People for Bikes: Progress on Ebike Laws in the US

[Ken M]

You can tell the law was written long ago when perhaps the average weight of a US citizen was even close to 170lbs. Given that was their intent and I doubt that anyone that was involved in that language at the time was close to that amount. As you say, lot's of room for confusion.

A guy name Dr. Currie drafted the federal definition text. He was keenly aware that the NHTSA didn't want to release anything that would go faster than 20mph so Currie wrote the spec such that "motor alone" could sustain a 170lb rider on level surface at 20mph (elimintates the inefficiencies of the drive system). The actually makes great sense such that that power level (typ. from 300-350W depending on bike design) can continue to be provided past 20mph so long as the extra speed is the result of rider effort.

So on a throttle-assist ebike the full 750W drive system rated power can be provided up to 20mph but at 20mph the motor power must drop down such that "motor alone" only sustains the 20mph.

I think everyone tries to make this definition seem poorly written but anyone with a technical background can see the elegance of it's wording (Currie was assuming that the NHTSA representatives and other law makers would not realizing he was providing for a faster LSEB with rider effort.

 

[Ken M]

I have submitted 4 emails to People for Bikes with questions on their model legislation as it relates to HR727 and possible interstate commerce issues but they simply will not engage or discuss this subject. While I'm no legal expert by any means I would think they would at least be willing to answer some questions on this given it could result in preemption of their work by the CPSC.

 

[E biker]

I am wondering if any one using a ebike ever had a issue on a Indiana or Michigan trail ? I did some reading and the laws were not very clear.

 

[JRA]

Not sure about Indiana but I have heard the Michiganders are a might tetchy about eBikes. They will be assimilated eventually. Just ride with respect to others and the trails you should be ok wherever you go. If there are signs up find somewhere else.

 

[E biker]

I have this feeling that people not being responsible with ebikes,will mess it up for the responsible riders eventually, I have seen it already.

 

[Browneye]

I have this feeling that people not being responsible with ebikes,will mess it up for the responsible riders eventually, I have seen it already.

For sure. They come on this forum asking how to un-limit their C1 ebike. Roadies are one thing, but for casual riders and mountain bikers it's simply ludicrous.

 

[dblhelix]

I am wondering if any one using a ebike ever had a issue on a Indiana or Michigan trail ? I did some reading and the laws were not very clear.

I rode an ebike in MI from Muskegon to Toledo via Grand Rapids, Lansing and Ann Arbor both 2018 and 2019. No issues, including the trail out of Muskegon and the city trails in Lansing. Rode through Indiana 2x this past summer. Not only did I not have problems, a police officer and police volunteer helped me with some on-road repairs near Munster. in both states I also rode many rural roads. I ride a class 3 everyone notices, btw.

 

[Phil Agur]

For sure. They come on this forum asking how to un-limit their C1 ebike. Roadies are one thing, but for casual riders and mountain bikers it's simply ludicrous.

I've given up trying to get anyone to listen to lowering the US Type 1 eBike 20 MPH cutoff to the Euro 25 KPH (15.5 MPH) cutoff. My cutoff is very smooth and riding above it's cutoff is a pleasure, the eBike only adding power when physical forces have slowed.
The rub is all developed multi-use trails in the US and Europe share one design feature, that's a 25 KPH speed limit. So the Euro market type 1 bikes help you stay easily at the max as the terrain changes and the US type 1 waste up to 33% power forcing you to ride faster than allowed. Losses in wind resistance ang grade climbing force slash range and greatly reduce the ride experience.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I've given up trying to get anyone to listen to lowering the US Type 1 eBike 20 MPH cutoff to the Euro 25 KPH (15.5 MPH) cutoff. My cutoff is very smooth and riding above it's cutoff is a pleasure, the eBike only adding power when physical forces have slowed.
The rub is all developed multi-use trails in the US and Europe share one design feature, that's a 25 KPH speed limit. So the Euro market type 1 bikes help you stay easily at the max as the terrain changes and the US type 1 waste up to 33% power forcing you to ride faster than allowed. Losses in wind resistance ang grade climbing force slash range and greatly reduce the ride experience.

