Range phobia

[mikeschn]

So I experienced range phobia this morning on my bike ride. It was just a 20 mile ride, and my Stance E+2 was fully charged. Granted I used high assist, and my speeds were consistently just over 20mph...

Just past the halfway point my battery indicator dropped down to 40%. Was I even going to make it all the way back on battery power? Or was I going to be pedaling that heavy bike on analog power?

Don't know how I did it, I did slow down a bit, and used my legs more... I made it back home with one bar left!

Anyone else experience range phobia?

Mike...

 

[Gordon71]

So I experienced range phobia this morning on my bike ride. It was just a 20 mile ride, and my Stance E+2 was fully charged. Granted I used high assist, and my speeds were consistently just over 20mph...

Just past the halfway point my battery indicator dropped down to 40%. Was I even going to make it all the way back on battery power? Or was I going to be pedaling that heavy bike on analog power?

Don't know how I did it, I did slow down a bit, and used my legs more... I made it back home with one bar left!

Anyone else experience range phobia?

Mike...

Not so far. I usually also do 20 mile rides starting with a fully charged battery (2020 Rad Rover ST). I generally use pas2 for flats,3 for gentle hills and 4 or 5 on steeper grades. I almost never use 1st and 2nd gear. Mostly use 3rd and 4th riding between 10-15 mph. Sometimes 5-7 but it's still not generally warm enough for higher speed rides until sometime in July. When I get home I have 3 and sometimes 4 out of 5 bars left.

 

[AHicks]

Not after riding the bike for a bit, and realizing the power required to maintain speeds over about 15 mph will suck a battery charge at a pretty good clip....

 

[6zfshdb]

The best cure for range phobia is to carry a spare battery.

Some bike brands have smaller, lighter "range extender" batteries that are easy to carry. Unfortunately, no such option exists for my bike so I wired up a 4 AH cordless tool battery to use as a spare. It gives me 10 - 12 extra miles in a pinch.

 

[MartsEbike]

I tend to ride within my bikes limits so I don't fear it as such but it's certainly happened to me once or twice... one time around 25 miles from home and I was seeing 20% left on the battery. My backside wobbled a bit then... I made it home but it was a long old slog of a ride, mostly under my power

 

[fooferdoggie]

the best solution is experience with your bike learning what milage you get on different terrain and conditions. only once in 3 years did I run out without backup it was when I had to go to the doctors and Idid not know how much extra it would take plus my commute and i forgot to top off the battery at work.

 

[dodgeman]

I did when I first got my bike but not much any more. Keep in mind wind resistance is based roughly on the square of your speed. What that means is the wind resistance at 20 mph is 4 times that compared to 10 mph.

 

[Catalyzt]

Yeah, I have total range paranoia on my longer rides because they have so much vertical, which means that so much is dependent on intangibles-- how much energy I am adding to the equation, wind, heat, etc. My longest ride so far has been about 32 miles with just over 4,000 miles of vertical, and I had about eight miles in reserve.

There's about five or six more miles of flat terrain I want to explore at the top of the highest ridge-- and when I was up there before, I could manage the sections I did ride either without motor or in "Eco," with only the occasional blast of "Norm," meaning low battery usage. But I think for that ride, I'm going to have a bug-out plan-- if I run out of juice, I'll have my wife to a local breweryon the way back that I know I can make it to-- and have her bring my charger and an extension cord. My house is at the top of a long-ass hill. I'm not doing that unpowered, particularly after a ride like that!

Not after riding the bike for a bit, and realizing the power required to maintain speeds over about 15 mph will suck a battery charge at a pretty good clip....

Depends how hard you are working and what bike you are riding. For me, I recently discovered that I can manage a pretty high cruising speed on fitness rides with flat terrain. Yesterday, I got 9.1 miles out of the first of five "bars" on the battery indicator, while usually, I get around 7 to 8 miles per bar (with about 1,000 feet of vertical). This included a lap around the Griffith Park Reservoir-- a little over 3.5 miles-- which I took in Eco, working hard. The E5000 is so underpowered, and the bike is light enough that the drain on the battery is low and steady even close to the Class 1 assist limit. The indicator shows the system is only delivering 10-15% of the available power, but it's enough to help me get that 46-pound bike up to pretty high cruising speed.

