Please help me decide

[robroy90]

Greetings all!

I am trying to decide the route to take for my first e-bike. A bit of backgrouund info:

I have a Gary Fisher Utopia at my disposal, as a potential conversion donor. I don't know exactly how old it is, but I'd guess about 10 years or so. I do believe it was one of the last model years for it. It is in excellent condition, as it saw very little use.

I am also squarely in the Clydesdale category. 6 feet tall and about 280-290 pounds.

My intended use case for the bike is primarily paved trail riding, very little to no off-road/wooded trail use, and definitely not a commuter bike. We live in the burbs and way too far from my job to even consider using it for daily commuter use. This bike would be used on weekends and on vacations almost exclusively. I think that is what led me to buy the Utopia when I did. I definitely didn't want a road bike, because I don't see myself out there on the tour, nor do I see myself tearing up a mountain trail. I was trying to find a good balance. The Utopia does have front disc brakes, but I absolutely hate the seat, and have never been able to find something comfortable.

Therefore, am I better off trying to find appropriate parts for my Utopia, or should I just get something pre-built? Here are some of my preliminary requirements/considerations:

1. I want a throttle, and want the ability to go without pedaling if I don't want to for whatever reason.
2. I am not at all concerned with, nor do I care to necessarily comply with power limits. I like the idea of the 1000w BBSDH (for example)
3. I am becoming fairly certain I want to go with tubeless wheels and tires, as I hear they are far more reliable and less prone to flats. True?
4. I would want a more upright, pleasure-style ride profile.

So with those starting elements in mind, what would you do if you were me? Especially if you have converted one of your own and/or bought a pre-assembled bike?

My budget is somewhat flexible, but I don't want to buy a really expensive bike and not like it, or buy a bunch of parts to find out they either are not compatible with my frame, or will give out on me in months instead of years. I am definitely a "buy once, cry once" kind of guy when it comes to most any substantial purchase. I will pay for quality, but don't enjoy paying for a name that doesn't deliver.


Thanks for any/all advice. I truly appreciate it!

-Rob

 

[Dewey]

Hi Rob this is a useful thread https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/the-best-electric-bikes-for-large-people.22763/

 

[Lord Polymath]

I have an old Gary Fisher Wahoo that I was considering converting. It would be a fun project, and I might still do it in the future. However, a good battery, motor and controller plus all of the other stuff will add up fast. For me it made more sense to buy a pre-built online.

 

[indianajo]

- 90 doesn't register. 90W or E my maps say. Are you in Europe Asia or North America? Canada or US? I thought 38th parallel was US Canada border. If in canada, see ebike.ca grin tech in Vancouver. High wattage is illegal in Europe & Canada. Kits are still legal in US but bikes no longer are in many states.
I converted the bike I like, shown left, for about $800 over the bike. That included 1200 W geared hub motor, controller, throttle, switched brake handles, 48 v 17.5 AH battery, aluminum brackets to mount, screws, wires, dorman bullet connectors, XT60 connector for charger. If your route is rather flat, use a DD hub motor for even less. I bought a 1000 W DD kit for $189, but the geared hub motor for $229 uses about 60% the electricity on all the hills I ride over - about 66 in 30 miles. I ditched PAS I bought originally, I didn't like it. Took 2 days 4 hr a day to put the crank pickup ring on a bike that wasn't like the crank the ring was designed for. If it does fit, you'll need a special bicycle crank puller. I have 6 automotive pullers, and none worked.
Home conversions are tougher on mid drives. Since they wear out chains about 2000 miles, and I've never gotten a bike chain splitter to work, I didn't want one. BTW I've been a factory mechanic and split industrial chain many times. The Dodge small chain splitter doesn't work on bike chain. There is machine work to be done on your frame installing mid drive, many times. Mid drive also disposes of the 3 front sprockets I use to get up steep hills or fly in front of a stiff tailwind when I pedal myself without power. Geared hub drive doesn't drag unpowered, most mid drives do, DD hub does.
Good bikes for heavy people are made by surly of MN. Steel frame. See thread mentioned above for others.
I hear tubeless tires are hard to change out on the road. I can change tube in knobby kenda 2.1" in about 30 minutes. I only have to do it after the knobs wear down to 1/16" or lower. So mostly I change beforehand, unless I forget to look like last summer. If you have "goat head" thorns, spends the $120 for Schalbe big bens or something.
Seats are cheap on everything, even the $1800 bodaboda left. Buy a seat later & convert. I have a comfy Methuene I found at Salvation Army, but I don't think they make them anymore. The $35 Schwinn seat shown left is ****. It looks like the Methuene but details matter.
If you ride in the rain, make sure you get disk brakes. I don't see the point in hydraulic disks, my cable pull tektros work fine at 320 lb gross on 15% grades. I have 160 mm disks.
Happy shopping.

