Pre-pandemic R&M bikes

[RMK!]

I test rode a RIESE & MULLER DELITE GX with ROHLOF E14 (2019 pre pandemic floor model) yesterday and absolutely loved the very quiet Bosch Performance motor, the smooth shifting Rohloff E14 IGH (chain version) and the front and rear FOX suspension. My finger has been hovering over the place order button all day. The price difference between my current 1000W fat tire adventure ebike and the R&M is ridiculous even with a floor model discount.

My dilemma is, there seems to be a good amount of dissatisfaction from current R&M owners for many of the current R&M models. It seems to be more related to QA problems at R&M or customer service issues related to dealer support problems in coordinating the actual support responsibility between R&M and their Bosch and Rohloff partners. This is a big concern for me and is the main reason I haven't purchased the Delite GX. There are scant reviews for the 2018-2019 Delite's bikes but the few I have found are very positive. My test ride gave the impression of a great looking and superb riding ebike that is an expertly built and quality engineered product.

Getting to the point, I'm wondering if the current spat of issues with R&M and their supplier partners isn't directly related to the pandemic? All manufacturers have had issues with disrupted supply chains and employee attendance which would lead to the types of problems I see described regarding the 2020 and 2021 models. Perhaps the pre-pandemic models were more in line with the R&M badge excellent reputation for quality and reliability.

Sorry for the rambling musings. I'm just trying to understand the reasons for the recent decline in customer satisfaction among the R&M customers on this forum. I (for many reasons) don't do Facebook anymore so I can't look there for a better understanding of this perceived change in customer attitude so I'm left with coming up with my own theory. Perhaps a blame it on the pandemic is my way of rationalizing an expensive ebike expenditure. Feel free to comment and I'd appreciate any R&M owner feedback.

 

[SD2021]

RMK!
Completely agree on R&M price and FB.
Picked up my SD GX a month ago and at first was questioning the decision. After a week of use and personalizing it, moving the handle bar controls, setting up the suspension and a few other items, that doubt is gone. Obviously if I start having error codes or other issues mentioned without dealer or manufacturer support that will change but so far so good.
Good luck, Tom

 

[TimJohn]

I think you have to take a lot of the complaints on the internet with a little bit of skepticism. The amount of satisfied and trouble free customers don't make here. So unless you have come verifiable data then I would just take the leap and just enjoy your ride. The pandemic has delayed production as I can say with my 7 month wait for my 2021 Mulitcharger. So count me as one of the non complaining customers that loves his ride.

 

[RMK!]

RMK!
Completely agree on R&M price and FB.
Picked up my SD GX a month ago and at first was questioning the decision. After a week of use and personalizing it, moving the handle bar controls, setting up the suspension and a few other items, that doubt is gone. Obviously if I start having error codes or other issues mentioned without dealer or manufacturer support that will change but so far so good.
Good luck, Tom

Great looking bike and I love the integrated batteries. The 2019 dual batteries looked scabbed on but not as bad as other dual battery systems I've seen. I have the Ergon Grips you are using and being tall (6'5") they will be needed on even the 56cm large framed GX. I'm not getting the fenders but the rear rack is included. Also getting a dropper post but before the test ride and due to the dropper cable length they couldn't adjust it to my needed seat height. I'm hoping I can get another 3-4" of seat height without having to replace the dropper cable.

 

[RMK!]

I think you have to take a lot of the complaints on the internet with a little bit of skepticism. The amount of satisfied and trouble free customers don't make here. So unless you have come verifiable data then I would just take the leap and just enjoy your ride. The pandemic has delayed production as I can say with my 7 month wait for my 2021 Mulitcharger. So count me as one of the non complaining customers that loves his ride.

I get that but many of the R&M customer complaints I have read are not from the more typical take no responsibility whiners that can dominate these boards. They seem like reasonable people who are getting a product with issues and they are pretty much being left to fend for themselves in driving a solution to the issues.

R&M seems like an engineering driven company e.g. the customer is always wrong. Actually, I prefer this to marketing driven companies that provide support that lacks depth. A balanced approach is best but those companies are in my experience, rare.

 

[TimJohn]

I agree. There are issues with their product follow up I have seen as well such as Roloff drive train leaks. I don't think R&M are represented well here in North America and so getting repairs and resolution is sadly going to continue. There are very well informed riders that participate on this medium so be rest assured, you can get some answers here. I hope this does not deter you too much.

 

[Alanzo]

I've got a pre pandemic Delite purchased 2 years ago. Quite an amazing bike. I am pedaling at a higher cadence with this bike than any non e bike I rode in the past. More miles on the road and less stress on the body with e assist. The Delite can handle any sort of road condition and a blast to ride especially in turbo mode.

