. Starting from my natural cadence of 77 rpm I managed to get onto some 88 and I certainly do not ride in the highest gear; yet to move very fast I have to switch up to the Turbo (maximum assistance) mode to get enough juice. The feeling is like the compressor in an engine kicked in after I passed some cadence

P.S. You can see that in the Vado's display: your power is a white short bar and the assistance is a long red bar: Once you have spun faster you can see human wattage almost at zero while the assist bar extends to the maximum.