 

[PDXzap]

I thought 38th parallel was US Canada border.

You're probably confusing that with North/South Korea? Otherwise the US just lost a lot of it's demographic!
You should be able to click his location, it's a Google link, " 38.920, -90.012 ". Google maps say that he's north-northeast of St. Louis which would make sense given their apparent fervor for a certain NHL team.

@robroy90 welcome to the site. I think most of the folks on this site are going to tell you to test ride as many as you can... it's good advice.

 

[AHicks]

At 6'1"/315 or so, a bigger rider here as well. Mostly paved riding with maybe 10% hard packed trail thrown in for good luck. Strictly recreational stuff. An area I spend a lot of time in could best be described as coastal, with a lot of hills. This is going to stress lower powered bikes big time, so the bike I ride is a custom, starting out life as a Rad City (originally a 750w direct drive type), and at this point the only original Rad supplied electrical is the battery. Display and controller are by KT, and we're using kind of a high end drive, one with a lot of power, known as a MAC 12t. It's a gear driven rear hub type with a usefull top speed of maybe 25mph, though my riding seldom sees 20mph unless I'm going down a hill. The nice thing about this drive is that it doesn't use any more power than a smaller motor would, until the smaller drive is overwhelmed and more power is needed to get the job done - which is usually just temporarily. This to get the bike moving quickly for dealing with traffic/busy streets, and when you need it for one of those long coastal hill climbs. The bike has proven itself very capable, with an easy 35 mile range on the flat and an easy 25+ miles in the hills while cruising anywhere from 8 to 13mph (using the stock '08 Rad 13.5a 48v battery). Current project cost is maybe 2200. total

I would add that I did try a 1500w direct drive prior to the geared MAC 12t. I ended up going with the gear drive as the DD seemed a little overwhelmed when it came to dragging my weight up some bigger hills (to the point I had to crest the hills on foot). Note also the MAC uses MUCH less battery power than the direct drive 1500w drive did. The direct drive could barely make 25 miles on the level with everything else exactly the same. That same scenario would likely be swapped with increased speeds, say 20mph and higher where the DD would be more effecient than the geared drive.

 

[Browneye]

1. IMO you'll spend a grand-plus on a conversion. I would not do one on a bike that does not have disk brakes.
2. If you like to tinker and troubleshoot, are creative and capable, a conversion could make sense. They generally are not much less that buying a factory-built ebike.
3. There are plenty of bikes with a throttle - if that's important select one that does. The 'pedelac' provides assistance when you pedal - most find this a good mix of assist and self-effort.
4. Tubeless popular, my new bike is 'ready' but I run tubes. I don't recall getting a flat tire on any bicycle over the past 30 years. I do carry spare tubes, patch kit, tools, and a pump. The tubes get really old in the box. So if your bike is 'tubeless-ready' it's an option, otherwise it may or may not be able to be done on a donor-bike.
5. The best advice I got here and what cleared up the most questions on what I wanted was provided with a few demo-rides on various models at local dealers. Go visit them, see what they have, try out a few. This will also help you narrow down bike type that most interests you - mtb, cross/hybrid, cruiser, fatbike, folder or mini, etc. And drive type, be it a hub-drive or a mid-drive.
6. There are some very nice ebikes on the market in the $1000 to $2000 range, either from a local dealer or distributor direct. Aventon comes to mind, Magnum, you may have a local dealer. RadPower is setting up places to demo/rent their bikes around the country - have been very popular and enjoy generally good reviews. And of course the 'big-3' have very nice offereings - Trek, Specialized, Giant.

