tomjasz
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Which one isn’t? Not meaning to be sarcastic, but seems like every PIA OSHA regulation was the result of the idiots among us. (Sometimes victims)
People for Bikes: Progress on Ebike Laws in the US
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I think most regulations (especially safety regulations like OSHA is responsible for) are well intended but legislators tend to view every one in isolation. Either they don't see the overload of bureaucracy or don't care. Part of me thinks that since most politicians are lawyers and lawyers need litigation to make a living they create BS regulations knowing it's the best way to generate litigation. The problem is that these regulation and litigation are going to strangle the value-adding capacity of the economy (lawyers really don't add value to anything as much of what they do would not be necessary if people would just have common sense and respect for others).
Sadly ebike regulations have already had negative impacts on the industry - the urban mobility adoption rate is slower than it would be if ebikes were allowed rational power and assist levels to ensure they are an effective urban mobility solution.
I suspect the model laws, including the class 3 restrictions, that are being put forth by People for Bikes had to go through quite a vetting process and that the prospect of fast bikes on trails was scary to many people who participated in that process. The laws that People for Bikes are advocating are probably way better than it could have been. With that being said, I'm completely with you on this subject. The problem with restricting class 3 ebikes from trails is that hardly anyone can tell which bikes are class 3 unless someone is actually caught going over 20mph on them. So, in that sense, riding a class 3 bike on a trail is a pretty safe endeavor unless you're going faster than is actually safe or sane for most trails. So maybe, as a class 3 ebike rider, it's all imperfectly perfect? I do agree that speed limits on trails would be a helpful thing. In my experience the fastest bikers are not on ebikes at all, they're riding regular (non-electric) racing bikes at over 25 mph trying to beat their best times on trails that are often crowded with elderly people and kids.
If the speed limit can’t be argued as the basis for the assist limit, what is it’s basis?
I pulled this from another article on this subject and it's a profound question. We don't limit the speed capability of cars based on the speed limits of the streets. We establish what are thought to be relatively safe speed limits for the different roads used by cars as we can do with bikes. The assist speed limits will fail to hold up over time because there is simply no way to enforce it (it's just too easy to alter a control system to unlock the assist limit and any bike can just add an "off-road" mode that can be utilized as desired. Most bike riders are going to ride at a safe speed determined by the conditions (bike path, density of bike path, pedestrians, weather, etc.) because they do not want to be injured in an accident.
I think the real debate on this subject is the interest in the insurance industry and DMV wanting to generate new revenue from bikes. They are the ones behind the regulatory push to set slow assist speeds to have an eBike classified as a traditional bike. They want to make money on any ebike that has an assist speed higher then 20mph (US assist limit of Class 1 eBikes being adopted by more and more states). I live in Colorado which has adopted the 3 class system and I have a Class 3 eBike that assists past 20mph. When I called several major insurance companies to get quotes on liability coverage only, they quoted me as if I was going to be riding a large motorcycle (they weren't even aware that Colorado had adopted the Class 3 system over 6 months earlier). Needless to say I was not going to pay those rates to ?legally? ride my eBike....and guess what I ride by police frequently and just wave (they don't have time to worry about an uninsured class 3 ebike.
My issue with People for Bikes is that they did not really think thru the regulations they are advocating.
I pulled this from another article on this subject and it's a profound question. We don't limit the speed capability of cars based on the speed limits of the streets. We establish what are thought to be relatively safe speed limits for the different roads used by cars as we can do with bikes. The assist speed limits will fail to hold up over time because there is simply no way to enforce it (it's just too easy to alter a control system to unlock the assist limit and any bike can just add an "off-road" mode that can be utilized as desired. Most bike riders are going to ride at a safe speed determined by the conditions (bike path, density of bike path, pedestrians, weather, etc.) because they do not want to be injured in an accident.