I cannot believe in what I'm reading. While 25 km/h limit makes sense for e-MTB, the same Euro limit on road is a disaster. Perhaps you can pedal effortlessly past 25 km/h limiter but I cannot do it. Meanwhile, my traditional riding buddies all move at 30 km/h on road or faster. If I were stuck on the Euro limiter, I would be still riding alone. Yet, I own a 45 km/h Euro L1e-B (and that sets me for roads), and -- sad to admit -- a derestricted 25 km/h lightweight e-bike that lets me join my gravel cycling mates on their group rides. (The low power of the latter technically limits me to 34 km/h in Turbo mode; it is enough).

Where did you get the idea 25 km/h limit was good?!

 

[Phil Agur]

I cannot believe in what I'm reading. While 25 km/h limit makes sense for e-MTB, the same Euro limit on road is a disaster. Perhaps you can pedal effortlessly past 25 km/h limiter but I cannot do it. Meanwhile, my traditional riding buddies all move at 30 km/h on road or faster. If I were stuck on the Euro limiter, I would be still riding alone. Yet, I own a 45 km/h Euro L1e-B (and that sets me for roads), and -- sad to admit -- a derestricted 25 km/h lightweight e-bike that lets me join my gravel cycling mates on their group rides. (The low power of the latter technically limits me to 34 km/h in Turbo mode; it is enough).

Where did you get the idea 25 km/h limit was good?!

I think the US type 3 at 28 miles per hour is great in a roadside bike lane. My gravel bike is a little twichy up at 42. I don't think the goal is create an electric motorcycle, we have plenty of examples available. My last street MC brought the wheel at 0 and didn't let down until 120. My 10 speed bike commute would average 26 MPH in rush hour traffic for 13 miles.

These multi-use trails for horses, pedestrians, and cyclist are a safe haven for all ages of riders when everyone is doing 15 and below. I've had 2 year-olds on push bikes intentionally run into me (stopped then). A hospital work was slumped over walking slowly turn sharply without looking. When I got it stopped my front wheel was in front of his knees.

I don't want older cyclist buying eBikes as motorcycles that forces them into bad situations. The American River Bike Trail has banned all Type 3 eBikes. Some of the best Type 3 using pedalling force sensors only add more force if you add more pressure. They are also low power mid-drives.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't want older cyclist buying eBikes as motorcycles that forces them into bad situations.

Agree.

They are also low power mid-drives.

There are. My 250 W L1b-E is capable of hitting 45 km/h (28 mph) if I really try.

Some of the best Type 3 using pedalling force sensors only add more force if you add more pressure.

Class 3. We expect some people to commute on e-bikes to replace their cars. It is not doable at 25 km/h (15.5 mph) in the U.S., a country with huge distances.

These multi-use trails for horses, pedestrians, and cyclist are a safe haven for all ages of riders when everyone is doing 15 and below.

Yes. A younger traditional cyclist can easily hit 32 km/h or 20 mph with no electric assistance there. And how many MUPs are there in the U.S.?

 

[Ken M]

@bob armani



No is the short answer to your question. HR 727 is a consumer law legalizing ebikes to be sold as bicycles and not motorized vehicles in the US. For the purpose you want (if necessary?), you would want state and local laws. That's what determines if your ebike is legal and that you're allowed to ride where you are riding.

If defined and sold as a bicycle, then an LSEB is a bicycle to be use regulated by the states as a bicycle.

