People throwing electric scooters into lakes and rivers ???

[Deleted member 4210]

https://slate.com/technology/2018/1...-lime-lakes-rivers-environment-vandalism.html

Why do people keep throwing electric scooters into rivers and lakes—and what should companies like Bird and Lime do to stop them?

Sorry, but the amusement of this topic, is simply too much to keep from sharing.

At least this problem doesn't exist for e-bikes. (that I know of)

First it was scooters being dumped and 'littering' street corners of populated cities. Now its become an environmental issue for public waters ? Who da thunk it ?

I think the entire idea of 'bike sharing', 'scooter sharing', etc. has gotten way beyond the limits of what most cities are equipped to handle, and these share companies are doing everything in their power to get gazillions of these devices out there, whether people really need them or not, or whether its practical and a true societal benefit. A lot of Divvy bikes are in poor condition, and honestly they've become a bit of an eyesore in a lot of cities.

 

[6zfshdb]

While vandalism likely accounts for a significant number of these incidents, there are those who consider the proliferation of abandoned scooters to be "landscape pollution". Dumping them in a body of water gets them off the street and ensures they won't return. In reality, this is just trading one form of pollution for another.

 

[christob]

I won't deny - the thought of chucking a scooter into the Potomac, whenever it was left by the last rider, toppled over and half-blocking the bike trail, crosses my mind at least twice a week here.
I wouldn't ever do it, but I think I take a secret delight knowing others have done it (which yes, is a senseless joy, because it simply represents a new man-made pollution of the waterways.)
I agree too, cities aren't equipped for the approach seemingly adopted by the renting companies, who appear content to let their members operate under "just drop your rental scooter WHEREVER you see fit do so, dear rider -- the world is all about you and your convenience, after all; no need to think of anyone else when you use our product." (That seems to be a growing problem in American society overall, but, a topic suited for a different thread!
They (the dropped-anywhere scooters) pose serious dangers as not-always-easily-seen obstacles on trails, paths, sidewalks, bike lanes... And yes, they are also a nasty visual blight, looking for all intents as "discarded large debris" in the landscape. Sidewalks cluttered with them at all angles and positions, just look crappy and contribute towards a subtle "this town doesn't give a damn about its public spaces" perception.
It would probably be a different story if they were docked rentals, but I realize that would eliminate a big part of their go-anywhere / leave-anywhere appeal. I'd probably rather see them NOT be rentals at all, but made cheap enough that ANYONE realistically could buy their own, and thus, take it with them / be responsible for it, when done riding.
It is a complex topic to consider, since I'm in favor of the idea of increased, car-less, e-based mobility solutions!

 

[AHicks]

I think the leave it when/where you are done using it philosophy will never work from a rental standpoint. I can see stuff run until dead or left out in the woods for that matter. How do they plan on turning a profit like that? Seems like a scooter taken out of normal rotation would be seen as a huge hit from a profit standpoint. Maybe I don't understand how this is SUPPOSED to work. Is somebody subsidizing this kind of thing?

 

[Bobsiii]

After getting regularly buzzed and brushed once on my daily walk around Sloan's Lake I'd gladly chuck scooters into it - except we had such a dry hot summer the lake's so low they'd just lay there, kinda like they do everywhere else. Denver is clueless about how to deal with them, and in an even deeper fog regarding e-bikes (unaddressed, as far as I know)

 

[6zfshdb]

Perhaps the rental companies should be required to provide dumpsters around town for "deposit" of unwanted scooters.

 

[heytchap]

The dependency on cars needs to be broken; further, in the absence of public transit scooter and bike shares are really the only feasible way to encourage movement within a city center in the absence of transit while also mitigating the effects of cars.

The scooters are a benefit to cities, they reduce congestion by removing vehicles and are easy modes of transit for people moving from point A to point B in a 0-to-20mi radius.

 

[heytchap]

Now THAT is a funny reply.

Things that are revolutionary, things that upset the market, they take time to come into their own and scooters are no different.

The scooters have obviously taken off for a reason and a large segment of the population have embraced the scooters are the next modal wave. They are cheap to maintain, cost pennies to rent, and are abundantly available for the masses at their convenience when and as necessary. It’s not that difficult to understand why they’re popular.

Why have docked bikes largely failed when dockless scooters have taken the country by storm nearly overnight? Convenience! No docking model gives you absolute freedom to move within a city, stop at your whim, and let someone else take the scooter elsewhere when you jump off. Docked bikes do not offer that kind of freedom and it’s plain to see why they have largely failed.

Tourists don’t want to get sweaty pedaling bikes on their holiday, they want to cruise and be taken somewhere - scooters support this. The man in the suit on the way to work, too, doesn’t want to get sweaty riding; here, too, scooters offer the solution. It’s really simple.

The city is meant to be shared by everyone and to be used. My taxes pay for the bike lanes, my taxes pay for sidewalks, my taxes pay for city upkeep. There’s no argument there against scooters because everyone is paying for the upkeep the same as we pay for car and bike travel lanes.

 

[christob]

I didn't express an opinion to ban scooters, actually expressed support for more e-mobile solutions, and didn't express any fear of them. And having ridden scooters several times now {fun, but my bike more than meets my daily office commute needs} I'm quite surprised to suddenly learn I apparently fear them, because you say so. You seem to also miss the point that the few complaints being discussed here in this thread are really about consequences of scooter rider behavior...

