I am researching ebikes and am really liking the rad power bike lineup. I see most of the models weight around 70 lbs. How difficult are they to pedal around with no power, or no electric motor assist? This would be just in case we run out of power. We camp and do not always have access to power. Are they worth riding if they are no longer electric?
Pedaling with no power
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legsofbeer
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Well, riding them unpowered beats walking them home. On my radrover, for me cruising speed unpowered is 8 mph, peak speed 12 mph. I think the speed limitation isn't weight so much as rolling resistance from fat tires, motor resistance, and wind resistance from the upright posture. On a day where I'm planning a long ride on one charge (eg. 50 miles) I might go without power on continuous flat areas for a few miles early in order to accumulate some positive battery margin by the midway point.
If extreme range is a big deal for you, you can always get a second battery, or improvise cheaper smaller supplemental batteries from power tool packs (I think there's a thread here on that).
stanmiller
Active Member
Pedaling on level ground you'll barely notice the extra weight. Hills or a moderate incline is where you'll feel the difference.
Luto
Active Member
I ride my Moustache Dimanche gravel ride (40 pound) most of the time without power. I use about 5% for 15 miles. This should allow me to go 80 miles in and 80 miles out on a single charge. Consider though, some bikes carry around a lot of extra weight and drag, because they are e-bikes. I am optimizing mine like a regular bike to get better performance, with or without assist.
AHicks
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First, a lot of people go into e-bikes asking this question, and they find out after riding one a bit, the fear of running out of power is unfounded. You learn to plan your rides, and find you can get much further on a charge than you think you can. Speaking for myself, a battery charge will last longer than my butt can.....
Second, The Rad City, with it's direct drive hub motor, DOES have a very noticeable drag when un-powered. It's still possible to pedal, but you're going to wish you were home pretty quickly. The others have gear driven hubs with a built in clutch that allows them to free wheel, without drag. With these, you'll feel the weight of the bike, and if the bike has fat tires, the increased rolling resistance due to those.
Second, The Rad City, with it's direct drive hub motor, DOES have a very noticeable drag when un-powered. It's still possible to pedal, but you're going to wish you were home pretty quickly. The others have gear driven hubs with a built in clutch that allows them to free wheel, without drag. With these, you'll feel the weight of the bike, and if the bike has fat tires, the increased rolling resistance due to those.
john peck
Well-Known Member
How well do they pedai??? , Well,... that kinda depends on whether yur going uphill or down.
Your own weight & level of fitness is just as importantas the bike´s weight. If you are young & in good shape, there is fair selection of light bikes with modest wattage motors. Beyond that there are some
urban bikes up to 500w that aren´t terrible. For the most part, I´d get a bike that never needs to be pedaled without power. THat doesn´t mean you
have to go out & buy the most expensive bike. Better & cheaper to learn the ropes & get by newbee mistakes a less costly bike. If you are an
experienced cyclist with some basic mechanical known-how, that should be easy. If not there are loads of online tutorials. Just research
carefully before you purchase.
legsofbeer
Active Member
I think there is still some motor drag. Tried spinning in direction of forward travel radrover's rear wheel vs front wheel, rear wheel slows to a stop noticeably before the front. Repeated comparing rear wheel of radrover with rear wheel of unpowered road bike, even more difference. This is consistent with my observation when riding, where coast to a stop distances are much shorter on the ebike than on the unpowered bike, more than can be explained by fat tires.
AHicks
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Any difference you notice while spinning the wheels by hand is due to difference in bearing drag (MUCH bigger bearings on the back of the bike, plus the freewheel!) and maybe a difference in brake drag. The motors are clutched and will stop turning with the bike in motion/not under power.
Dallant
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Are they worth riding with no power? Totally up to you but I’d just ride my analog bike if I had no power.
What never ceases to amaze me is the folks who will buy a 70 lb ebike when there are very high quality 55 lb ebikes.
phoenixtoohot
Well-Known Member
I ride mostly for exercise and have two e-bikes. My ride1up 500 is a commuter style with 2.25 inch tires at 55 psi. On my 22 mile route, I use no assist about 60% of the time, and level 1 and 2 the rest. I burn about 650 calories this way. On my Ecotric Hammer, 26 x 4 inch tires at 18 psi, on the same route, I use assist levels 2 and 3 about 50/50, and burn about 350 calories. I am happy to have some variety. When I want max exercise, I go with the commuter style ride1up 500. When I want to have a lot of fun, I ride the fat tire bike, heavy, long, but a blast to ride fast on the dirt.
legsofbeer
Active Member
Maybe so, but the difference is very noticeable whether spinning or riding, and it ain't my brakes (thanks for projecting incompetence on me). I ride the same route with the same lights and stop signs on an unpowered road bike and a radrover. Axles are 9mm (front) and 12mm (rear).
AHicks
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All due respect, but insisting there's anything but bearing and brake induced drag on a gear driven hub, you don't need any help. Take one apart to see for yourself if you must.
Many designs use a speed sensor located externally (magnet on spoke) for this very reason. Speedo works fine under power, but goes to -0- as soon as the power is removed - because the motor stops turning.
I suppose there's also a possibility that your internal clutch has gone bad as well. Generally you can feel a locked up clutch pretty easily. There's a "cogging" effect, normally only felt while rolling the bike backwards, that you can feel while rolling it forward as well.
