R&M SuperDelite vs Homage, Fox suspension upgrade ?

[HariSeldon]

As a brief intro, myself (61) and my wife (54) are looking to get back into cycling with an Electric Bike, we live in Dorset, UK and are fortunate that we will be shortly living within 9 miles of all our regular travel destinations and the New Forest, an area full of off road trails.

Dissatisfaction with the levels of traffic, a need for more fitness, better bike infrastructure and some green tendencies, suggest that cycling is the way to go and an Electric Bike will make this all more practicable to go further, carry shopping and remove some of the disincentives…plus it’s fun!



A day’s hire of an ebike in the New Forest, a Cube step thru hybrid with a mid motor Bosch and 1.6” Schwalbe Range Cruiser tyres, was very successful, coping with roads and seeming fine on the gravel and forest trails, we were convinced! Given a fair few hills and very strong winds on the day, the bike coped well, ( riding at 15mph into a strong headwind, I turned the motor off and saw my speed drop to about 8mph despite peddling quite hard, I was impressed by the motor).



Being in the UK we are looking at the 25kmh restricted version of motors ( HS models are possible but number plates, motorcycle helmets, insurance, not being able to use cycle paths and trails make this a self defeating option) I did find with the CUBE hire bike I was getting to about 30mph ( 48 kmh) downhill with ease and averaging 15 to 20 mph ( 25 to 32 km/h) on the flat road sections.



The temptation is to buy a couple of bikes at this sort of price point £2,000 to £3,000) , I know that inevitably that we would end up replacing them in a couple of years, as I am fairly certain with being retired we have the time to make full use of bikes for longer day trips and are thinking about bike holidays in the Uk and Europe already. It makes more sense to skip the entry bike and Buy Right, Buy Once. Research and a visit to a couple of bike shops and test rides is leading me to Riese and Muller, very impressed with quality and the full suspension setup . ( The cost is high but we will significantly extend the life of our 5 year old, 40,000 mile Hybrid Toyota before replacement is considered)



I believe twin batteries, internal hub and belt drive plus full suspension are required features, and I am leaning to the Homage GX Rohloff E14 or the Superdelite GX Rohloff E14, the step thru frame of the Homage is tempting… but with an extra battery the step thru space is limited …. The bike rides great ( I tested the Vario), I am inclined towards the Superdelite 2020, the appearance, integrated batteries, the new 2020 CX motor, (a LBS was upbeat about the new motor, having seen a fair few bearing failures, but praising the excellent Bosch service).



The Homage was appealing too, less expensive, easier access, my wife at 5’5” (165cm) is just about ok with the 49cm frame but the 2020 motor improvements lead me to favour the Superdelite, where the smaller 47cm frame, with dropper seat post, might be a better fit for my wife ( probably for myself too, whilst I am 5’10” my inside leg measurement is very close to my wife at around 31”)



I am inclined towards the GX option, Bar ends, wider pedals and with the Dropper post with the Superdelite make sense. Regarding the tyres, we will be living next to an area of heath with potentially muddy trails and the Rock Razor tyres might be a plus here, with not too much downside on the road.



Thoughts and opinions are very welcome, the final question is with the Superdelite is whether to go with the Fox Suspension upgrade, by this point having potentially spent so much, I am not too worried about the extra cost, if it is of benefit. I suspect that we will ride a reasonable amount off road but are not going to be pushing the boundaries too much !



In summary, Superdite, with or without Fox suspension upgrade ? Are my concerns about the older CX model bearing issues overblown and the improvements of the 2020 model overweighted ?

 

[Alaskan]

Lots of questions here.