 

[RMK!]

I've got a pre pandemic Delite purchased 2 years ago. Quite an amazing bike. I am pedaling at a higher cadence with this bike than any non e bike I rode in the past. More miles on the road and less stress on the body with e assist. The Delite can handle any sort of road condition and a blast to ride especially in turbo mode.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Is your Delite Rohloff equipped?

 

[Alanzo]

Thanks for the encouraging words. Is your Delite Rohloff equipped?

Yes I have a Rohloff. I ease up on the pedals when shifting to a larger gear. What's really nice is the Gates belt after a lifetime of chains that always got dirty no matter how much maintenance I did on previous bikes.The Delite is an easy to manage bike. Recharge the batteries after a ride and occasionally check the tire psi including front and rear shock. Only maintenance I can foresee is taking the bike to a local dealer for a service check within a few months from now.

 

[Alaskan]

We have a 2018 Homage Rohloff HS with the Fox suspension and E14 upgrades. It has almost 5,000 miles on it and has been an rock solid reliable bike, as has our 2018 Delite Mountain with, 11 speed derailleur, Fox upgrade and a delimited gen 2 CX motor, now with over 6,000 miles and still trouble free. We also had a 2019 Homage Rohloff HS that had an oil leak issue on the Rohloff and a bad creak in the frame that both were made right under warranty. Once the Rohloff was fixed we sold that one.

 

[RMK!]

Thank you for the information @Alaskan. Ebikes have become a healthy hobby for me and I appreciate your input. With all of your R&M experience, you are a good resource and you provide honest testimony regarding reliability of the R&M brand while also being objective and pointing out issues that need to be addressed by the dealer/manufacturer.

These electro mechanical bikes are more complicated than acoustic bikes and so require the user/owner to learn to use them properly. It is also beneficial if you're willing to do some preventative maintenance and are a reasonably good problem solver when issues occur. Being at the mercy of a dealer for everything can be frustrating for the customer and dealer and you are a good example of someone who takes responsibility and yet will call out problems appropriately.

Your thread on recent problems with R&M were candid and helpful for me in looking at the brand. Fan boy proclamations are better left to FB and these forums are a better venue for real and sometimes difficult conversations about this hobby.

I'm meeting with the dealer today and might just be brining the bike home this afternoon.

 

[RMK!]

Well the deed is done. It's to early for a detailed review and since it's a 2019 bike, who cares! I did take some photos:

Actually I rode to my office (15 mile RT) this afternoon on the new bike. The Delite GX was just as I hoped it would be, quiet, fast, stable and because of the drivetrain, very easy to ride. I get that many don't like the exposed battery but for me their are many more important issues. This bike ticks all the boxes for me including looks.

 

[Alanzo]

Congratulations!

 

[BruinMan]

Very nice eBike. Welcome to the Riese & Müller club. Congrats and enjoy.

 

[RMK!]

I took my first extended ride on the 2019 Delite GX Extream yesterday (38 miles) and it isn't hyperbole to say the dual battery GX is the best bike of any kind, that I've ever ridden. Smooth, powerful, comfortable with well thought out controls while being quiet and nimble are a few applicable adjectives. I can't think of one negative thing to say ... only superlatives. I was able to comfortably ride on the flats and inclines using Tour mode in 10th or 11th gear easily moving along at 20-25 mph. I finished the ride with 57% battery remaining which puts my max range at approx 80 miles on a single charge.

This 28 mph capable bike seems like it will go a good bit beyond that number and I will eventually find out what that high water mark is but I reached 32 mph yesterday in 12th gear and not at max cadence nor Turbo power mode. It is such a pleasure to ride that 2 plus hours in the saddle seems almost effortless although I am burning calories and getting a great workout. The Rohloff E14 chain drivetrain is the best drivetrain I have ever experienced in a lifetime of bike riding. I have had other IGH's that were at best challenging, but the Rohloff E14 is very fast shifting and nearly silent in it's operation. I know not to pedal while shifting and by scrupulously sticking to that regime, and performing required maintenance, this drivetrain should last a very long time.

The Bosch motor and controller were another pleasant surprise. Coming from riding a Specialized Turbo Creo with it's custom Brose motor and 35Nm torque, the Bosch Performance 75 Nm seems quieter, and is much more powerful despite a significant weight advantage for the Creo. Both are excellent bikes and worthy of consideration but in my opinion, and for my use, the R&M GX outshines the Turbo Creo in every regard.

