Hey guys! I've read every comment here and really appreciate the time and energy you've spent sharing. That's what makes this a great space and why I enjoy checking in so much... Over the past several days I've spoken with
@Chris Nolte from Long Island Electric Bikes,
@Chandlee EBS from Certified Electric Bike Specialists,
@Larry Pizzi from Currie Technologies and Len, Mark and Henry from
@Crazy Lenny Ebikes. I really value open communication and transparency so here's what I heard...
Nobody wants to see a race to the bottom regarding price because if shops and manufacturers cannot make a profit they will leave the space and that means that even great ebikes will be left without support and users will have nowhere to take test rides. On the flip side, nobody wants to screw customers and almost every local electric bike shop I've spoken with has some sort of promotional tool or incentive to land sales. The big challenge to an online space like this forum is that every sale gets compounded and in some cases MAP (minimum advertised price) gets violated publicly which can get a shop in trouble and set a dangerous precedent.
@Gus mentioned that his CD store had to "adapt" to Best Buy and Walmart (not sure it if survived?) and now we see Amazon challenging Best Buy and others... We see Tesla challenging the way cars are sold and people completely abandoning cars for electric bicycles! Oh what a world
I've worked for several "disruptive" companies myself including Google and what I've noticed is that a balance of rule following combined with efficient distribution, communication, support, customization etc. can be a win for everyone. Maybe Apple has its own stores but they also have kiosks in Best Buy because people want to touch and try their devices. Maybe people are comfortable buying shoes from Zappos but they still comply with MAP and shoes don't require the kind of ongoing maintenance that an electric bike does. I think this is why Tesla has storefronts and why having physical dealers in the bicycle space (electric or otherwise) is so important, even more important than a few more ultra-low sales. Let the people who want to spend less on electric bikes buy a perfectly good
eZip Trailz for $600 or convert a garage sale bike for $400 with a
Hill Topper. I think it's bullshit when someone says "people can't afford ebikes" they just want a fancier bike without paying for it. Anyway, here's an
interesting read from a site that sometimes sells below MAP but does it in a way that doesn't break the rules or spam users. Furthermore, if someone wants to violate MAP on their own site that's fine with me but it may ruin their manufacturer relationship. I am not okay with it happening here "just because this is a forum" and more open source. I offer a lot of freedom here but that comes with a responsibility to behave. I take pride in the quality of this space and even though I do not buy from manufactures, I realize that without them I would lose sponsorships (which let me do reviews and host this forum) and we would all lose choice and innovation which takes investment cultivated through profit. Profit is not evil but lying to old ladies about car troubles so they will pay more is... unless you offer to sell them an ebike, or maybe an e-trike?
Maybe it makes sense for a last season demo model to sell for less and perhaps it's okay to offer a slight discount to members of AAA or to Veterans or Seniors etc. and perhaps sweetening the deal with a free bag, ongoing tuneups or some lights is okay but it should be done in a professional and socially acceptable way. In our context that means keeping ads to a specific area of this forum and using social common sense to avoid "overdoing it" with loud fonts, excessive posting etc. In fact, I think most of it should be private. Stuff that is public should be about how cool the new bikes are, how they just got some in and how they are having a demo event that people can actually attend like the
Beaverdam Blitz that Chandlee put on.
My hope is that someday this Deals section, or perhaps an updated name changed "For Sale" section, will serve as a place for ebike owners to sell their old gear and part-out broken bikes so that we can keep more ebikes going. Shipping a motor, display panel or controller across the country makes a lot of sense and could really help someone but most working used ebikes will probably still sell on Craigslist because they're so large and expensive to ship. In today's market there are shops that can sell online successfully because independent electric bike dealers are few and far between in rural areas and there are some brands like
Grace that have not saturated many dealers. If someone like Chris, Chandlee or Len spend their time on this forum helping people to learn about ebikes and in the process make a few sales (and communicate their prices appropriately and privately) then we can avoid the MAP issue and everyone can win. More bikes sold, less spam, no race to the bottom.
I don't want this space to turn into a junk show, I also want to avoid ruffling feathers or harming potential full price deals from going through for people who are willing to pay the extra bucks. That money is not wasted at all in my view if it keeps a shop afloat, pays the salaries of bike mechanics, covers insurance and builds equity for next gen models. The very first electric bike I purchased was at full MSRP and I did that to support my local shop
Rocket Electrics in Austin Texas as I appreciated the time and service they were providing. I sacrificed some savings to build a relationship and an industry I believe in and I do not regret that at all. This is a business and profit stimulates growth. So to be clear, I brought this entire topic up not because manufacturers or dealers prompted it but because I could sense some uneasiness. Again, I'm currently making no money from this forum and my hope is that it gives actual owners a safe space to voice their true experiences with ebikes and to share their acquired expertise. As you know, my reviews are limited, I don't own the bikes I film... you guys do, and that brings so much value to other people. Pay it fucking forward bro! ...and sis (that's the unofficial slogan of the EBR Forum).
So here's my proposal. What if I rename this section "For Sale" (which tones down the competitive "Deals" language) and post a basic "guidelines" thread at the top that requests that current model year bikes not be posted below MAP and that the space is meant primarily for end users to sell used components etc. Dealers can still interact directly with users and make whatever deals they feel comfortable with privately but they may not spam users and if I receive multiple complaints, a dealer will be suspended from posting here or visiting the forums all together if necessary. I could actually use your help drafting the "rules" section since this is your space... In addition to the rules, you can flag people as spam and I will follow up and you can certainly use the "ignore" feature as
@86 and still kicking pointed out but ideally people won't be so tacky that it's required.
Here's an example of what I think a good shop interaction looks like on EBR and it didn't even happen in the Deals section! Specific dollar figures were not mentioned and there wasn't even a "we offer prices even lower than Walmart!!1" tagline attached... This was helpful, genuine and likely attracted business inquiries then and now.