I'm 69 and ride 2 R&M bikes, a 2019 Dual Battery Homage Rohloff High Speed with Fox suspension upgrade and a 2018 Delight Mountain with the cargo rack, Shimano Diore XT 11 speed, a Bosch CX and the Fox suspension upgrade. My wife rides a 2018 Homage Rohloff HS. All three bikes have dual batteries. Nancy does one or two rides a week with me. I ride five or six days per week, weather permitting, putting 1000-2000 km per month on my bikes, with over 20,000 km ridden in the last 20 months. I ride the Delight when I want a faster, sportier ride mostly group rides with athletic road bikers where I do lots of motor pacing at 40 km or faster (I put a Bikepspeed RS speed delimiting dongle on this bike with a three tooth larger chain ring and a 11-46 tooth cassette) I ride the Homage for around town commuting, running errands and overnight tours. As I really don't ride the Delight Mountain on muddy trails, I changed out the tires to more road worthy Super Moto X Schwalbe added fenders.

The Fox upgrades are very much worth it. The Suntour/X-Fusion are good not great while the Fox is much easier to tune for an amazingly smooth ride, plus the Fox has a lockout on the rear shock. IN 2019 the Homage did not have a Fox upgrade available. As Nancy rides so much less than I do and weighs much less as well, I swapped out the suspension parts so that the 2019 Homage now has the Fox bits from the 2018 and vice versa.

Living just 50 miles south of Vancouver, this is a rainy part of the world, much like the Great Britain, I imagine. I mostly avoid riding in the rain though. I also ride mostly on roads or developed gravel trails. I have had not problems with bearings I think that most of the bearing problems experienced in the UK and elsewhere occur on hard ridden mountain bikes with lots of mud and water exposure.

I definitely recommend using a dropper post on the Delight. The step through with the extra battery does have less space for passing the right foot through but with practice it still works just fine.

While the belt drive is definitely to be preferred, the chain driven 2018 homage works just fine and lasts a long time. It uses a 8 speed chain but as there is not chain changes with shifting so the chain line remains constant, the chain lasts quite a long time compared to a derailleur equipped bike,

Every day I ride a R&M bike I am thankful I spent the extra $$ up front for these top shelf bikes. They really are several cuts above the pack.

 

[HariSeldon]

Thank you Alaskan for such an informative and detailed reply, very useful, particularly as you have examples of the bikes I am most interested in and clearly use them for significant mileages.

It only needed a little push to opt for the Fox upgrade..... Our dealer is expecting in the 2020 Superdelite bikes any day and we will be off for a test ride asap !

The HS option sounds good but is not really practicable here legally and the consequences of being detected with a dongle here could be unpleasant ( albeit unlikely) and the nature of roads locally that where you could use that speed, are not pleasant with the volume of traffic and the 25kmh limit will be ok , the US limit of 32kmh would have been ideal.

The Vancouver weather is pretty similar in many respects as we have good friends who lived for many years in Vancouver and its on our travel list !

 

[HariSeldon]

An update, we had a chance to test an Homage , a 2020 Delite mountain, both with conventional gearing and a 2020 Delite with Rohloff, thanks to Dan from Edemo, a great R&M dealer from Nailsworth Gloucestershire uk, who brought the bikes down to the New Forest, where we had an ample opportunity to ride them on a great mix of terrain. The Delite Mountain was a lot of fun and the Rohloff was very good, the gearshift was very smooth and the motor does pause, just enough, that it seemed more than happy for a change to occur when you are pedalling, the integration with the motor was very good.

The Fox suspension on the Delite Mountain was really excellent and we finally settled on two Superdelites, Kiox, front carrier, Rohloff, GX option with the Fox upgrade, we went for the 47cm frame as opposed to the 51cm, we happily rode this size on the test ride but I can see the smaller frame being a better fit. We'll be counting the days until we get the bikes now !

The comments from Alaskan were very helpful.)(

 

[Ddewsbury]

Got my new bike yesterday, this is it. Video in comments showing it in deep sand and gravel. The folks at San Diego fly rides are simply the best! They bent over backwards to make me a happy customer. Got the bike mounted in my sleeper cab, and I am hitting the road.

