Please compare Bafang Ultra vs Bafang BBSHD, especially reliability.

[Ebiker33]

Biktrix ultra is super tuned for his bikes, he has even developed firmware hex code beyond the regular programming, just buying the motor outright gets you nowhere, there is a real art to tune this motor.
And when it is done right, nothing on the market can touch it. So far the vendors that have mastered it are Biktrix, Luna and Exess with upgrade, Watt wagon is also working on it to, but they aren't quite there yet.

 

[TomD]

Take it all with a grain of salt. Nothing can touch it? Luna claims they tune their motors too. Whatever. I rode a Luna X1 and the torque sensing was nothing close to the refinement of the Specialized Turbo Levo that I test rode. I doubt Biktrix is doing much with custom firmware. If they were they wouldn't be so afraid to post torque sensing parameters.

 

[jono1331]

ultra has torque sensing built in. HD doesn't, thats well worth the extra expense

 

[Ebiker33]

Take it all with a grain of salt. Nothing can touch it? Luna claims they tune their motors too. Whatever. I rode a Luna X1 and the torque sensing was nothing close to the refinement of the Specialized Turbo Levo that I test rode. I doubt Biktrix is doing much with custom firmware. If they were they wouldn't be so afraid to post torque sensing parameters.

That's a Brose motor rebranded, a great motor for sure, one of the best, and the app allows you to tune it as well, but still only a 90nm. If you live on the flat land of North America that is plenty of torque, but if you live in the mountainous regions of the west coast and you want to throttle up a mountain side at 28 mph then you will need 160nm, tuned for that application.

 

[TomD]

Yes, I'm strictly talking about the torque sensing. I doubt Luna or Biktrix have tuned anything to the point that nothing on the market can touch it. Brose could make that claim. We could use more user collaboration in tuning these motors as opposed to Bafang dealers worried about it being "too easy" for their competition to copy.

 

[tomjasz]

Take it all with a grain of salt. Nothing can touch it? Luna claims they tune their motors too. Whatever. I rode a Luna X1 and the torque sensing was nothing close to the refinement of the Specialized Turbo Levo that I test rode. I doubt Biktrix is doing much with custom firmware. If they were they wouldn't be so afraid to post torque sensing parameters.

Luna exaggerates everything. Always has. But I've found Roshan at Biktrix to never be disingenuous. I'd rather hear from him and would take him at his word.

 

[tomjasz]

ultra has torque sensing built in. HD doesn't, thats well worth the extra expense

IF you're one that needs or wants torque sensing. The BBSHD remains a powerhouse and a great heavy-duty motor serving pedicabs and delivery vehicles where the simple PAS and throttle are very useful as is. My older customers are liking BBSHD performance and simple PAS. For me personally, until the Ultra has a good parts stream, I'm out.

 

[Four Corners]

IF you're one that needs or wants torque sensing. The BBSHD remains a powerhouse and a great heavy-duty motor serving pedicabs and delivery vehicles where the simple PAS and throttle are very useful as is. My older customers are liking BBSHD performance and simple PAS. For me personally, until the Ultra has a good parts stream, I'm out.

Why would you want torque sensing? Well, because you want the ebike to feel like an acoustic bike but with a stronger rider, that's why.

 

[tomjasz]

Why would you want torque sensing? Well, because you want the ebike to feel like an acoustic bike but with a stronger rider, that's why.

Sure, but LOTS of riders can't function on an acoustic and simple PAS still helps with a range of motion and allows a wider range of old fellas and gals to ride. That's my experience from 5 years of kit support. I've got dozens of customers over 65-70 that can't use torque sensing effectively and acoustic bikes are impossible. IME some of the torque sensing proponents smack of the attitudes of the spandex crowd. There are all sorts of different needs and suitable alternatives. I have customers that are total throttle users. Beats being couped up in a cage!

 

[jono1331]

Indeed, I support anything thats puts butts on bikes.

 

[Four Corners]

Sure, but LOTS of riders can't function on an acoustic and simple PAS still helps with a range of motion and allows a wider range of old fellas and gals to ride. That's my experience from 5 years of kit support. I've got dozens of customers over 65-70 that can't use torque sensing effectively and acoustic bikes are impossible. IME some of the torque sensing proponents smack of the attitudes of the spandex crowd. There are all sorts of different needs and suitable alternatives. I have customers that are total throttle users. Beats being couped up in a cage!

I am not saying that everyone must have torque sensing drives. I'm saying why someone might want one. That's why I wanted one and got one (Biktrix Juggernaut Ultra FS). I'm glad I did. BTW, I'm seventy-five. Don't wear spandex either.

 

[Pharroh]

I like the EggRider alot for the features but one thing I really do need is the USB port is because I use that port to connect my camera to so every time I ride my bike the camera auto runs and records every ride I do. I do NOT even have to think about it because of a long time ago when a car had hit me but did NO damage to me but the bike was bent pretty bad (this happen before I got my first BBSHD KIT) but when I tried to find a witness to the incident everyone did NOT want to get involved so at that point I decided to mount a camera on both bikes and every time something happened I had proof and you can NOT argue with a camera it does NOT lie.