 

[Mr. Coffee]

A lot of people aren't exactly happy with dockless bike share and dockless bike share either. But scooters are lighter weight and easier to throw into the river than an e-bike.

 

[Angela M.]

Hi! This thread was starting to get a bit out of hand. I'd like to remind everyone that as a member of this forum, you agree to be kind to each other. If you feel you must resort to name calling or putting others down, ignore it and/or move along. It's possible to have a healthy discussion even if you have a difference of opinion. You're all valued members here and we'd like to keep it that way.

So let's move the conversation back to talking about scooters, rivers & lakes

Thanks everyone!

 

[CodyDog]

In Austin, we see the ride share scooters in unusual areas. People do leave them in the middle of the side walk occasionally.

 

[AHicks]

Things that are revolutionary, things that upset the market, they take time to come into their own and scooters are no different.

The scooters have obviously taken off for a reason and a large segment of the population have embraced the scooters are the next modal wave. They are cheap to maintain, cost pennies to rent, and are abundantly available for the masses at their convenience when and as necessary. It’s not that difficult to understand why they’re popular.

Why have docked bikes largely failed when dockless scooters have taken the country by storm nearly overnight? Convenience! No docking model gives you absolute freedom to move within a city, stop at your whim, and let someone else take the scooter elsewhere when you jump off. Docked bikes do not offer that kind of freedom and it’s plain to see why they have largely failed.

Tourists don’t want to get sweaty pedaling bikes on their holiday, they want to cruise and be taken somewhere - scooters support this. The man in the suit on the way to work, too, doesn’t want to get sweaty riding; here, too, scooters offer the solution. It’s really simple.

The city is meant to be shared by everyone and to be used. My taxes pay for the bike lanes, my taxes pay for sidewalks, my taxes pay for city upkeep. There’s no argument there against scooters because everyone is paying for the upkeep the same as we pay for car and bike travel lanes.

The way I see it, there's no argument regarding the use of scooters. As far as I'm concerned you can use one wherever, whenever you want to, especially if you own it. The question I'd like to see answered/discussed, is regarding how to control where they are left, seemingly abandoned.

The only way I see to do that, is to hold the person who checked the rental bike/scooter out responsible. The down side I see to that is what happens when the person that checked the bike/scooter out has to leave it unattended for a minute, and somebody else decides to jump on and go for a free joy ride. You would have to have a way to disable the bike/scooter when unattended, no?

Too much potential for abuse to be practical in my mind. Figure out how to control that and I'm in, with both feet!

 

[Pegasus]

In Melbourne, Australia, we had as of last year the so called O-Bikes. These were undocked bikes that could be hired via an app. When the user had finised with them, they were just left anywhere. It became a "sport" of sorts to throw these bikes into rivers and creeks. Leave them high up in trees etc. It reached the stage where 30 or more of these bikes were being pulled out of the Yarra River almost daily and they could be seen dumped anywhere. It was always a mystery why generally law abiding people thought it to be ok to steal private property and deal with it in this way? Maybe it was to do with the undocked nature of the bikes. They didn't appear to have anyone caring for them. There was no support network. We have another company of blue-bikes that are docked. To hire them and retrieve a deposit, they must be docked. These are generally well treated.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

In general I have very little sympathy for the business model that the "undocked" bikeshare and scootershare companies are using. The math just doesn't work.

 

[Alphbetadog]

It's the cool thing to do. After your done with your e-share just pitch it. Extra points if you can make the water, or get it hung up in the trees. Remember the old days with telephone booths with phone books in them? You could find a number you needed quickly. Then it got cool just rip out the whole page with the number that you needed. Cool. The heck with common courtesy for anyone else.

But somehow that changed about letting your dog poo in public. Used to be cool to just let them do it where ever. Even funny when you saw some smuck step in it. But somehow it became very un-cool not to pick it up. Where you leave your e-share should become like dog crap.

No I will throttle my sarcasm meter down...

 

[AHicks]

In general I have very little sympathy for the business model that the "undocked" bikeshare and scootershare companies are using. The math just doesn't work.

My point exactly. I can't help but believe the issue regarding abandoned scooters and bikes is a temporary one. There's just no way the owners can turn a profit. If they can't turn a profit, they aren't going to be around long.

 

[6zfshdb]

According to CNN, Lime is worth 2 billion. They must be making money somehow.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/opinions/dangers-of-e-scooters-vox/index.html

There is already an e-scooter backlash in some cities. Miami has outright banned them while other cities like Nashville and San Francisco are impounding abandoned scooters. San Diego is ticketing riders without helmets.

The doctor, who wrote the above article, thinks it will be a massive wave of injury lawsuits that will ultimately bring down the e-scooter companies.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

According to CNN, Lime is worth 2 billion. They must be making money somehow.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/opinions/dangers-of-e-scooters-vox/index.html

There is already an e-scooter backlash in some cities. Miami has outright banned them while other cities like Nashville and San Francisco are impounding abandoned scooters. San Diego is ticketing riders without helmets.

The doctor, who wrote the above article, thinks it will be a massive wave of injury lawsuits that will ultimately bring down the e-scooter companies.

Valuations aren't the same as profitability. A valuation is really about estimating how many people want to invest in your company. And people, even really, really smart people, are incredibly bad at making investment decisions.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

Hey, let's do a 'study', before we make a decision to do it anyway. (in otherwords, the study wont deter us from doing this, because there is 'money' in it for the city)

Says Chicago. (politics at its finest)

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-biz-scooter-study-transit-20181213-story.html