Peter Flax article for Bicycling.com about the challenges presented by DTC ebikes

[Dewey]

E-Bikes Are Booming—And Virtually Unregulated. Will This Lawsuit Make Them Safer?

Twelve-year-old Molly Steinsapir crashed onto the pavement from a Rad Power e-bike and never woke up. With a poorly regulated e-bike industry, who is responsible when a child dies?

www.bicycling.com

Article spurred by the ongoing legal action around the 2021 RadRunner fatal accident in California. Includes comments from the ebike industry on the US ebike market and regulations.

An earlier EBR discussion thread on the case.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

It's difficult to discuss a story such as this without sounding callous. My problem with the lawsuit is the parents are accepting zero blame for the death and injuries even though "they should have known" that the girls were too young, too inexperienced to ride an ebike under those conditions. Even a regular bike could have been dangerous to ride on that hill with two kids on board.

When I read about people crashing and getting killed or injured on these bikes I have to wonder how much experience they had riding any bike since they were kids especially with the boom in bike riding due to Covid. My guess is, many adults that rushed out to get a bike hadn't ridden one for years, and while they remembered how to balance, forgot the basic rule, don't grab that front brake.

This is especially true with today's modern disc brakes vs the old rim brakes most of us grew up with. People panic, and immediately grab both brakes, front wheel locks and over the handle bars they go.

In regards to these girls, I understand there's been talk of the front wheel coming out of the QR. I don't know if the QR was determined to be the cause of the crash, but I doubt they could prove whether it was properly tightened or if it was a design failure and the child grabbed the front brake in a panic causing it to rotate out due to improper torque on the skewer. One article I read that the brakes didn't work, is that the fault of RR, or the fault of the person that assembled it? Do the parents share some of the blame by allowing their child on a bike that wasn't properly tested to be safe?

All of this is/was left up to a jury to understand at trial, many member of the jury probably haven't ridden a bike, nor understand the technical aspects. It's all presented that young kids got killed and injured the the company with the deep pockets has to pay. We certainly can't look the the parent that lost a child and hold them partly to blame for allowing them to be on a bike in an environment they weren't experienced enough to ride in.

 

[mschwett]

It's difficult to discuss a story such as this without sounding callous. My problem with the lawsuit is the parents are accepting zero blame for the death and injuries even though "they should have known" that the girls were too young, too inexperienced to ride an ebike under those conditions. Even a regular bike could have been dangerous to ride on that hill with two kids on board.

When I read about people crashing and getting killed or injured on these bikes I have to wonder how much experience they had riding any bike since they were kids especially with the boom in bike riding due to Covid. My guess is, many adults that rushed out to get a bike hadn't ridden one for years, and while they remembered how to balance, forgot the basic rule, don't grab that front brake.

This is especially true with today's modern disc brakes vs the old rim brakes most of us grew up with. People panic, and immediately grab both brakes, front wheel locks and over the handle bars they go.

In regards to these girls, I understand there's been talk of the front wheel coming out of the QR. I don't know if the QR was determined to be the cause of the crash, but I doubt they could prove whether it was properly tightened or if it was a design failure and the child grabbed the front brake in a panic causing it to rotate out due to improper torque on the skewer. One article I read that the brakes didn't work, is that the fault of RR, or the fault of the person that assembled it? Do the parents share some of the blame by allowing their child on a bike that wasn't properly tested to be safe?

All of this is/was left up to a jury to understand at trial, many member of the jury probably haven't ridden a bike, nor understand the technical aspects. It's all presented that young kids got killed and injured the the company with the deep pockets has to pay. We certainly can't look the the parent that lost a child and hold them partly to blame for allowing them to be on a bike in an environment they weren't experienced enough to ride in.

there are probably a couple legal avenues here - 1, the bike was defective or poorly designed. i know i would never ride a disk brake bike with QR skewers, but perhaps the design is sound, perhaps not. who knows. 2 - the company makes it's product intentionally attractive to children, perhaps even through advertising, and does not appropriately warn parents that the product is for adults only. apparently it doesn't say anything until 50 or 60 pages into the manual.

we also know that to ride down a hill, at some point you have to ride up the hill. this is the only part of the case where the fact that it's an ebike is relevant. little kids probably wouldn't ride down a hill they couldn't ride up, although you never know.

of course it's the parents' fault. does rad deserve some of the blame? maybe, maybe not. i don't know enough about the facts of the case, design of the bike, or the law to say, but on the surface it's not the most ridiculous lawsuit i've heard of.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't want to discuss the legal matters here, just technicals.

Is this a bicycle or a mini motorcycle?

Does it look a bicycle?

Nothing wrong with QR and disk brakes as long as the vehicle is a bicycle. Even an electrically assisted one.

 

[PDoz]

This is an11 yo riding an ebike, it weighs about half the rad and has quality brakes ,suspension, and wheels, . We're not a 2 lawyer family, but there is no way we'd put her aboard a cheap overweight motorised vehicle with a passenger and blame someone else if things went wrong. At the time that photo was taken, she had 5/6 years experience on bicycles and had learnt to ride her 50 cc motorbike.