Speed only dropped below 16 MPH to get through gates and for one rolling stop (to check in w/ the rangers, it was 5 minutes before the trail closed, they took pity on me, opened the gate, and let me take the last segment! Got to the last gate 30 seconds before closing.) Top speed was 19.2 MPH, did over 3.5 miles in about 13 minutes. Drenched in sweat when I got back, but it's a blast cornering at those speeds-- the curves are tight enough to be interesting, but not so tight that I'm pushing maximum lean (which would mean pedal strikes.)

There are definite drawbacks to having a lighter, underpowered bike, but there are some advantages, too.

 

[K PierreR]

I very definitely had range anxiety at first and did run out of battery a few times at the worst possible moment. I then went to two batteries and was fine until I solved the saddle issues and then I was back into range anxiety but not as often. I then went to four batteries and still occasionally have range anxiety when it's a long way between plug ins. I can at least fast charge at 15 amps.

 

[Sparky731]

Anyone else experience range phobia?

Absolutely! It is why I swapped my 500w battery for a 625w, and added a 500w Range Boost. Can never have enough electrons!

 

[fooferdoggie]

now both my main bikes have two batteries so pretty much no worries.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So I experienced range phobia this morning on my bike ride. It was just a 20 mile ride, and my Stance E+2 was fully charged. Granted I used high assist, and my speeds were consistently just over 20mph...

Just past the halfway point my battery indicator dropped down to 40%. Was I even going to make it all the way back on battery power? Or was I going to be pedaling that heavy bike on analog power?

Don't know how I did it, I did slow down a bit, and used my legs more... I made it back home with one bar left!

Anyone else experience range phobia?

Mike...

And just think your Stance is equipped with the 625 Wh battery, which is by no means small...

Your e-MTB has not been designed for speed or long rides: it is a bike made for riding in rough terrain (and such rides are slow); and for climbing technical trails: the downhill ride can take no battery if you don't pedal or have gone OFF. I had similar experiences as yours when I bought a Giant Trance E+2 Pro, and that was a 500 Wh battery e-MTB.

As long as it were <25 km/h rides in mixed terrain hilly area, I could make some 31 mi/2100 ft with no fear. When I went for my first ride in the mountains (almost roads only), I panicked: the battery was dropping down with 1% so fast I realized no long ride was possible: I rode for 17.7 mi/1900 ft and returned with 29% of battery! More importantly, the net ride time was 1 1/2 hours. (Them e-MTBers often give the range by the net time ridden not the distance).

Off-road rides in the plains were more forgiving. Like a 40 mi/630 ft ride in a national park with a mix of Level 1 (pavement) and 2 (off-road). However, a ride in the AUTO mode turned out to be a disaster as I was left with no assistance after riding just 33 miles (and returning for 6 miles on the pedal power).

The spare battery was a game changer: equipped with 625 Wh and 500 Wh batteries, I could ride longer rides without fear. (On the other hand, riding off-road with a heavy battery in a pannier is not the best of ideas...)
------------
The most important factors affecting the battery range are:

• Your own leg power (the more rider's input the less assistance can be used)
• Riding speed
• Elevation gain
• Wind
• Ambient temperature

The Trance E+ is owned by my brother now. He has modded the e-bike, removing unnecessary hardware such as a rack, adding MTB fenders, and riding on Schwalbe Johnny Watts tyres for pavement. And he is paranoiac about riding on a single battery. Now, see this:

• Jacek rode for a Imperial Century (100 miles) on a single 625 Wh battery. He rode against massive headwind in 50% ECO. His average speed was very low, and his leg input was very high. He pedalled for 10 hours net! (average speed of 10 mph)
• Two days later, he returned (by the same route) with a strong tailwind (16 mph). He could increase the assistance to 75% ECO for the last 43 miles. The ride took him 6 hours and 18 minutes net. Average speed of 16.0 mph. (He rode at the speed of the tailwind).

