Power Bank as Emergency Booster Battery? / Bath Mat for the Mental Fool

[PCeBiker]

That's cool

My 1200 Watt hour battery was $850, so that 300 Watt hour isn't too far out of line, and like you said, they're built for hard use.


How do you get it to switch to 60 volts to power your ebike?

Does it speak canbus or uart ?

Or are there different output pins/contacts for 20v and 60v?

 

[6zfshdb]

There is a switch inside the battery that is activated by the tool being used.

 

[PCeBiker]

There is a switch inside the battery that is activated by the tool being used.

What if I'm the tool trying to use it in my ebike?
How would I flip the switch?

 

[PCeBiker]

But it doesn't appear to steer the tractor, so I'd need to hire a toddler to drive it.

It Does Come With A Working Remote !!!

And it's only $150 !!
I think that I'm going to have to get one?

 

[6zfshdb]

What if I'm the tool trying to use it in my ebike?
How would I flip the switch?

There are adapters for either 20V or 60V.

I use this one to provide 60V:

Amazon.com

The two center pins actuate the internal battery switch

 

[PCeBiker]

Right.
Duh,..
The switch would be built into the adapter,..



On a related note, I cut the grass and used my weed eater until the battery cut out.
I tried it in a couple tools and the tools wouldn't work, so the LV Cut-off is in the tool, and I was reading ~15½ volts on the battery.


Then I plugged it into my flashlight and I got a dim beam,..

And with a charged battery it was normally bright,..

I dropped my flashlight about 10 years ago and broke the bulb, and Home Depot wanted something like ten bucks for a new 36V incandescent bulb.
So I wired two 12 volt incandescent turn signal bulbs together in series and stuffed them into the light housing.
It worked but it was kinda dim, then the heat from the bulbs cracked the plastic lens because they were touching.

So I refurbished it again with a string of 1 Watt LED chips with no resistor.
I started with a dozen in series, then reduced the number one by one until it was bright enough.

I spent dozens of hours fartin around trying to save ten bucks and a trip to Home Depot.


I thought that the LVC was in the battery because there was no circuitry inside the flashlight.

 

[watsonwallace]

That's cool


View attachment 178564


My 1200 Watt hour battery was $850, so that 300 Watt hour isn't too far out of line, and like you said, they're built for hard use.


How do you get it to switch to 60 volts to power your ebike?

Does it speak canbus or uart ?


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Using a power bank as an emergency booster for your e-bike is an interesting idea, especially for those "just in case" moments. However, I’d be cautious about ensuring the power bank’s output matches your bike's voltage and amperage requirements. You wouldn't want to damage your bike’s battery or electronics by using the wrong type of power source. Have you tried this setup yet? I’m curious to know how well it actually works in practice and if there are any noticeable downsides.

 

[PCeBiker]

Have you tried this setup yet? I’m curious to know how well it actually works in practice and if there are any noticeable downsides.

I haven't but @6zfshdb has done it.
Maybe he can elaborate for us.

However, I’d be cautious about ensuring the power bank’s output matches your bike's voltage and amperage requirements.

I'm kinda curious about that too.
I know that @6zfshdb isn't using his batteries in parallel, so he wouldn't damage his e-bike battery.
And the Dewalt battery won't let you do anything stupid with it.
If you over amp it or overheat it, it will shut down.
Power tool batteries are built for hard use in all kinds of environments, and it's really hard to damage them.
My Ryobi battery won't charge a battery if it is too hot and waits until it cools off before charging.

However,..
A fully charged 60 volt battery is probably around 70 volts or more, and the capacitors used in 48 volt controllers are usually rated 60 volts and could fail if they see 70 volts.

So maybe @6zfshdb can elaborate a bit more about that?

 

[6zfshdb]

In my quest to find an "emergency" battery to get me an extra few miles, I looked at quite a few power banks. None would supply the necessary current for my 52V hub motor, so I started looking at power tool batteries.

I have many DeWalt cordless tools and a supply of batteries, which are capable of handling heavy surge current. I found a fully charged DeWalt 60V battery measures 64.6V. This will cause an overvolt error on many 52V controllers, including mine. I get around this by only charging to 90%.

I carry the battery on rides where the mileage is close to max for my e-bike battery, and have used it many times with no problems. However, many cordless tool batteries, including DeWalt, don't have a low voltage cut off, it's in the tool itself. It's important to find out if this is the case with the battery you plan to use. I have to monitor the voltage and make sure it doesn't fall below 44V. Below that level, damage can occur.

A 60V battery would be difficult to adapt to a 48 or 36V bike. There are other batteries out there that could be used though.

 

[PCeBiker]

Are the capacitors in your controller 60 Volt or 80 Volt?

It's my controller that I'm worried about.

@Ravi Kempaiah I working with a company in China to build a 52 Volt mid-drive motor and they had to upgrade the capacitors to 80 volt.

64.6 Volts on a 60 volt capacitor is too much.

Actually, I could probably upgrade my controller to a 70 volt controller?
My hub motor can probably handle 100 volts.
It's the amps that heat and fry a hub motor, and the sensors always run off 5 VDC.

Hmm
Time to check out AliExpress and see what's available.
Another controller/display replacement might be in order?

I can always run my 48 Volt batteries through a 70 volt controller with a smart enough display/controller combo.
Just like the dual-mode 36v/48v KT Controllers.

