Powerful Fat Tire E-bike w/ Torque sensor from Juiced Bikes

[tomjasz]

I have a set that I can take a look at tomorrow. I haven't had any problems but Roshan sent them at my request. That's why
I love doing business with him.

Yes, one of the good fellas selling bikes and kits!

 

[hurricane56]

Checking in here after about four months of ownership and 500 miles.

The bike is amazing when it works, but I've had the following issues:

1. Battery mount cracked - replaced under warranty
2. Front shock lost travel and got stiff - waiting for warranty replacement.
3. Motor/Controller having various issues.

I've been having intermittent controller and or motor issues. It first started around 375 miles where I'd loose motor assistance after the first mile, then the bike would begin working again with a combination of restarts and backwards pedaling. It seems like this would happen every other ride as I usually take the bike out for about 36 miles round trip to work and back. The issue got progressively worse until this morning the bike just stopped providing motor assistance and I was unable to restart. Luckily, I was only one mile from home and switched bikes. The motor now has a low pitched humming. I can tell that a signal and power is being sent to the hub, but can't diagnose anything with certainty.

I have an open support ticket with JB and we're working to find a solution, but as usual, their support people will only respond to email after about 2-3 attempts and several days. So in reality, it's like a week will go by before they advise a course of action and then I attempt to try what they advise. I'll keep everyone posted how this resolves.

 

[Macc]

I received my HF1000 precisely 20 weeks ago and have put on just over 1800 miles. All issues with the bike have been relatively minor. The only replacement so far has been the chain at about 1600 miles. I should have replaced it about 100 miles earlier but the symptoms I was noticing were not what I expected from a badly worn chain (kinda like chain suck). Tech told me I should have replaced it at 1000.

I haven't been able to find much information on how to figure the depletion of my battery. Conservatively, I have been using 10.7 volts (from 53.7 down to 43) as 1 cycle. I would have preferred to have used 54.5 down to 43 but after fully charging with the Cycle Satiator (to 54.5) and the default battery charger that Juiced sent they both registered at 53.7. So the inaccuracy lies with the display that Juiced supplied me with, unless my battery was initially depleted that much when I received it. Juiced's tech told me the 53.7 inaccuracy was within spec. I'm not really happy about that. Anyway, using these figures I have only used 45 full cycles so far. Extrapolated to 1 year would be about 120 cycles. I have ridden the bike 107 out of 140 days. The days I didn't ride were mostly due to rain. I have been taking very good care of my battery, most days only charging at 2A to 80% and only twice depleting to about the default cutoff point of 43V. I have as of yet detected no decrease of the 53.7V max. At this rate I expect this battery to be usable to me for well over 5 years (or in excess of 23,400 miles), everything else being equal! I'd appreciate it if anyone with more knowledge on this subject could correct any of my errors or misconceptions.

 

[tomjasz]

I received my HF1000 precisely 20 weeks ago and have put on just over 1800 miles. All issues with the bike have been relatively minor. The only replacement so far has been the chain at about 1600 miles. I should have replaced it about 100 miles earlier but the symptoms I was noticing were not what I expected from a badly worn chain (kinda like chain suck). Tech told me I should have replaced it at 1000.

I haven't been able to find much information on how to figure the depletion of my battery. Conservatively, I have been using 10.7 volts (from 53.7 down to 43) as 1 cycle. I would have preferred to have used 54.5 down to 43 but after fully charging with the Cycle Satiator (to 54.5) and the default battery charger that Juiced sent they both registered at 53.7. So the inaccuracy lies with the display that Juiced supplied me with, unless my battery was initially depleted that much when I received it. Juiced's tech told me the 53.7 inaccuracy was within spec. I'm not really happy about that. Anyway, using these figures I have only used 45 full cycles so far. Extrapolated to 1 year would be about 120 cycles. I have ridden the bike 107 out of 140 days. The days I didn't ride were mostly due to rain. I have been taking very good care of my battery, most days only charging at 2A to 80% and only twice depleting to about the default cutoff point of 43V. I have as of yet detected no decrease of the 53.7V max. At this rate I expect this battery to be usable to me for well over 5 years (or in excess of 23,400 miles), everything else being equal! I'd appreciate it if anyone with more knowledge on this subject could correct any of my errors or misconceptions.

54.6 is a perfect battery. I’ve seen and own batteries slightly off, like yours. Does the BMS have a balance function? Have you done any long charges to balance if your BMS does not?

 

[Macc]

54.6 is a perfect battery. I’ve seen and own batteries slightly off, like yours. Does the BMS have a balance function? Have you done any long charges to balance if your BMS does not?

I don't really know or know how to find out if the BMS has a balance function. Neither the display nor the chargers give any indication that they do and so far as I know Juiced hasn't indicated. But it seems that it would be a major overlook if the BMS didn't include a balance function.

I haven't charged for more than a few hours longer than after the "Fully Charged" indication. After more than 45 cycles wouldn't it be a little late for that to do any good anyway? Besides all this, it seems that the problem is the inaccuracy of the display rather than a problem with the battery, BMS, or chargers. I only wish I had another way to test whether when fully charged it is really at 54.x or 53.7; or maybe I do. Would I be putting my battery at risk by using a multimeter, like if I mistakenly reversed the polarity? The output of the battery has only 2 contacts but I see no indication of polarity.