100 mile headwind ride, a single 625 Wh battery.

100 mile tailwind ride, a single 625 Wh battery.

There are only two ways to ensure longer range on an e-bike such as a Stance E+:

• Buy a spare battery and carry it (not forgetting about taking the battery key on the ride!), or
• Reduce the assistance and learn riding slower.

Necessary to mention e-bikes made specifically for riding the pavement fare better. My (degraded to 500 Wh) "big" Vado battery was good for 56 miles when I reduced the assistance level to one matching the performance of a healthy traditional cyclist. The average speed on such a ride was 14.4 mph.

 

[mikeschn]

So now I have to totally and completely rethink my ebike rides, and even my ebikes! You're right @Stefan Mikes the Stance E+ is a mountain bike. I bought it because it was full suspension, and I softened the ride so that it was riding like a Buick. More recently I threw the sensor on the chainwheel, so that I could go just a little bit faster! Now I have to think about giving up some of that comfort, and some of that speed, and working harder! Well, I suppose I can do that, after all, bike riding is supposed to be my exercise! ha! Honestly, I see myself riding the 2022 Vado more because of this...

now both my main bikes have two batteries so pretty much no worries.

I really didn't want to carry a second battery!

There are definite drawbacks to having a lighter, underpowered bike, but there are some advantages, too.

Agreed!

 

[indianajo]

I ran out of watthours for the first time last week. The clutch was failing in my Mac12t (1000 w) geared hub motor 7/11/21 besides the end of the wiring harness burning off in the rain. It took until 5/31/22 to get matching parts to work together finally. **** Chinese labels! and no names of any connector except wrong ones, like Molex. The first bafang converter harness had the wrong sex on the bafang end! And it was too short to put the controller under the seat out of the rain.
The Mac12t motor would use about 2/3 of an 840 wh battery to climb 80 hills of the safe path to my summer camp. I would arrive at about 45 v starting at 52. My new geared hub motor is a 500 watt 36v bafang. My new controller is a 500 W (10 A) instead of the 1300 W (26 A) ebikeling controller that errored out after 4 years. Less power and less controller amps meant my watthour usage went from 67% to 100%. Battery was at 40.1 v when arrived at destination and incapable of climbing the last low grade hills. Also the new package will not climb some of the steeper hills (12%?) without me shifting into low range 2nd sprocket and pedaling vigorously. I had to stop and pant halfway up three hills. The mac12t could power me up those hills without help with 80 lb of supplies at 6 mph or higher. Thanks industry trade group for convincing 40 state legislatures that 1000 w ebikes are really motorcycles.
I came back by the flatter but more dangerous St Rte 3. The route where the berm outside the white line is 0" wide in several places. Where the gravel trucks travel 70 mph and don't give an inch, riding right on the line. Some of the elderly in cars & PUs ride the line and cross it frequently. I have to ride backwards below 10 mph and keep an eye out to dive into the grass if an oncoming vehicle threatens to hit me on 7 miles of St Rte 3. Did so 4 times Sun noon when there were no gravel trucks.

 

[mikeschn]

I just took the Vado 4.0 on the same ride this morning, at the same approx. speeds... I made it back home with about 60% battery left.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Vado 4.0

710 Wh battery and probably less assistance. Tyres more suitable for pavement...

 

[Catalyzt]

So now I have to totally and completely rethink my ebike rides, and even my ebikes! You're right @Stefan Mikes the Stance E+ is a mountain bike. I bought it because it was full suspension, and I softened the ride so that it was riding like a Buick. More recently I threw the sensor on the chainwheel, so that I could go just a little bit faster! Now I have to think about giving up some of that comfort, and some of that speed, and working harder! Well, I suppose I can do that, after all, bike riding is supposed to be my exercise! ha! Honestly, I see myself riding the 2022 Vado more because of this...

I really didn't want to carry a second battery!


Agreed!