I think the real debate on this subject is the interest in the insurance industry and DMV wanting to generate new revenue from bikes. They are the ones behind the regulatory push to set slow assist speeds to have an eBike classified as a traditional bike. They want to make money on any ebike that has an assist speed higher then 20mph (US assist limit of Class 1 eBikes being adopted by more and more states). I live in Colorado which has adopted the 3 class system and I have a Class 3 eBike that assists past 20mph. When I called several major insurance companies to get quotes on liability coverage only, they quoted me as if I was going to be riding a large motorcycle (they weren't even aware that Colorado had adopted the Class 3 system over 6 months earlier). Needless to say I was not going to pay those rates to ?legally? ride my eBike....and guess what I ride by police frequently and just wave (they don't have time to worry about an uninsured class 3 ebike.
My issue with People for Bikes is that they did not really think thru the regulations they are advocating.
christob
Well-Known Member
My bike is a class 3 throttle-less. Only on substantial down-hills (3 such hills are on a trail I ride) do I find myself sometimes hitting the high 20's mph; 29.2 is the fastest I've ever registered on the speedometer on those hills -- and frankly, although the motor would help propel me to 28mph normally, I find above 25mph starts to get intimidating for my tastes. Unless I was riding on a very empty, well paved, long, mostly straight and flat stretch of very clear road! (There is actually one of those stretches I hit on my evening detour home -- DC's Hanes Point 3 mile loop; but I don't use it for 28mph target practice. Often it is populated in the evenings with racer/trainers easily cruising past me as I chug along the route at my typical 14-18mph rate.) Many trainers can easily go so fast -- I'm always puzzled that 20mph somehow became a meaningful "ebikes become dangerous" limit mark -- while a pedal-only bike above 20mph really isn't given a second thought. For some (ie, many on that Hanes Point loop with me, as well as on the mixed-use paved trails I ride) pedal-power-only can easily exceed 20mph...
As for posted speed limits -- that Hanes Point road (it is a vehicular road, 2 lanes wide, all 1-way the entire loop through a large park, with no cross-streets) -- is posted as I think, 25mph, with a section of 15mph (though cyclists it seems, myself included, don't really adjust their speed at the 15mph zone.) I was on another mixed-use trail recently and I think I noticed it had a posted 15mph sign, trail-side... I was in my normal 14-18mph range, but other cyclists often flew past me. Posting speed limit signage certainly can't hurt, but getting "buy in" from riders to obey it may be a bigger challenge!
JRA
Well-Known Member
The problem with regards to Class III is deeper than the fact that they are prohibited from use on MUP's.
The federal Consumer Product Safety Act defines a "low speed electric bicycle" as a two or three wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals, a top speed when powered solely by the motor under 20 mph (32 km/h) and an electric motor that produces less than 750 W (1.01 hp). The Act authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to protect people who ride low-speed electric vehicles by issuing necessary safety regulations.[57] The rules for e-bikes on public roads, sidewalks, and pathways are under state jurisdiction, and vary.
In conformance with legislation adopted by the U.S. Congress defining this category of electric-power bicycle (15 U.S.C. 2085(b)), CPSC rules stipulate that low speed electric bicycles[58] (to include two- and three-wheel vehicles) are exempt from classification as motor vehicles providing they have fully operable pedals, an electric motor of less than 750W (1 hp), and a top motor-powered speed of less than 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) when operated by a rider weighing 170 pounds.[59] An electric bike remaining within these specifications is subject to the CPSC consumer product regulations for a bicycle. Commercially manufactured e-bikes exceeding these power and speed limits are regulated by the federal DOT and NHTSA as motor vehicles, and must meet additional safety requirements. The legislation enacting this amendment to the CPSC is also known as HR 727.[60] The text of HR 727 includes the statement: "This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements." (Note that this refers to consumer product regulations enacted under the Consumer Product Safety Act. Preemption of more stringent state consumer product regulations does not limit State authority to regulate the use of electric bicycles, or bicycles in general, under state vehicle codes.)