We did one of each - a conversion and a new one. Both are satisfactory, the new one cost about twice as much as the conversion one. The conversion has a throttle that is rarely used, the new one is pedal-assist - it assists when you pedal it at 5 levels. Both have a range of 40-50 miles, give or take.

For many having a dealer to provide assistance, break-fix, and warranty work is the difference between being happy or sad with their choice.

 

[e-boy]

Browneye , what level assist are you riding in and on what terrain , conditions , to achieve 40-50 mile range on your Giant Explore e +4 ?

 

[e-boy]

Oh , I see the answer in your post in the Giant forum :

"2019 Explore+3, marathon plus 47mm, 185lbs, mostly flats, average about 12mph, level 2-3 assist..."

 

[indianajo]

1. IMO you'll spend a grand-plus on a conversion. I would not do one on a bike that does not have disk brakes.
2. If you like to tinker and troubleshoot, are creative and capable, a conversion could make sense. They generally are not much less that buying a factory-built ebike.
6. There are some very nice ebikes on the market in the $1000 to $2000 range, either from a local dealer or distributor direct. Aventon comes to mind, Magnum, you may have a local dealer. RadPower is setting up places to demo/rent their bikes around the country - have been very popular and enjoy generally good reviews. And of course the 'big-3' have very nice offereings - Trek, Specialized, Giant.

The O.P. is "clydesdale" sized. The motorized Surly big easy is $5000. surlybikes.com/bikes/big_easy It has a Bosch drive which is a boat anchor when power is off. Also 1200-2000 miles to wear out 10 speed chains.
O.P can buy a surly disk trucker for $1500 and motorize for $1200 with 17.5 AH battery. DD hub drive drags like 2 sprockets higher power off, geared hub like 500W mac12 doesn't drag unpowered. Chains last 5000-10000 miles instead of 1000. If the motor is on the front the fine 10 speed shimano sprocket on the trucker cluster is not substituted for a cheap 7 speed. I ride front drive.
Crimps on dorman bullet or insulated .250 flag connectors with klein or ideal crimp tool are very reliable. Parts screwed on with machine screws & elastic stop nuts don't fall off. What other problems to troubleshoot? Buy battery from major like Luna ebikeling or californiaebike, not fly by nights on amazon/ebay/alibaba.
Note to O.P. Watts quoted on websites are watts electricity in. Out is a different story. I've measured my "1200 W" geared hub drive at about 400 W to the tire @ 4 mph up 15% grade with 320 lb gross weight. "1000 W" DD hub via amazon had about the same performance on the same grade.

 

[Browneye]

I just installed Schwalbe Big Apple 2.3's, so it may drop a bit, but that's okay. A quick test ride says it's a handsome improvement.
Wifey's Roll already had them from Specialized - their 'nimbus' tires.

Her bike was a very good conversion candidate - late model, 7-ring cassette, disk brakes, balloon tires, and she already loved it.
Bafang geared rear hub - 500w 48v. More or less a drop-in install, works really well. Some complications with brake-cut-off-switches, and I changed out the crankset to a single 42T from the 25/38/48 set. That cleaned up the lower seat-tube and the handlebars - she never shifted the front chainrings anyway.

I also had a fairly new bike, we got them together, but it wasn't a good conversion prospect - carbon fork, rim brakes, 9 ring cassette, skinny tires. It was the Specialized Crossroads Elite - nice pedal bike, but just not what I would want to deal with to convert. A mid-drive was probly the best option, but $$, and then having to deal with rim brakes at speed.

The new tires on the new Giant Explore...