tomjasz
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"series of long charges" Sorry!
Powerful Fat Tire E-bike w/ Torque sensor from Juiced Bikes
- Thread starter Ravi Kempaiah
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tomjasz
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That's a familiar complaint, except that every "pretty" display I've seen has very few of the CA3 features. I go riding not looking at color displays. <grin> AND I want a display that can actually have useful functions that I can use to fine tune my ride. Noe of which can be done with modern displays at the same level.
hurricane56
Active Member
Which CA3 did you use? When my bike started having issues with the controller I decided that I’d rather not have to depend on Juiced for support. I just got done replacing the stock controller with a GrinTech Phaserunner and CA3. I’ve been running with this configuration for the last weeks M-F commute and it’s awesome. The new components eliminate the occasional stuttering from take off and I’ve programmed modes that make the bike perform like it should, ie. the bike won’t drop out of sport mode and default to a lower assist level. The only downside is I need to essentially decode the Juiced bike torque sensor if I want to integrate it.
tomjasz
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I have 2 CA3 DPS and a CA2(now used for Grin battery tester). There’s a great thread on endless sphere that several Grin fellows and programmers post on. You might get some help there. Pictures and good information get the most responses. FWIW. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1375369#p1376588
Rooster
Active Member
Cool, that's exactly what I want to do to my ocean current but I am trying to figure out how to incorporate the torque sensor. I'm gonna talk to Justin at ebike.ca. I already have the phaserunner but I have the v2.4 cycle analyst, I know I'll have to upgrade to the v3 but that's not a problem...just don't want to give up the torque sensor but I will if there's no other way. Grin just got a 24 magnet pas maybe I'll try that. Anything would be better than what it is now.
hurricane56
Active Member
I have the 24 magnet PAS sensor installed now, its ok but not nearly as fluid as a torque sensor. I emailed Justin at Grin Tech before I ordered and we exchanged a few emails about “decoding “ the stock torque sensor. His short answer was they usually don’t work with third party components, but since there is some interest from Grin Tech to offer something similar to the pas/torque combo sensor they would be willing to look at it.
I’m in the same boat as you currently. I could remove my sensor and send it to them. However, now that I have the bike running with the Phaserunner controller it’s too
much fun to have out of commission if I have to send the sensor to Vancouver.
Also FYI, the battery BMS has a limit of 40 amps, which is lower than the advertised 45 amps. So if you ever get setup on a different controller set your limit to 39 amps.
Rooster
Active Member
Appreciate the info, I'm gonna get a hold of ebike.ca and talk to him, I don't mind disabling my ocean current to send him the torque sensor as I ride my home built bike right now most of the time anyway. That would be nice to keep torque sensor that's on the bike. I would have to take all juiced decals off
Rooster
Active Member
Yeah I try to avoid the over seas shipping thing if I can but I definitely know who to go to if I have to. I know you like Mac motors but I deal with Luna and grin tech and and I have never had a problem with shipping or anything else for that matter. I'm checking out the Mac rear hub motor at Luna but I like 26" and unfortunately they don't have that option right now and can't tell me when and if they will. I can lace it if I have to but it's a PITA that I would rather pay to have done. Anyhow, my ideal set up for my ocean current will be Mac 6t rear hub motor, phaserunner controller at 35 or 40 amps, as I know my 17ah Panasonic battery would handle it , CA3, and the stock torque sensor pas but if I have to I'll go with the 24 pole pas and either way it will be better than what it is now, definitely know help from juiced customer support. Like I said, such is life.
hurricane56
Active Member
Sounds good, let me know if you send the sensor in. I’ll get some terminal blocks and see if I can probe the voltage to decipher the signal on my end.
tomjasz
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Grin/ebikes.ca is international, being in Canada. Shipping is quite high for smaller items. FYI, they will post small items at a reduced rate if requested. An amazing bunch lead by the boy genius!
I came to MAC motors after owning and running all BBSxx versions, 350W, 500W, 750W and finally the 1000W BBSHD. I was Louis at Luna, from November of 2015 - August 2016. I tired of the maintenance and found I really didn't need a mid drive. I recently purchased an eZee kit from Grin/eBikes.ca and was totally impressed by it's performance. Even nicer than the MAC, but I get good prices from MAC and it meets or exceeds all my uses. Enough climbing ability for the trails with some 7% grades and steeper depending on length. EM3ev is so easy to deal with for finished MAC wheels and I like that I have the choices of ALEX rims and black spokes. That and a sweet price, even with the shipping. The fellas doing support at Luna are great, and quite good, as well as avid riders. I just resent the marketing that has represented batteries as being built in the USA. Some are and marketing allows and even encourages the idea that ALL batteries are USA made. There's nothing wrong with a. properly built China battery. There is NO WAY to get prices that low on USA built batteries. Grin is quite the opposite and I think far more progressive, regardless of the negatives spewed by some.
All that aside it sounds like you're on track for a great build! I admire your willingness to take on that really quite powerful setup. BTW I had a good local LBS string a motor and a SA IGH wheel. It was under $100 each in labor and materials without the motor, and a very nice build.