 

[6zfshdb]

I couldn't find specs for my OEM Dapu controller, so I just took a chance. It turns out the Dapu has an upper limit voltage cutout. It throws an overvolt error code when the voltage exceeds 60.4V and shuts down. I'm sure damage would occur at some point if the voltage were high enough but I don't know what that upper limit is.

 

[PCeBiker]

Well that's pretty cool !!

I don't know if either of my e-bikes have that error code?

Well,. as it turns out, I Do have an over voltage error code,..

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0852/6187/7560/files/860C.pdf?v=1719418189

I remember seeing that display manual now.
I scanned through it when I first got my e-bike, but I didn't bother reading it.
It was a little too wordy for my liking, so I just thought I'd wing it and play with the buttons to see if I could figure it out.

As it turned out, it was so easy to setup and program, I completely forgot about the display manual.

 

[PCeBiker]

Hmm
Time to check out AliExpress and see what's available.
Another controller/display replacement might be in order?

I think I want this,..

3000 Watts and will work with batteries from 24-72 volts.

I'm going to give myself a 24 hour cooling off period.
I already bought a "proper" bench power supply for $172 today.


Just found this amazing item on AliExpress. Check it out!
C$159.68 | Ebike Sine Wave Controller 48V 72V 80A with Light Function Brushless Controller and LCD Color Display For 5000W Motor Kit Parts

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mKwcXhe

 

[6zfshdb]

I can always run my 48 Volt batteries through a 70 volt controller with a smart enough display/controller combo.
Just like the dual-mode 36v/48v KT Controllers.

I would love to replace my OEM Dapu controller with a KT that has a better display, but fooling around with the motor phase wires and 9 pin motor connector is above my pay grade right now. I can't find the pinout for the motor cable so it would be trial & error with the possibility of damage. I also don't want to loose the way the the throttle and PAS interact on the Dapu.

 

[PCeBiker]

I would love to replace my OEM Dapu controller with a KT that has a better display,

I loved my KT controller/display until I got my Voltbike.
I've not riden my Et.Cycle T1000 (that has the KT installed) since I started riding my Voltbike, and I only rode my Voltbike once when it arrived then parked it for three months because I was too lazy to learn how to work it.

BUT !!!
The KT Display has the same standard Green/5 pin/Julet connector as my Voltbike, so I intend to swap displays and see what happens.

The KT display schematic is just about as hopeless as trying to memorize the meanings of all these parameters, ..

but fooling around with the motor phase wires and 9 pin motor connector is above my pay grade right now.

I managed to do all that with my Das-Kit motor to install my KT, so I'm not worried about that part, but I don't want to plug either display into either controller until I verify the pin-out diagram.

I can't find the pinout for the motor cable so it would be trial & error with the possibility of damage.

I'm pretty sure it's your standard motor cable connector just like my Das-Kit (re-branded MXUS) motor, but I'm not going to do something stupid until I can 'Sit Down and Think about what I've Done !!!'.

So I'll wait until this winter before I start poking and prodding.

I also don't want to loose the way that the throttle and PAS interact on the Dapu.

Yeah, I know what you mean, even though I don't pedal.

The Voltbike accelerates at it's pre-programmed acceleration power curve but I can over-ride it by giving it more or less throttle.

It pulls harder while accelerating when I give it more throttle.

BUT,..
I'm not sure if I'm actually getting "Full" power or not?
My Et.Cycle seems to pull harder and the Voltbike current/power meter is a dummy gauge like the one on my old piece of crap e-bike, and the temperature gauge on my car, where they are controlled by the computer.

I did however, turn my Voltbike down to 16 amps, so that could be why it feels so gutless.

I don't take notes and tend to forget A LOT of stuff.
Something to do with my short term memory or something.
I dunno, I kinda forget.
Maybe it's my home-grown medicine.??
⚕

 

[PCeBiker]

The KT display schematic is just about as hopeless as trying to memorize the meanings of all these parameters, ..

View attachment 181053

.

Speaking of parameters,.. does anyone know what L2: does?


I've been staring at this for over a year,..

2. L2 parameter is suitable for the super high speed motor controller. The default of the factory L2 is 0. When the parameter P1 parameter is greater than 255, the L2 parameter is enabled. Combined with P1 2.1 L2=0, the P1 parameter is set as the calculated value. 2.2 L2=1, the P1 parameter is set as the 1/2 of the calculated value.


3.1 L3=0, the controller only uses the no Holzer mode when the motor Holzer fails.



I'm thinking of cranking up my P1 parameter to up over 255 to enable warp speed.

But I'm worried about putting too much power through my Flux Capacitor, causing a Holzer failure then being thrown into some 3D rock garden somewhere in outer-space.

You never know where your ebike will land in the rock garden after you hit the HYPER SPACE button.



I'm willing to enable my HYPER SPACE button if I can find someone else to ride the e-bike.

I'm too damn old to go into outer space to blow up asteroids

 

[harryS]

P1 is the number of magnets in the motor times the gear ratio of a geared motor. It's used to calculate the speedometer reading on the KT displays.

The max allowed by the display is 255. If you need a P1 greater than 255, like 300, then you set L2 = 1, and the P1 entry is doubled, Put in P1 -150 and you're all set,

There's some funny stuff going on though, I have the same motor, display, and KT controller on my bike and my wife's bike. SInce her tires are 2.25" vs my 2", her tires are bigger, and her odometer is always different. I had the idea to adjust the P1's so we had the same indicated speed. That worked but the odometers didn't change.

I think the odometer is based off speed sensor and wheel size. Speed comes off P1 and wheel size. Why they just don't use one or the other ...dunno,