 

[hurricane56]

I don't really know or know how to find out if the BMS has a balance function. Neither the display nor the chargers give any indication that they do and so far as I know Juiced hasn't indicated. But it seems that it would be a major overlook if the BMS didn't include a balance function.

I haven't charged for more than a few hours longer than after the "Fully Charged" indication. After more than 45 cycles wouldn't it be a little late for that to do any good anyway? Besides all this, it seems that the problem is the inaccuracy of the display rather than a problem with the battery, BMS, or chargers. I only wish I had another way to test whether when fully charged it is really at 54.x or 53.7; or maybe I do. Would I be putting my battery at risk by using a multimeter, like if I mistakenly reversed the polarity? The output of the battery has only 2 contacts but I see no indication of polarity.

Most if not all ebike battery packs have a BMS built in if there is only a positive and negative terminal. If not, each series of cells would require it's own cable to exit the pack for the charger to balance, like a RC liPO pack. The question about the Juiced Bike batteries is if the BMS balances the cells when it hits full voltage or does it balance it at any point above a set voltage other than full. The charge profile built into my Cycle Satiatior is set to end charge at 54.5-54.6v

I looked at my battery pack and the polarity is indicated on the output terminal, but the markings are super small.

 

[Macc]

Most if not all ebike battery packs have a BMS built in if there is only a positive and negative terminal. If not, each series of cells would require it's own cable to exit the pack for the charger to balance, like a RC liPO pack. The question about the Juiced Bike batteries is if the BMS balances the cells when it hits full voltage or does it balance it at any point above a set voltage other than full. The charge profile built into my Cycle Satiatior is set to end charge at 54.5-54.6v

I looked at my battery pack and the polarity is indicated on the output terminal, but the markings are super small.

I used my magnifier and found the polarity markings. Thanks. Unfortunately, when I measured with my multimeter I only got 0.9DCV. If I measured the way you posted before your latest edit would I be more likely to get a better reading?

 

[hurricane56]

I used my magnifier and found the polarity markings. Thanks. Unfortunately, when I measured with my multimeter I only got 0.9DCV. If I measured the way you posted before your latest edit would I be more likely to get a better reading?

Just checking but is the battery turned on?

 

[tomjasz]

I don't really know or know how to find out if the BMS has a balance function. Neither the display nor the chargers give any indication that they do and so far as I know Juiced hasn't indicated. But it seems that it would be a major overlook if the BMS didn't include a balance function.

I haven't charged for more than a few hours longer than after the "Fully Charged" indication. After more than 45 cycles wouldn't it be a little late for that to do any good anyway? Besides all this, it seems that the problem is the inaccuracy of the display rather than a problem with the battery, BMS, or chargers. I only wish I had another way to test whether when fully charged it is really at 54.x or 53.7; or maybe I do. Would I be putting my battery at risk by using a multimeter, like if I mistakenly reversed the polarity? The output of the battery has only 2 contacts but I see no indication of polarity.

Lack of balanc3 function is not and oversight, IME, rather pretty common. No it’s not to late for a long charge. I’d do several, if it were mine. Fully charged is 13 X 4.2v. Simple. Nominal is 13(s) X 3.7V. From new your results may 8ndicate a bad cell, or an imbalanced pack. Fully charged is 13 cells, in series times 4.2. No mystery. Reversing p9larity with a multimeter will only give you a reading with a minus symbol. -54.6 instead of 54.6.

 

[Macc]

Just checking but is the battery turned on?

I can't believe I overlooked such a minor point. Thanks. By the way, after my ride today I only charged it to 80% (51.5V on the Satiator) and it now shows 51.7V on the multimeter whereas on my display on the bike it will show 50.8V. So as I suspected it is most likely the display that is at fault. I am going to now charge to 100% and see what the multimeter reads. [Later] So the Satiator says it has charged to 54.5V and the multimeter reads 54.7V. Since I have more confidence in the quality of the $300 Satiator than my $20 multimeter, I would say that my multimeter is probably reading 0.2V high. I intend to try to borrow another multimeter to try to get one more point of consensus. [Later] Borrowed 2 more multimeters that read 54.3 & 54.4, so I think it's now pretty clear that the problem lies with the display accuracy.

Would I be within my rights to ask that Juiced replace my display with a more accurate one? If not, does it seem reasonable that since the display reads 0.8V low that I change the default 43V cutoff(?) to 42V? Of course, this is assuming that all readings are low by the same amount.

 

[Macc]

Lack of balanc3 function is not and oversight, IME, rather pretty common. No it’s not to late for a long charge. I’d do several, if it were mine. Fully charged is 13 X 4.2v. Simple. Nominal is 13(s) X 3.7V. From new your results may 8ndicate a bad cell, or an imbalanced pack. Fully charged is 13 cells, in series times 4.2. No mystery. Reversing p9larity with a multimeter will only give you a reading with a minus symbol. -54.6 instead of 54.6.