I'd have another mid drive if the Bafang MAX looks like it'll be around longer than the BBS01 was. I have two great bike path bikes with BBS01 36V 350W that we really enjoy riding on a local walking/biking/skating path. Unfortunately parts are getting more and more difficult and seem to depend on old stock. Some items are already no longer available. Thats disappointing given they are only 4 years old. That path to obscurity is just to steep! They were expensive motors, not without quite a few issues. Still the only mid drive in the price range for a DIY builder. I have a TSDZ mid and dislike it greatly.
Sorry for being so long winded and opinionated but I learn from others opinions. Thanks for yours!
Rooster
Active Member
Don't be sorry for that, I love it. I Just learned that I might be building an ezee kit in the near future. Been wandering about the quality. Also the only rear hub motors I see on their site are 250, 350 watts. I don't remember seeing anything much bigger, I'll have to check it out. Maybe build a trike for a buddy here at the fish camp. He has a hard time on two wheels he falls down a lot, thanks for the good info might have to check out EM3ev and and see about a 26" Mac wheel build I just hate that over seas wait.
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hurricane56
Active Member
Ok, made a little progress last night. The torque/cadence sensor is like most other ebike sensors. It runs 5v to power the sensor and the torque and cadence sensors are both based on that. I didn't have time to look at the cadence sensor, but the torque sensor was almost 0v with no pedal pressure. Once I put some weight on the cranks the voltage steadily came up. I should be able to make a calibration scale that you can use in your Cycle Analyst. Since the cadence sensor claims to have 104 magnetic poles, I don't know if the Cycle Analyst will interpret this signal properly. I'll keep you posted.
Adding to this: It's likely that you'd have to do some rewiring to accomodate the sensor, swap out the default 10v power and pull power from another pad and then use a crank mounted cadence sensor and route that input into Cycle Analyst Torque/PAS plug. Not fully plug and play, but in theory will work.
@Tora Harris Will there ever be a 1000W MAC 6T option for riding faster on flat ground. I would imagine that 45 mph+ would be achievable with sufficient battery and controller and would it be comparable to Sur-ron's 50 mph bike on Luna's site?
hurricane56
Active Member
I know I voided my warranty by doing this, but I've said goodbye to my stock Juiced Bike HF1000 controller and have been successfully running a Grin Tech Phaserunner for the last 300 miles.
The last step in this process was to figure out the torque and PAS sensor. According to Grin Tech, the Cycle Analyst 3 is only compatible with PAS sensors up to 32 poles. So, if anyone is interested in doing this they'll have to use a crank mounted PAS sensor as described in my previous post.
For reference the torque sensor is putting out .84v at rest with zero pedal input. Using my own body weight as a reference to calculate the newton-meters applied to the cranks, the torque scale is about 140NM per volt. Upon testing the torque sensor with these settings, everything works great without the weird low speed shuddering of the stock controller and I don't have to worry about the controller dropping out of Sport mode or attempting to pedal backwards to resolve this.
The saving grace of the Juiced Bike hardware is they used relatively stock components and connectors. The additional components from Grin Tech were about $500, but well worth it as I can now completely customize the controller, display devices, PAS, Torque response, etc.
The last step in this process was to figure out the torque and PAS sensor. According to Grin Tech, the Cycle Analyst 3 is only compatible with PAS sensors up to 32 poles. So, if anyone is interested in doing this they'll have to use a crank mounted PAS sensor as described in my previous post.
For reference the torque sensor is putting out .84v at rest with zero pedal input. Using my own body weight as a reference to calculate the newton-meters applied to the cranks, the torque scale is about 140NM per volt. Upon testing the torque sensor with these settings, everything works great without the weird low speed shuddering of the stock controller and I don't have to worry about the controller dropping out of Sport mode or attempting to pedal backwards to resolve this.
The saving grace of the Juiced Bike hardware is they used relatively stock components and connectors. The additional components from Grin Tech were about $500, but well worth it as I can now completely customize the controller, display devices, PAS, Torque response, etc.
TForan
Well-Known Member
Do you really want to go 45 mph on a fat bike ?
hurricane56
Active Member
I was going to say the same. Anything above 35 mph on bike components is sketchy. Any faster and you essentially get bounced off the bike if your pavement isn’t as smooth as glass.
TForan
Well-Known Member
i hit 33 the other day on smooth asphalt and there was more left but not for me !
tomjasz
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34-36MPH with a 52V. MAC motors are capable of greater speeds but heat can become a problem. Want Sur Ron speeds buy a sur ron. These selfish toy boy sellers do a great disservice to the growth of the industry. The FAKE eBikes will bring rules none of us will be happy about. This self centered need for speed will eventually kill someone. Cages see bicycle, whenever I rode at higher speeds, 30-35MPH, I noted that the cages were far more likely to misjudge my speeding make turns in front of me. Interesting that NO fast bike builder EVER mentions braking distance.
sure, on a safe bike (frame, brakes, suspension, helmet, gear, etc.) riding in a safe area. not sure about tire width, could be skinner (2.5 to 3 in). Have you guys seen the crazy guy with username: electricbike on Youtube. He is nuts. I wouldn't ride like he does. He overvolts his bike getting it up to 75 to 84 km/hr in traffic. But, watching his Youtube videos is hilarious. powerrrrrrrrrrrrr! It can get crazy. Luna Cycles sells a 40 mph scooter. I'm not sure I want to be standing up on a scooter that goes 40 mph, but there are video of a guy riding one.
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