 

[jovdmo]

I am undecided on what framesize to order for the Riese and Müller delite 2020 GX option (140mm travel).
I did a testride with a delite GX framesize 51 from the local shop (the shop only has this size to try) and while riding the size felt ok. But when stopped and the seat in its lowest position with the dropperpost down, I can not comfortably reach the ground, only with my toes.
I am 178cm high so should fit the framesize 51 according to the website. My weight is 69kg so maybe the suspension doesn't compres that far as with someone a bit heavier.
The shop owner suggested ordering a frame size 47 to be comfortably with my feet on the ground when stopped (dropperpost down) and so take full advantage of the dropperpost travel.
My concern with this is that the reach would be smaller on the size 47. Also on the website the person length for size 47 is between 160 - 175cm, so too small for my height 178cm?)
Will the size 47 be adaptable to my height and upper body? Or would it be better to still go with the 51?
Maybe some of you could give me some guidance on why you chose the framesize 47 instead of 51 and what your body length is?

 

[Alaskan]

I ride a 2018 Delight Mountain with the Fox suspension upgrade which came in slightly different frame sizes than the new model Delight - 19.5 in (49.53 cm)21.5 in (54.61 cm)22 in (55.88 cm).

I am 185cm tall and weigh 92kg I am very comfortable on the 54.61cm (medium) frame. My feet are both flat on the ground when stopped with the dropper post all the way down. I hope this helps.

 

[HariSeldon]

I have just ordered two Superdelites with fox after testing a Delite and Delite mountain both at 51cm. I am 178cn and my wife 165cm , 5’9 ½ and 5’4” and whilst we both managed the 51cm we felt the smaller frame would be a more comfortable ride ( my wife was using a shortened seatpost) we both have an inside keg around 75cm (30”) our helpful dealer felt this would be best the best fit for us, the difference in reach is quite small. His recommendation was that the inside leg measurements were more important than ones actual height.

For my wife the smaller frame is a no brainer and for myself with an inside leg measurement the same as my wife, then the smaller frame makes sense. It’s easy to overthink it and the height ranges quoted are just a guide after all.

In the end aren’t we really looking at where the saddle is in relation to the pedals and where are hands are on the handlebars, being able to reach the ground when stationary is really helpful and my very short time with the dropper seatpost was rewarding !

(We have gone for the Kiox option and the handlebar can be adjusted slightly as well. )

Looking forward to their arrival now !

 

[marcparnes]

I'm assuming you have a typo in the first line of your last post and you actually ordered a 47 cm. I have a 2020 Superdelite GT in size 51 cm. I measure 5' 9 1/2" with a 30" inseam, the same as you. The difference in stand over between the 47 cm and 51 cm was only 1/4" which is almost nothing and with the 51 cm I'm not touching. There is a major difference in the length of the top tube resulting in a difference of 1.2" in reach which is substantial and based on what my 51 cm feels like, might ultimately have been too cramped for me.

There was an issue though with seat height and reach to the pedals. In order to get the seat so my heel would reach the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, which seems to be the standard for fit, I had to cut off about 1" from the bottom of the seat post which took all of 5 minutes. Having done that I can now reach the pedals properly with a slight bend at the knee at the bottom of the stroke. There is still the issue of reaching the ground which I can't do from the seat. My old bike was the same so I'm in the habit of coming off the seat at stops anyway. A dropper is an option but I really don't NEED it.

So here's the point: between a 47 cm and a 51 cm, as long as you have the seat the proper distance from the pedals, the reach to the ground between the two sizes is the same. The bottom bracket height and the length of the cranks is the same so its all about the height of the seat which is easily adapted. The bigger issue as I see it is the reach to the bars. You might not want to discount that in your mind. As an example, when I'm standing over the bike the water bottles are only about 4" from my stomach and I'm not fat. Get on a 47 cm and those bottles are now 1.2" closer. If your wife is OK with the reach of the 51 cm I would strongly suggest you reconsider a 51 cm or at least try a 47 cm as it just might turn out that the 47 cm will be too cramped for you. Probably R&M put some thought into their recommendations. As it is now, the 51 cm is the most comfortable bicycle I've ever sat on. I'm riding way further than I ever did before and not just because I have a motor to help (even though that doesn't hurt). I get off of the bike at the end of a 50 mile ride and nothing hurts what so ever. Sore back, stiff neck, aching butt: all gone. And that's a very good thing at 72 yrs Just my opinion.