The above in bold clearly designates the Federal regulations regarding eBike legality here and the Class I and II ones clearly meet that. The key factor here is the fact that bikes that meet these requirements are regulated by the CPSC, same as any bicycle motor or not. The problem as I see it with the new Class III laws is how it relates bold to bold. The way I interpret this, and I am no lawyer, is that any state may have different regulations regarding eBikes but they cannot exceed the Federal Regs. As bold states eBikes that are able to exceed 20mph come under the jurisdiction of the DOT and in addition the NHTSA:
3. Requirements to lawfully import motorcycles or motor-driven cycles for on-road use.
If a motorcycle or motor driven cycle is capable of a top speed of 20 mph or greater and is equipped with components (such as lights, mirrors, and turn signals) that are needed for on-road use, NHTSA will regard it as having been primarily manufactured for such purposes. Motorcycles and motor-driven cycles with these capabilities and equipment cannot be lawfully imported into the U.S. unless they were originally manufactured to comply with all applicable FMVSS and bear a label certifying such compliance that is permanently affixed by the original manufacturer. The label must be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle, as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post and the handle bars, so that its contents can be easily read without moving any part of the vehicle except for the steering mechanism. In addition, the vehicle’s manufacturer is required to submit to NHTSA identifying information on itself and the products it manufactures to the FMVSS (as required by 49 CFR Part 566), provide NHTSA with information the agency would need to decipher the VIN the manufacturer is required (under 49 CFR Part 565) to assign to each motor vehicle manufactured for sale in the U.S., and designate a U.S. resident as its agent for service of process (as required under 49 CFR 551.45).
DOT additional safety requirements are elements such as rims/tires that need DOT approval, full lighting package including brake and turn signal indicators, rearview mirror, horn and most specifically a VIN # that allows vehicles in general to be eligible for registration purposes. These requirements have generally been associated with MoPed class vehicles that are also excluded from MUP's and generally are used on public roads anyway.
The bike industry here via their BPSA mouthpiece no doubt has a better grip on the legalities involved here. In the EU the Speed Pedlec regulations https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32013R0168&from=EN put them into the same sort of approval and are lumped in with ICE vehicles as well. That is why you see mirrors, lights and a license plate holder on them there but not generally seen on US spec bikes as they are skirting the DOT/NHTSA regs here.
The federal Consumer Product Safety Act defines a "low speed electric bicycle" as a two or three wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals, a top speed when powered solely by the motor under 20 mph (32 km/h) and an electric motor that produces less than 750 W (1.01 hp). The Act authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to protect people who ride low-speed electric vehicles by issuing necessary safety regulations.[57] The rules for e-bikes on public roads, sidewalks, and pathways are under state jurisdiction, and vary.
In conformance with legislation adopted by the U.S. Congress defining this category of electric-power bicycle (15 U.S.C. 2085(b)), CPSC rules stipulate that low speed electric bicycles[58] (to include two- and three-wheel vehicles) are exempt from classification as motor vehicles providing they have fully operable pedals, an electric motor of less than 750W (1 hp), and a top motor-powered speed of less than 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) when operated by a rider weighing 170 pounds.[59] An electric bike remaining within these specifications is subject to the CPSC consumer product regulations for a bicycle. Commercially manufactured e-bikes exceeding these power and speed limits are regulated by the federal DOT and NHTSA as motor vehicles, and must meet additional safety requirements. The legislation enacting this amendment to the CPSC is also known as HR 727.[60] The text of HR 727 includes the statement: "This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements." (Note that this refers to consumer product regulations enacted under the Consumer Product Safety Act. Preemption of more stringent state consumer product regulations does not limit State authority to regulate the use of electric bicycles, or bicycles in general, under state vehicle codes.)