Thanks for your input. It looks like my problem is that the display reading is highly inaccurate.

 

[philerooski]

I would think that they would point you to what little documentation came with the bike. It clearly says within there something along the lines of "display is not to be used for scientific measurements, some standard measurement error is expected."

 

[Macc]

I would think that they would point you to what little documentation came with the bike. It clearly says within there something along the lines of "display is not to be used for scientific measurements, some standard measurement error is expected."

I'm not expecting precision, just at least the accuracy of a $20 multimeter, or provide some way of adjusting. They provided other ways of adjusting (like the cutoff(?) voltage), why not a way of adjusting the current voltage of the battery considering I doubt if my display is the only one that is this inaccurate? In my opinion, knowing what the voltage is at full charge is one of the most important indicators of a healthy battery. Of course, having used a few multimeters to determine that my battery is in good shape gives me some peace of mind, but this (reading 53.7V when it should measure 54.4 or 54.5) is just sloppy. Juiced should have tested all the displays and sent back the ones that varied by more than 1 or 2 tenths of a volt.

 

[tomjasz]

I'm not expecting precision, just at least the accuracy of a $20 multimeter, or provide some way of adjusting. They provided other ways of adjusting (like the cutoff(?) voltage), why not a way of adjusting the current voltage of the battery considering I doubt if my display is the only one that is this inaccurate? In my opinion, knowing what the voltage is at full charge is one of the most important indicators of a healthy battery. Of course, having used a few multimeters to determine that my battery is in good shape gives me some peace of mind, but this (reading 53.7V when it should measure 54.4 or 54.5) is just sloppy. Juiced should have tested all the displays and sent back the ones that varied by more than 1 or 2 tenths of a volt.

All displays are not as accurate as most multimeters. I go ridin* with a basic 7nderstanding of potential mileage. In nearly 5 years, I have yet to be caught out with insufficient power. Methinks thoumdoes protest to much. Thes are not scientific instruments. Just an eBike. <wink>

 

[tomjasz]

I'm not expecting precision, just at least the accuracy of a $20 multimeter, or provide some way of adjusting. They provided other ways of adjusting (like the cutoff(?) voltage), why not a way of adjusting the current voltage of the battery considering I doubt if my display is the only one that is this inaccurate? In my opinion, knowing what the voltage is at full charge is one of the most important indicators of a healthy battery. Of course, having used a few multimeters to determine that my battery is in good shape gives me some peace of mind, but this (reading 53.7V when it should measure 54.4 or 54.5) is just sloppy. Juiced should have tested all the displays and sent back the ones that varied by more than 1 or 2 tenths of a volt.

multimeter. It’s just not that critical.

 

[Macc]

So is it that my expectations are too high or that Thomas' are too low? Anybody else out there who can help us with this?

 

[tomjasz]

So is it that my expectations are too high or that Thomas' are too low? Anybody else out there who can help us with this?

History has shown me, with dozens of displays, that no display other than Cycle Analyst are likely to be as accurate as a good quality multimeter. That said my 3 year old 13s4p still charges to 54.5. Another was 54.2 from new and now 54.1V. When I'e seen voltages below appropriate, with a Fluke multimeter, I do a seiesof long charges to see if that one or few cells come up back to 4.2V. Sometimes it works.

 

[Macc]

History has shown me, with dozens of displays, that no display other than Cycle Analyst are likely to be as accurate as a good quality multimeter. That said my 3 year old 13s4p still charges to 54.5. Another was 54.2 from new and now 54.1V. When I'e seen voltages below appropriate, with a Fluke multimeter, I do a seiesof long charges to see if that one or few cells come up back to 4.2V. Sometimes it works.

Three different multimeters measure my battery at between 54.3 & 54.7. The display on the bike shows 53.7. I'd consider augmenting with the Cycle Analyst if they'd modernize the display. I know I may be being ridiculously picky, but the display's text is so blocky that it looks like it was made in the 90's, or earlier. My sense of aesthetics just cringes at putting such an ugly thing in my cockpit. The HF1000's display seems retro enough. I've been spoiled by the admittedly more expensive electronics that are more aesthetically pleasing.

 

[NeilCruz]

@Thomas Jaszewski Trying to clarify a typo .... was

seiesof long charges

supposed to be a "seesaw of long charges" (i.e. discharge down to 8% then back to 100+%) or was it supposed to be "series of long charges" ..

Both sort-of make sense but I'm thinking "series of"

 

[Rooster]

Three different multimeters measure my battery at between 54.3 & 54.7. The display on the bike shows 53.7. I'd consider augmenting with the Cycle Analyst if they'd modernize the display. I know I may be being ridiculously picky, but the display's text is so blocky that it looks like it was made in the 90's, or earlier. My sense of aesthetics just cringes at putting such an ugly thing in my cockpit. The HF1000's display seems retro enough. I've been spoiled by the admittedly more expensive electronics that are more aesthetically pleasing.

I'd take the accuracy of the cycle analyst over that junk any time. I've got mine mounted on the stem in the middle down low and it looks fine. Hell, at least you have an LCD, they didn't think it was necessary on my ocean current, just a bunch of red lights.