Marc

 

[steve mercier]

Yes I too would be concerned that size is too high for your wife. Are you certain that at 5'5"' she would not prefer the step- thru?

 

[steve mercier]

I am undecided on what framesize to order for the Riese and Müller delite 2020 GX option (140mm travel).
I did a testride with a delite GX framesize 51 from the local shop (the shop only has this size to try) and while riding the size felt ok. But when stopped and the seat in its lowest position with the dropperpost down, I can not comfortably reach the ground, only with my toes.
I am 178cm high so should fit the framesize 51 according to the website. My weight is 69kg so maybe the suspension doesn't compres that far as with someone a bit heavier.
The shop owner suggested ordering a frame size 47 to be comfortably with my feet on the ground when stopped (dropperpost down) and so take full advantage of the dropperpost travel.
My concern with this is that the reach would be smaller on the size 47. Also on the website the person length for size 47 is between 160 - 175cm, so too small for my height 178cm?)
Will the size 47 be adaptable to my height and upper body? Or would it be better to still go with the 51?
Maybe some of you could give me some guidance on why you chose the framesize 47 instead of 51 and what your body length is?

I am 5'8" also and I know 51cm is too big for me. I have a 49 cm Charger and I just barely clear it ( read that as it is too big for me) so I say get the 47cm like the shop says.

 

[marcparnes]

I am 5'8" also and I know 51cm is too big for me. I have a 49 cm Charger and I just barely clear it ( read that as it is too big for me) so I say get the 47cm like the shop says.

When you say clear it do you mean stand over height?

Marc

 

[steve mercier]

When you say clear it do you mean stand over height?

Marc

Yes and I have a 30 cm inseam

 

[Alaskan]

Yes and I have a 30 cm inseam

30cm inseam? We have ridden together and I am certain your legs are longer than 12 inches. Did you mean to say a 30" inseam?

 

[steve mercier]

30cm inseam? We have ridden together and I am certain your legs are longer than 12 inches. Did you mean to say a 30" inseam?

haha ... no I am shinking ! Yes of course my mistake (-:

 

[dblhelix]

haha ... no I am shinking ! Yes of course my mistake (-:

For a moment I thought you might be a sweet elf.

 

[marcparnes]

Yes and I have a 30 cm inseam

Yes, there is a difference in standover between your bike and mine. Yours is 83.5 cm and mine is 82 cm so yours is 15 mm taller or more than 1/2". I can see where that might be a problem. I also have a 30" inseam and I don't touch. I don't have a lot of margin but enough Your arms are probably shorter as well since we have at least 1 1/2" difference in height.

Marc

 

[steve mercier]

Yes, there is a difference in standover between your bike and mine. Yours is 83.5 cm and mine is 82 cm so yours is 15 mm taller or more than 1/2". I can see where that might be a problem. I also have a 30" inseam and I don't touch. I don't have a lot of margin but enough Your arms are probably shorter as well since we have at least 1 1/2" difference in height.

Marc

Yes and my schmucks probably hang lower (-: But I wished I could have a slightly smaller frame and I would not like to see you end up the same ( with a frame too big that is , not the low hanging fruit).

 

[HariSeldon]

I'm assuming you have a typo in the first line of your last post and you actually ordered a 47 cm. I have a 2020 Superdelite GT in size 51 cm. I measure 5' 9 1/2" with a 30" inseam, the same as you. The difference in stand over between the 47 cm and 51 cm was only 1/4" which is almost nothing and with the 51 cm I'm not touching. There is a major difference in the length of the top tube resulting in a difference of 1.2" in reach which is substantial and based on what my 51 cm feels like, might ultimately have been too cramped for me.