The above in bold clearly designates the Federal regulations regarding eBike legality here and the Class I and II ones clearly meet that. The key factor here is the fact that bikes that meet these requirements are regulated by the CPSC, same as any bicycle motor or not. The problem as I see it with the new Class III laws is how it relates bold to bold. The way I interpret this, and I am no lawyer, is that any state may have different regulations regarding eBikes but they cannot exceed the Federal Regs. As bold states eBikes that are able to exceed 20mph come under the jurisdiction of the DOT and in addition the NHTSA:
3. Requirements to lawfully import motorcycles or motor-driven cycles for on-road use.
If a motorcycle or motor driven cycle is capable of a top speed of 20 mph or greater and is equipped with components (such as lights, mirrors, and turn signals) that are needed for on-road use, NHTSA will regard it as having been primarily manufactured for such purposes. Motorcycles and motor-driven cycles with these capabilities and equipment cannot be lawfully imported into the U.S. unless they were originally manufactured to comply with all applicable FMVSS and bear a label certifying such compliance that is permanently affixed by the original manufacturer. The label must be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle, as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post and the handle bars, so that its contents can be easily read without moving any part of the vehicle except for the steering mechanism. In addition, the vehicle’s manufacturer is required to submit to NHTSA identifying information on itself and the products it manufactures to the FMVSS (as required by 49 CFR Part 566), provide NHTSA with information the agency would need to decipher the VIN the manufacturer is required (under 49 CFR Part 565) to assign to each motor vehicle manufactured for sale in the U.S., and designate a U.S. resident as its agent for service of process (as required under 49 CFR 551.45).
DOT additional safety requirements are elements such as rims/tires that need DOT approval, full lighting package including brake and turn signal indicators, rearview mirror, horn and most specifically a VIN # that allows vehicles in general to be eligible for registration purposes. These requirements have generally been associated with MoPed class vehicles that are also excluded from MUP's and generally are used on public roads anyway.
The bike industry here via their BPSA mouthpiece no doubt has a better grip on the legalities involved here. In the EU the Speed Pedlec regulations https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32013R0168&from=EN put them into the same sort of approval and are lumped in with ICE vehicles as well. That is why you see mirrors, lights and a license plate holder on them there but not generally seen on US spec bikes as they are skirting the DOT/NHTSA regs here.
christob
Well-Known Member
Further adding confusion / loopholes (or perhaps -- indicating that legislation as written doesn't demonstrate a full grasp of the myriad details & complexities & subtleties of ebike configurations?) -- The non-throttled pedal-assists arguably can't actually achieve any speed defined as motor-powered speed... ie, the bike can only achieve whatever speed it reaches through the continual combination of human pedal + motor assist. Remove the pedal power and there is no motor-powered element to consider or measure. (Well, there is Walk Mode; that is 100% purely motor-powered -- but so far below 20mph as to be irrelevant... and not generally used for personal riding/conveyance.)
And, any reasonable cyclist can achieve or exceed 20mph on their pedal-assist bike, while the motor is inoperable (battery removed / system powered off / Assist set to None, etc)... So much room for confusion in the language...
JRA
Well-Known Member
You can tell the law was written long ago when perhaps the average weight of a US citizen was even close to 170lbs. Given that was their intent and I doubt that anyone that was involved in that language at the time was close to that amount. As you say, lot's of room for confusion.
Alan Acock
Member
6zfshdb
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I travel frequently and ride multi use paths in many different states. Although I try and keep up with the rapidly changing state and local E-bike regulations, it is sometimes legal to ride a trail in the morning only to have it become illegal by afternoon. Some states appear to be easing regulations while others are tightening them. To further complicate the issue, some cities and even a few small towns are passing their own judgement on the use of E-bikes. To make it worse, the E-bike class designation has not been universally adopted in all locations.
Posting MUP signage at this point would be a waste of money due to the turmoil. In each location I ride, I have to decide whether to ignore that rusting old sign that says "No Motor Vehicles". As a precaution, I don't make myself conspicuous, I'm respectful of others on the path (as we all should), and ride an E-bike with a high "stealth factor". Luckily, from what I've observed, most LEO's and park rangers either don't know how to spot an E-bike or choose to ignore them.
I realize the E-bike industry is relatively new and legislators tend to take forever to adjust. I suppose E-bike regulations will eventually become "standardized". At 72, I wonder if I will be around long enough to be able to enjoy this sport without the fear of breaking some law.