As for QR and disc brakes - NONE of our kids rode bikes with QR after about 5/6 years of age. I broke my fair share of bikes as a child, and still remember a mates face when his front wheel fell out as he was wheelstanding down the road....two brocken wrists and mummy wiping his bum for 8 weeks - he never married....kids have a terrifying ability to explore the laws of physics. Surely 2 people smart enough to be lawyers should have the intelligence to recognize this, and the financial resources to buy a decent bike / have it maintained?

For what it's worth, I've had a child involved in a high speed down hill bike accident. She was wearing a full face leatt helmet, body armour, and aboard a well maintained bike. It was a long day at the hospital, and I know horrible things can happen. I feel lucky, but also REALY glad we had invested in protective gear( and she was wearing it)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For what it's worth, I've had a child involved in a high speed down hill bike accident. She was wearing a full face leatt helmet, body armour, and aboard a well maintained bike. It was a long day at the hospital, and I know horrible things can happen. I feel lucky, but also REALY glad we had invested in protective gear( and she was wearing it)

Interesting to hear that.
A family of my friend in Poland seems to be somewhat similar to yours. The man rides a Trek Rail, his wife a Giant/Liv (both e-bikes). Their teenage son rides an unpowered Specialized Enduro. His father has never saved money for protective gear for his son, which saved the boy in a nasty accident he had on the singletrack. (Later, the boy did his first metric century, still on the traditional MTB).

The friend's son. Not in the body armour here but in the full-face helmet.

 

[McApple]

I found the numerous complaints about having to adjust the brakes every 70 miles, and owners buying brake pads by the dozen particularly alarming. A vehicle with unreliable brakes is an accident waiting to happen; it's not if, it's when.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I found the numerous complaints about having to adjust the brakes every 70 miles, and owners buying brake pads by the dozen particularly alarming. A vehicle with unreliable brakes is an accident waiting to happen; it's not if, it's when.

You must be talking about some Chinese cr*p. The front brake pads on my heavy Vado 6.0 are routinely replaced each 4,000 km (2,500 mi) and the rear ones last for 8,000 km (5,000 mi) and do not require any adjustment. The brake pads on my lightweight Vado SL 4.0 have been used for 7,700 km (4,780 mi) and still need no replacement.

 

[m@Robertson]

I don't want to discuss the legal matters here, just technicals.

View attachment 145978
Is this a bicycle or a mini motorcycle?

View attachment 145983
Does it look a bicycle?

Nothing wrong with QR and disk brakes as long as the vehicle is a bicycle. Even an electrically assisted one.

While I think the Rad Runner and most of the bikes Rad produces are junk, that is a separate issue. Categorizing bikes by how they look is not a valid method for deciding much of anything. Like its look or not, the Rad Runner is designed for a job. A totally different job than a recreational rider. So ... get over it?

Is this a bicycle? Its look is even more dramatically different. Its not for everyone, but then thats diversity for you.

Intolerance is always ugly.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As I recognise the need of cargo e-bikes as a replacement for the car, I cannot tolerate mini-motorcycles pretending to be bicycles.

 

[osric]

I find most folks in my town who ride DTC e-bikes from Rad or Lectric are *always* using the throttle (I can hear the difference from the sound of the motor, and it's kind of obvious when the motor is whirring & they're not pedaling).

I had hoped that Class 1, pedal-assist-only would be the norm for e-bikes in the US, but that hasn't been the case. Buyers seem to like the throttles.

 

[m@Robertson]

As I recognise the need of cargo e-bikes as a replacement for the car, I cannot tolerate mini-motorcycles pretending to be bicycles.

While I think the rad design is terrible (and the Bicycling article goes into good detail as to why, particularly the whole issue of trail and mechanical brakes) but the general minibike design serves a purpose that is valid. Urban local mobility. Not my type of ride at all, but it is for a lot of people. Particularly those who are not cyclists but who are riding now that they have a tool that fits their needs.

The niche these types of bikes fill was well-explained in that article, which I thought was very well-balanced. That niche is one that 'legacy' cyclists seem to take common exception to. at least they do here on this forum, albeit not in the general marketplace. In my mind taking such exception takes they eyes off the ball: More ebikes mean fewer cars. The definition has to be broadened and prejudices over earning the right to ride the bike via effort have to be set aside.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

It's a 67lb bike with an extra 50 to 60 lbs on the back depending upon the weight of the kid, maybe more. The bike was probably equal to, if not heavier than the rider. Maybe the parents missed the warning about not letting young kids ride it because they were too busy reading up on the Prop65 warning and trying to figure out how not to lick the circuit boards of the electronics inside. To me, it's common sense to not let an 11yr old ride something that's too heavy for them, but sadly, common sense isn't that common anymore. I have an 11yr old, and he's not allowed to touch my bike, but we have quite the collection of other bikes that he is allowed to ride.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

I don't want to discuss the legal matters here, just technicals.

View attachment 145978
Is this a bicycle or a mini motorcycle?

View attachment 145983
Does it look a bicycle?