 

[G8TRX6.0]

Hello I am new to this site, just scrolling down the posts I was thinking about this very subject, I started out looking for the ordinances for my area here in seattle as I have been feeling the gap between regular bike riders and the reaction to ebikes. I wanted to be prepared for the eventual argument with one of these people who think they own the bike path and have the right to accost others who ride an ebike and even pedestrians if they are in "their" way. I ride to enjoy the ride I pedal when I feel like it, I ride more for pleasure than exercise and I ride safely, my bike will do 20mph on the straight long stretches which is plenty for a bike, I'm no panzy either, I pushed it plenty when I was younger and still like a speed rush now and then , 20mph is ok but plenty , but starts getting squirrely above that speed, the bike is not flimzy or light so its pretty stable at hi speed. But the reality is over 15-20 is just to fast for bike paths regardless if it is a regular bike or an ebike - Especially when there are pedestrians who rarely pay attention to staying on the right side and usually are wearing earpods and can't hear my bell so I have to slow down anyway to safely get around them and then there are little kids jumping around anyway, I can't really blame them to much as they are just out for a nice walk to, what really gets my goat is the anal spandex wearing psychos who have all there fancy fitness devices cruising as fast as they can go zipping past unaware pedestrians and other bikes constantly checking their pulse and speed thinking that they are the only people allowed on the path. spouting rules and laws when in fact they themselves are the most dangerous people out there, and these are the people whining that ebikes are unsafe. There does need to be some rules pertaining to the use of the bike trails as more people build faster bikes , the bottom line though is people just need to be considerate of others and be responsible while riding, seems simple but I see ta growing crowd out there especially the entitled younger crowd becoming more self centered and selfish and a lot of the " its all the other guys fault" attitude. this is why I will not ride on the road, there are so crazy people out there - why would I risk my life riding anywhere near cars just to make a point that I have the right to do so. It's illegal here to ride on the sidewalk but I do it anyway but I am respectful of pedestrians right of way in doing so , and stay as far from them as i can, its called common sense. I am babbling. but yes I very much agree a speed limit is reasonable , i've seen many near misses from speeders.

Hi !
I live south of you in Bonney Lake and recently purchased a Specialized Turbo Tero X. (Class3)
I ride the Foothills trail (paved) near our home. It's been pretty sedate so far as people on the trail. There's a 10mph speed limit on the trail and most people comply.
I'm just now discovering all the rules that pertain to class3 bikes. I have friends who mountain bike and they are not impressed with e-bikes. I think the best thing that could happen is having the authorities rule that e-bikes are not motorized if they have pedals. My wife has a Rad City 5 SE and it's opens a whole new world for her at 61 years old. I've heard all the "reasons" that e-bikes shouldn't be allowed on any trails at all except streets.
Your point of the "true pedal bikers" actually breaking the rules by speeding and being dangerous to pedestrians is very real.
An elderly lady was killed in Renton by a biker. Not sure if it was an e-bike or a standard bike.
The Renton mayor and city council have implemented 10mph limits on city trails now.
All this is just elitism by certain bikers with no basis in logic about e-bikes. Really sad but not surprising. My class 3 is now a class 1 limited to 20mph. Let's get ebikes brought into the category of normal.

 

[Ken M]

People for Bikes sounds like a fantastic organization that promotes cycling in the USA. It's great to see the efforts in advocating for cycling on a national level and supporting local initiatives.

They should be a 100% bike / ebike advocacy organization but the 3-class legislation they promoted was primarily to harmonize a system with Europe which as intended to ensure ebikes remained a recreation/leisure/fitness product and not the most effective urban mobility solution they could be. If you read and understand HR727 (federal definition of an LSEB) you will understand the issue as it specifically declares that states can not superseded this definition with a more stringent requirement - 3-class legislation should have been preempted by the CPSC but they choose to view LSEBs and eBikes as unique different).

 

[FiremarshallDave]

The parks systems here in Ohio (Stark and Summit Counties that I know of) officially prohibit even electric assist bicycles that look like bicycles. Someone needs to challenge, and get legal clarity on the use of e-bikes nationwide so they have the same status as any bicycle. I'm looking for activist attorneys (any State) willing to assist me on this.

Referemce>>>> http://www.evelo.com/ohio-state-electric-bike-laws/

I wonder if a group of you with a motorcycle licenses started riding in the road with proper equipment (turn signals, horn) at 10 mph and blocked a busy commute if they would start to get it. Ride right next to the bike lane your not allowed to use by their law. Do it every day for a month but don't break any laws just ride at a comfortable speed of 10 mph in groups of 20.