Kudos to you folks at People for Bikes!
Posting MUP signage at this point would be a waste of money due to the turmoil. In each location I ride, I have to decide whether to ignore that rusting old sign that says "No Motor Vehicles". As a precaution, I don't make myself conspicuous, I'm respectful of others on the path (as we all should), and ride an E-bike with a high "stealth factor". Luckily, from what I've observed, most LEO's and park rangers either don't know how to spot an E-bike or choose to ignore them.
I realize the E-bike industry is relatively new and legislators tend to take forever to adjust. I suppose E-bike regulations will eventually become "standardized". At 72, I wonder if I will be around long enough to be able to enjoy this sport without the fear of breaking some law.
Kudos to you folks at People for Bikes!
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
Not familiar with Pennsylvania law. In North Carolina, the law specifically says that ebikes are bicycles, not "motorized vehicles," which are defined as having larger motors and faster speeds.
Lucky us.
Lucky us.
Dewey
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Interesting unintended consequence of the PfB 3-class legislation, according to one Utah representative they had to revise the law to come into line with open container alcohol prohibitions on motor vehicles or risk federal highway funding according to an article in the Huffington Post https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-city-state-rules_us_5b87f6abe4b0f023e4a6045a
I have to agree. If you don't understand it, study.
It seems to me that there should be multiple product categories, so it's just a question of what we call them. Here in Japan, assist can only be provided until 24kph, and even then only at certian power ratios if you want it classified as a bike. This makes some sense because bikes are allowed to do things mopeds aren't allowed to do, like ride in the sidewalks in some circumstances, ride the wrong way down a one way street, and they don't require a helmet, mirrors, license, glasses, inspection, or insurance. If I buy a fancy eBike from overseas like that crazy Audi one, I can have it, but it will need to be registered as a motorcycle or moped, depending on the power output. I don't think having pedals makes it better or worse, except that you could still get some exercise out of it at lower speeds.
Hmm my ebike is limited to 24 kph, and that is still quite useful for transportation. I use it almost every day for about 40 minutes each way, and it takes me about the same amount of time it would to ride the subway. Don't get me wrong, I wish it could go faster, but it hardly becomes useless because it has a speed limitation. I can easily get it up to over 30kph the old fashioned way. I don't live in the US, so I don't have a stake in the laws there, but it seems to be that eventually eBikes will be common, and there will have to be a dividing line where low end ones qualify as bicycles while high end ones qualify as motorcycles. These things are still in their infancy, so it will be interesting to see where things are after 10 more years as battery and motor technology evolves.
So the world record holder averaged approximately 30mph/50kph for an hour on a flat track with assist and yet some feel ebike assist should be limited to 25kph. I think when using an ebike for transportation the travel time becomes more important. Having assist to speeds in the 30mph/50kph range doesn't increase the top speed of anyone riding a bike it just increases their average speed. That doesn't mean when someone is riding on a sidewalk with pedestrians that they are going to be going a fast as possible and possibly running people over. I just think the world benefits if more people utilize ebikes as human scale transportation to assist speeds should be allowed to be faster.
tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
Perhaps the cage drivers in Japan are less aggressive and you have far more bike lanes? We have no bike lanes in traffic here. Small city of 27,000. SO, many eBike commuters only feel safe if they can manage to keep up or especially not hinder cage traffic. I agree in principle but suggest an eBike isn't the right solution. SO may 35-40MPH kitted bikes with 15MPH brakes.
We should all keep in mind that just because an ebike may have assist to higher speeds like 28mph or even a bit higher it doesn't mean that the rider will always be traveling at that top speed. There is no reason to believe that speed limits on the bike lanes/paths/sidewalks would not work any less than they do for cars (some of which can now go over 250mph). We need effective human scale transportation a lot more than we need the mamby-pambies telling everyone that anything over 25kph on an ebike is just too dangerous to allow.
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