Both of my camera have paid for them selves now and am much more careful every time I ride and had NO problems since everyone I ride around can see the cameras.

 

[tomjasz]

I like the EggRider alot for the features but one thing I really do need is the USB port is because I use that port to connect my camera to so every time I ride my bike the camera auto runs and records every ride I do.

I bought a power pack kit from Soshine and used my own 4 18650 batteries. I run my camera and use it to charge a phone and iPad when traveling. I will NEVER trust those cheap protection free ports on batteries. I have seen disastrous damage to devices when customers used them.

 

[Four Corners]

I bought a power pack kit from Soshine and used my own 4 18650 batteries. I run my camera and use it to charge a phone and iPad when traveling. I will NEVER trust those cheap protection free ports on batteries. I have seen disastrous damage to devices when customers used them.

Interesting, Thomas. I've been running my expensive phone off the Reention Dorado 48V pack that came with the Biktrix. So far, so good. I'd think that Apple or whoever should and would provide protection in their devices for over-voltage on a USB port.

To Pharroh: If you want to charge both a camera and a smartphone display from the bike's battery USB port, get a USB splitter of some sort. Also, how does your camera help when a vehicle hits you from behind?

 

[camdon44]

I bought this bike I have now from BPM and Dan over there is great to deal with .

When I bought mine FX1000 from them they told me they were not going to carry it any more because the import cost way to much and I can understand this because the previous bike I had was basically the same exact bike except it had a HUB motor and I removed that and installed a BBSHD kit and loved the bike again it was just the way i wanted it and then on April 29 2019 it got STOLE .


So I looked long and hard to find someone that carried the EXACT same frame design and BPM was it so I basically knew what I was buying before I bought it and the durability of the frame but the only difference was the Ultra drive incorporated into the frame and that is what I am playing around with now on the programming .


I want it to preform like my BBSHD on my other bike does but with the torque sensor it is a little tricky to get the setting right but I am very close to the perfect settings.


When I contact them about the display not working correctly they did me right and gave me a refund on the cost of a new display and I went and purchased the same display that came on the bike DPC 18 uart with 5 assist with Eco & Sport mode Now I am programming it as if it has 6 pedal assists and using pedals assist 0 as actually 1 and everything so far is working the way it should . I am just fine tuning the setting when it comes to the Torque Delta Voltage mv

I have been looking at the BPM bikes. I see that your FX1000 is no longer available. The F1000 is the other option. But the F 15RS is interesting as it has rear suspension and a 21 AH battery and is $600 less. But the F 1000 has 26 inch tires and the Ultra mid drive motor.

 

[TomD]

Ultra mid-drive is worth the extra money. I'd venture to guess the rear suspension on the F15RS will be severely handicapped by the unsprung weight of a heavy rear hub.

 

[tomjasz]

Ultra mid-drive is worth the extra money. I'd venture to guess the rear suspension on the F15RS will be severely handicapped by the unsprung weight of a heavy rear hub.

FWIW A number of full-suspension bikes were poor choices for BBSHD kits. To much torque. Lectric Cycles saw some failures.

 

[eBikeaholic]

I never had any reliability issues with the BBSHD but mostly ran it conservatively under 1000w @ 48v with fairly low gearing (highest gain ratio was 5.5). Plug n play after two years, never even had to re-grease it. The only things that bothered me was that I didn't install it correctly and it would swing a bit at the bottom bracket (they now make brackets to prevent that), and the chain would occasionally skip off (even though I had a straight chain line). Not a fan of derailleurs in general. I sold it because I wanted to try belt drive with an IGH and wound up going with a front hub motor for that next build.

As for the Ultra (G510) kit I only have a few hundred miles on it so far - can't say for sure just yet. It's been comfortably handling my stress tests and towing my trailers. At full power (1560w, 30A stock controller @ 52v) it does get real hot during summer... I may need to re-grease it at some point depending on the continued abuse, but it feels like a solid workhorse. It can probably handle 1000w peak with little to no maintenance.

I did need to adjust the torque sensor settings to get a consistent power flow, the factory settings are not great for road use. The torque sensor feels nice and smooth now but I probably wouldn't base the decision on that. There are also some people running the Ultra @ 60v or 72v, or even swapping the controller out for more amps. I'm not there yet and have no clue on reliability at that point but it's a consideration if you might want to eventually bump up your power.

The only issue I'm trying to figure out with my Ultra setup (52v Luna wolf pack 30Q) is that when I hit the LVC during range tests the motor shuts down and the only way to start it back up is to disconnect and reconnect the battery cable (or plug in the charger). Not a big deal but I have all the connectors internally routed so it's a pita to get to. I'm still range testing but obviously the goal is to avoid triggering the LVC in general.

Unfortunately the Ultra still doesn't have many frame options yet, but if you do go purpose built make sure you take a good look at the frame geometry specs. I almost bought a Frey HT1000 but wouldn't be able to get the frame to fit me properly. Biktrix seems like a good deal but I don't do fatbikes for transportation.

Hopefully some bike builders will eventually see the potential for a rigid Ultra commuter and give us one!

 

[vincent]

Wattwagon is a rigid commuter with belt and ultra

 

[TomD]

I think he means fully rigid (no suspension).