Nothing wrong with QR and disk brakes as long as the vehicle is a bicycle. Even an electrically assisted one.

According to the law in my state, it meets the definition of an Ebike. It has functional pedals, it has a motor that is not more than 1hp and cannot maintain more than 25mph on throttle. Therefore, it's a bike. The girls could have been killed or injured on the bike below on the terrain they were on. The RR, being a single gear, you can't pedal to gain more speed down a hill such as that. It's all gravity and the only real resistance is from wind. The most I've gotten mine to on a similar grade was 39mph, and it rode well no wobble from the front or back, and I was able to safely use the brakes.

There may have been a couple of factors that came into play in this, my money on the most significant is the lack of experience. No knows when the front wheel came of, and it's quite possible it came off during the crash, and was not the cause of it. The lack of experience comes into play that the child didn't realize before they rolled out that the brakes weren't functioning properly. Don't know about you, but before I leave my driveway, I ensure that they work, if they need adjustment, I stop and do that. I've been doing that since I was a teen.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

cannot maintain more than 25mph on throttle.

Is it Class 2? Not. Class 2 is 20 mph. Class 3 allows no throttle and it is 28 mph.

Therefore, it's a bike.

It is an illegal moped.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Is it Class 2? Not. Class 2 is 20 mph. Class 3 allows no throttle and it is 28 mph.

It is an illegal moped.

Not according to the laws of my state.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not according to the laws of my state.

What are they, exactly?
Because I think Pennsylvania e-bike law reads: "Electric-Assist bicycles are now legal on Pennsylvania roadways as part of Act 154. In a convoluted way since first introduced in 2010, a last minute amendment was introduced by Representative Kevin Schreiber (D-95) with identical language to HB 213 by Seth Grove (R-196), which was also identical to SB 997 introduced by Mike Fleck. A definition of electric-assist bicycles [pedalcycles] will be added to the Vehicle Code. E-Bikes now will be allowed if: they include operable pedals, speed limit of 20 mph under power, motor rated at no more than 750 watts (1 hp), no more than 3 wheels, weight not more than 100 pounds, and not to be operated by persons under 16 years old."

I need to mention the tragic incident described in the article happened in LA, CA. Are you aware of the California e-bike law?

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

What are they, exactly?
Because I think Pennsylvania e-bike law reads: "Electric-Assist bicycles are now legal on Pennsylvania roadways as part of Act 154. In a convoluted way since first introduced in 2010, a last minute amendment was introduced by Representative Kevin Schreiber (D-95) with identical language to HB 213 by Seth Grove (R-196), which was also identical to SB 997 introduced by Mike Fleck. A definition of electric-assist bicycles [pedalcycles] will be added to the Vehicle Code. E-Bikes now will be allowed if: they include operable pedals, speed limit of 20 mph under power, motor rated at no more than 750 watts (1 hp), no more than 3 wheels, weight not more than 100 pounds, and not to be operated by persons under 16 years old."

I need to mention the tragic incident described in the article happened in LA, CA. Are you aware of the California e-bike law?

I got a figure wrong because I writing from memory. Regardless, the RR2 still fits the definition of an Ebike not a moped under PA law. I looked all this up before I purchased it. It is not more than 1hp it has 2 wheels, it has operable pedals, from the factory it is limited to 20mph, and it weighs 67lbs. I did all that and I'm not an attorney.

If that bike is illegal under CA law that again falls upon the shoulders of the highly educated attorneys that failed to see if it was legal before purchasing it, and giving it to their young child, does it not? If they allowed their child to ride an illegal vehicle, shouldn't they be brought up on child endangerment charges?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I got a figure wrong because I writing from memory. Regardless, the RR2 still fits the definition of an Ebike not a moped under PA law. I looked all this up before I purchased it. It is not more than 1hp it has 2 wheels, it has operable pedals, from the factory it is limited to 20mph, and it weighs 67lbs. I did all that and I'm not an attorney.

If that bike is illegal under CA law that again falls upon the shoulders of the highly educated attorneys that failed to see if it was legal before purchasing it, and giving it to their young child, does it not? If they allowed their child to ride an illegal vehicle, shouldn't they be brought up on child endangerment charges?

I'd like you to show me where is the speed limit or Class of RR2 listed on the RR2 webpage.

RadRunner™ 2 Electric Utility Bike

Our moped-style electric bike is designed to ride like a utility cargo ebike. 300+ accessory combinations help carry everything — even your best friend.

www.radpowerbikes.com

"Our moped style" says it all about that Chinese cr*p.

As I say, I do not want to go on a legal debate here.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

I'd like you to show me where is the speed limit or Class of RR2 listed on the RR2 webpage.

RadRunner™ 2 Electric Utility Bike

Our moped-style electric bike is designed to ride like a utility cargo ebike. 300+ accessory combinations help carry everything — even your best friend.

www.radpowerbikes.com

"Our moped style" says it all about that Chinese cr*p.

As I say, I do not want to go on a legal debate here.

But yet you are. Moped style does not equal a moped according the actual law you cited for PA. But your elitist snobbery is well noted.