I also ride a dual battery 90lb fat tire ebike with a Bafang 1000W mid-drive motor (160Nm) that was, pre R&M GX my favorite ride. That bike is huge (I'm 6'5"), fast and fun but the GX is in a whole other league in terms of build quality and performance. Both have off road capability and but the GX is much more nimble and trail ride capable.

Obviously, I'm a very happy with the GX like a kid with a great new toy. It is an expensive toy, but most of the really good ones are ...

 

[Alanzo]

I took my first extended ride on the 2019 Delite GX Extream yesterday (38 miles) and it isn't hyperbole to say the dual battery GX is the best bike of any kind, that I've ever ridden. Smooth, powerful, comfortable with well thought out controls while being quiet and nimble are a few applicable adjectives. I can't think of one negative thing to say ... only superlatives. I was able to comfortably ride on the flats and inclines using Tour mode in 10th or 11th gear easily moving along at 20-25 mph. I finished the ride with 57% battery remaining which puts my max range at approx 80 miles on a single charge.

After I switched to Super Moto X tires from Rock Razor and G-One I was able to pedal at 27 mph on a flat grade with minimal wind in 13 gear of the Rohloff E14. When I attempt to sustain a 28+ mph speed In the largest gear I get more resistance turning over the cranks as I am no longer using e assist. On my Delite the e assist shuts off above 28 and I'm pedaling a heavy non aero bike. I have no complaints as I know what it takes to pedal a 25mph sustained pace on a non e bike and its no problem with the Delete.

What amazes me is how efficient the 2019 Delite is in sport or turbo mode. My ride averages are 2-3mph above what I previously had with non e TT bikes. I cannot get the same max speeds I experienced on non e bikes but am able to sustain higher overall ride averages. For whatever reason the bosch motor on the bike works best with higher cadence in gears 10-13 of the E14 Rohloff . My understanding is the new Bosch motor have a larger gear and more torque than what is on my Delite. Really does not matter as I get an excellent workout with high cadence spinning and higher averages than whet I experienced with a Litespeed Blade or Zipp 3000 beam bike way back in my younger days. I would have never believed a non aero heavy bike with huge non slick tires would be more efficinet than a TT bike with rear disc, deep rim front and skinny tires. Definitely a lot fun with an bike.

 

[RMK!]

After I switched to Super Moto X tires from Rock Razor and G-One I was able to pedal at 27 mph on a flat grade with minimal wind in 13 gear of the Rohloff E14. When I attempt to sustain a 28+ mph speed In the largest gear I get more resistance turning over the cranks as I am no longer using e assist. On my Delite the e assist shuts off above 28 and I'm pedaling a heavy non aero bike. I have no complaints as I know what it takes to pedal a 25mph sustained pace on a non e bike and its no problem with the Delete.

What amazes me is how efficient the 2019 Delite is in sport or turbo mode. My ride averages are 2-3mph above what I previously had with non e TT bikes. I cannot get the same max speeds I experienced on non e bikes but am able to sustain higher overall ride averages. For whatever reason the bosch motor on the bike works best with higher cadence in gears 10-13 of the E14 Rohloff . My understanding is the new Bosch motor have a larger gear and more torque than what is on my Delite. Really does not matter as I get an excellent workout with high cadence spinning and higher averages than whet I experienced with a Litespeed Blade or Zipp 3000 beam bike way back in my younger days. I would have never believed a non aero heavy bike with huge non slick tires would be more efficinet than a TT bike with rear disc, deep rim front and skinny tires. Definitely a lot fun with an bike.

Thanks for the tire suggestions, I agree gears 10-13 are the sweet spot with the Delite Rohloff E14. What is your average cadence on a workout ride like you described?

 

[Alanzo]

What is your average cadence on a workout ride like you described?

Higher than what I use to do on TT bikes with large gear slow cadence. Back then one of the bikes was set up with a 63 chainring and a 12T cog on a 700C disc. Could only turn that over in the right conditions of flat grade and tailwind. Quite scary at times with strong wind gusts. Years of doing that stuff resulted in injuries that are now a part of everyday life. I cannot do with you can with the largest gear. As soon as I feel the resistance is too much I back off into easier to turn over gears. End result is lower top end speed than what I use to see on the speedo BUT overall ride averages 2-3 mph over the norm with non e bikes I rode.

Anotherr advantage with an e-bike is quicker recovery right after a climb. Much less stress on the body. It still takes effort to do a ride with with a good avg. no different than any other bike but less wear on the muscles and soft tissues. Doing more mileage with this bike than what I did 20 years ago. Very cool experience and I am fortunate to have the opportunity to ride a Delite.