These are hard decisions, I know. There really is no such thing as an "all-rounder," I think of these decisions as a series of compromises. For me? I only ride on dirt about 20% of the time. But that is some of my most enjoyable riding, it's what opened up a whole new world to me. And 60% of my riding is on badly broken asphalt, and my shoulders are really not in great shape. I went from 2.3 inch tires to 2.2, and I realized, "Yeah, I can feel the loss in traction, but it's manageable," (and the best tradeoff, gives me better handling, higher speed, and increased range) and at that point, I realized I had to stick with the eMTB. I have a second ebike with only stem and seat suspension, and it just doesn't quite cut it for 80% of my riding.

A lot of it is about anticipating the kind of riding you will be doing in six months, which is very hard to know! This sport takes us in new directions that are hard to predict. I didn't plan on trail riding in 3,000 foot hills that are over 10 miles from my house when I got my first eBike, I thought I would be content to putter around in Griffith Park.

 

[AHicks]

These are hard decisions, I know. There really is no such thing as an "all-rounder," I think of these decisions as a series of compromises. For me? I only ride on dirt about 20% of the time. But that is some of my most enjoyable riding, it's what opened up a whole new world to me. And 60% of my riding is on badly broken asphalt, and my shoulders are really not in great shape. I went from 2.3 inch tires to 2.2, and I realized, "Yeah, I can feel the loss in traction, but it's manageable," (and the best tradeoff, gives me better handling, higher speed, and increased range) and at that point, I realized I had to stick with the eMTB. I have a second ebike with only stem and seat suspension, and it just doesn't quite cut it for 80% of my riding.

A lot of it is about anticipating the kind of riding you will be doing in six months, which is very hard to know! This sport takes us in new directions that are hard to predict. I didn't plan on trail riding in 3,000 foot hills that are over 10 miles from my house when I got my first eBike, I thought I would be content to putter around in Griffith Park.

This is one of the reasons I encourage folks to get an inexpensive "starter" e-bike. I think there are a LOT of people who have no idea of exactly how their e-bike will be ridden most often.

 

[rtp]

The Trance E+ is owned by my brother now. He has modded the e-bike, removing unnecessary hardware such as a rack, adding MTB fenders, and riding on Schwalbe Johnny Watts tyres for pavement. And he is paranoiac about riding on a single battery. Now, see this:

• Jacek rode for a Imperial Century (100 miles) on a single 625 Wh battery. He rode against massive headwind in 50% ECO. His average speed was very low, and his leg input was very high. He pedalled for 10 hours net! (average speed of 10 mph)
• Two days later, he returned (by the same route) with a strong tailwind (16 mph). He could increase the assistance to 75% ECO for the last 43 miles. The ride took him 6 hours and 18 minutes net. Average speed of 16.0 mph. (He rode at the speed of the tailwind).

100 mile headwind ride, a single 625 Wh battery.

View attachment 125933
100 mile tailwind ride, a single 625 Wh battery.

What was the battery remaining at the end of the tailwind ride?

 

[rtp]

Anyone else experience range phobia?

Kind of/still - yes, but it varies to 'usually not' nowadays.
@AHicks mentioned a 'starter bike' and I don't disagree, as there's a few things to get used to, not least of which is once the fun of riding around by throttle or max power wears off, you start to both sort out where your 'typical' rides will be, how far, and what power level(s) you'll wind up with as your norm...
I had my BBHSD cut out on me in a < 15 mile ride with reasonable battery...but was wholly just messing around with a fair amount of higher power and some throttle use. I later routinely did 15-20 mile trail rides w/out battery concerns (pretty much never used throttle, lower power levels, etc.).

On my Ludi X2, my normal assist level is 2 of 9, sometimes 1, occasionally 3 if I'm feeling wiped/lazy. If I'm starting out on >= 75% battery charge, I've just got no real concerns for a typical 15-20 mile ride at all. I do still get a bit nervous as I'm still not fully confident on range versus changing terrain and conditions, or at least not as confident as I'd like to be and I still haven't run the bike to power cut-off as of yet. I probably should do that to see where 'no more power' really is. I'd probably start to get nervous considering a 40 mile technical trail ride.

Short version - it gets better with experience, but there are a fair # of variables as it's far from just mileage/kms - how much you contribute, assist level, terrain, wind, climbing all have a fair amount of impact...