There was an issue though with seat height and reach to the pedals. In order to get the seat so my heel would reach the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, which seems to be the standard for fit, I had to cut off about 1" from the bottom of the seat post which took all of 5 minutes. Having done that I can now reach the pedals properly with a slight bend at the knee at the bottom of the stroke. There is still the issue of reaching the ground which I can't do from the seat. My old bike was the same so I'm in the habit of coming off the seat at stops anyway. A dropper is an option but I really don't NEED it.

So here's the point: between a 47 cm and a 51 cm, as long as you have the seat the proper distance from the pedals, the reach to the ground between the two sizes is the same. The bottom bracket height and the length of the cranks is the same so its all about the height of the seat which is easily adapted. The bigger issue as I see it is the reach to the bars. You might not want to discount that in your mind. As an example, when I'm standing over the bike the water bottles are only about 4" from my stomach and I'm not fat. Get on a 47 cm and those bottles are now 1.2" closer. If your wife is OK with the reach of the 51 cm I would strongly suggest you reconsider a 51 cm or at least try a 47 cm as it just might turn out that the 47 cm will be too cramped for you. Probably R&M put some thought into their recommendations. As it is now, the 51 cm is the most comfortable bicycle I've ever sat on. I'm riding way further than I ever did before and not just because I have a motor to help (even though that doesn't hurt). I get off of the bike at the end of a 50 mile ride and nothing hurts what so ever. Sore back, stiff neck, aching butt: all gone. And that's a very good thing at 72 yrs Just my opinion.

Marc

Well helpful and interesting post Marc, to clarify we have ordered 47cm frames on a GX but test rides were on 51cm GT and we managed just fine.

The GX is slightly higher as a result of the shocks having more travel, raising the crank height. We both managed the 51cm Delite Mountain and found it fine, regarding comfort provided the seat was the correct height.

I take the point that the major difference between the frames is the length of the top tube, it looks like the reduction in length from the top tube, is from the rear, this brings the rear post further forward, as you say bringing the water bottle mounts closer when standing over the bike but having very little effect on the actual stand over height.

I will give this some more thought and will have a word with our dealer shortly and get his take on the matter , it’s not too late to modify the order this early in the process.

Thanks to all for comments, it’s very helpful. Our first thought was the Homage and it’s clearly a great option, but on reflection I like the look of the integration of both batteries, the latest 2020 motor is a draw and overall feel the Superdelite is the more attractive choice for us.

 

[HariSeldon]

Well helpful and interesting post Marc, to clarify we have ordered 47cm frames on a GX but test rides were on 51cm GT and we managed just fine.

The GX is slightly higher as a result of the shocks having more travel, raising the crank height. We both managed the 51cm Delite Mountain and found it fine, regarding comfort provided the seat was the correct height.

I take the point that the major difference between the frames is the length of the top tube, it looks like the reduction in length from the top tube, is from the rear, this brings the rear post further forward, as you say bringing the water bottle mounts closer when standing over the bike but having very little effect on the actual stand over height.

I will give this some more thought and will have a word with our dealer shortly and get his take on the matter , it’s not too late to modify the order this early in the process.

Thanks to all for comments, it’s very helpful. Our first thought was the Homage and it’s clearly a great option, but on reflection I like the look of the integration of both batteries, the latest 2020 motor is a draw and overall feel the Superdelite is the more attractive choice for us.

A further point was, for us having the GX option, lifts the crank height about 2cm, the addition of the dropper post also takes space and whilst with a slightly shortened seatpost on a saddle, we tested with a 51cm frame on a Delite GT we were ok, it was felt the GX option left less room and this the 47cm frame was preferable.

The difference in reach and the water bottles being a little closer are very valid points I will speak with our dealer about this.