Too, when comparing rolling resistance on a road bike vs. a RAD Rover, I would think the differences in tire size would be quite a factor...
-Al
harryS
Well-Known Member
What can make a bike harder to pedal is heavy tires/tubes. When I bought my 26" fat bike (unpowered) , I took it out and could barely do a 2 mile ride, it was so hard to move. I added 14 pounds for motor/battery, but got rid of 12 pounds. much of it in the steel parts, including 2.4 pounds per wheel with lighter tires/tube. As a result I was able to do that same 2 mile ride with the power off. It's just easier to accelerate a lighter wheel. Nonetheless, fat tire bikes wouldn't be popular w/o motors. Only 100 of my 3000 miles ridden this year was on my fat tire bike. I should get rid of it.The little kids seem to like seeing it.
Rolling resistance is another factor, Getting away from fat tire bikes, my wife and I ride very similar 20" folding bikes and on hills, she will start 20-30 feet behind me and be passing me at the bottom. She's 40 pounds lighter, and sits upright. I lean forward, so think our aero resistance is comparable. I mounted 20x2" Schwalbe Big Apples on her bike, while I have 20x1.75" Kenda Kwests. Schwalbe calls its tire a balloon tire with surprising low rolling resistance. No lie. They roll. I just bought a set for my bike. By the way. little 20' wheels accelerate quick, both due to the gearing effect and the lower rotational mass. My 20" folder is easy to pedal on flat ground. Weight also matters. I consistently burn 30-40% more battery than my wife on the same ride, measured via wattmeter, so it's somewhat scientific.
If you ever tried to turn a geared hub motor axle with your fingers, you will feel quite a lot of resistance. But with a wheel/tire and mounted in a frame, it seems to spin easily, but not as freely or as long as the unpowered wheel, There's some drag, I also own a Bafang BBS02 middrive. I took off the chain and saw that the pedals would spin for about 10 seconds. No drag, but on a regular BB, the pedals will spin for over a minute. It's all little stuff. Adds up.
Rolling resistance is another factor, Getting away from fat tire bikes, my wife and I ride very similar 20" folding bikes and on hills, she will start 20-30 feet behind me and be passing me at the bottom. She's 40 pounds lighter, and sits upright. I lean forward, so think our aero resistance is comparable. I mounted 20x2" Schwalbe Big Apples on her bike, while I have 20x1.75" Kenda Kwests. Schwalbe calls its tire a balloon tire with surprising low rolling resistance. No lie. They roll. I just bought a set for my bike. By the way. little 20' wheels accelerate quick, both due to the gearing effect and the lower rotational mass. My 20" folder is easy to pedal on flat ground. Weight also matters. I consistently burn 30-40% more battery than my wife on the same ride, measured via wattmeter, so it's somewhat scientific.
If you ever tried to turn a geared hub motor axle with your fingers, you will feel quite a lot of resistance. But with a wheel/tire and mounted in a frame, it seems to spin easily, but not as freely or as long as the unpowered wheel, There's some drag, I also own a Bafang BBS02 middrive. I took off the chain and saw that the pedals would spin for about 10 seconds. No drag, but on a regular BB, the pedals will spin for over a minute. It's all little stuff. Adds up.
john peck
Well-Known Member
In the event that I should need to pedal without power,(unlikely), my bike has a very low gear ratio for climbing being an E-mtn bike.
The display has a bar showing how much power is being used. When I find that sweet spot for ratio & speed the bike is often using
no power at all other than pedal input. It´s a 60 pound bike, but once you get it rolling the inertia carries it along pretty well.
I have fairly light, gas powered bike, 47#, that has a gear as low as .7 to one. It pedals quite well on the lower two chainrings even on
a fair grade.That´s not very fast, but I don´t knock myself out keeping it moving. It´s legal by federal standards, but sometimes it´s wise to
travel in stealth mode with a waterproof cover over the engine, Spank me for burning fuel, but it gets 200+ mpg & the range greatly exceeds
that of electrics. 4 years I´ve tried to build a practical e-tourer,, but that entails a trailer with solar panels & heavy batteries. Some day there
will be an ebike that charges in 5 minutes & has a 200 mi. range, but I´m old & can´t wait.
The display has a bar showing how much power is being used. When I find that sweet spot for ratio & speed the bike is often using
no power at all other than pedal input. It´s a 60 pound bike, but once you get it rolling the inertia carries it along pretty well.
I have fairly light, gas powered bike, 47#, that has a gear as low as .7 to one. It pedals quite well on the lower two chainrings even on
a fair grade.That´s not very fast, but I don´t knock myself out keeping it moving. It´s legal by federal standards, but sometimes it´s wise to
travel in stealth mode with a waterproof cover over the engine, Spank me for burning fuel, but it gets 200+ mpg & the range greatly exceeds
that of electrics. 4 years I´ve tried to build a practical e-tourer,, but that entails a trailer with solar panels & heavy batteries. Some day there
will be an ebike that charges in 5 minutes & has a 200 mi. range, but I´m old & can´t wait.
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The weight of an adult rider is a larger factor than anything else with power and without power. We have two Radcity (65 psi, 2.3 inch tires) and sometimes ride on flat ground with no power for laughs. My wife is probably 100 lbs lighter than me and I have stronger legs, she leaves me behind in PAS 0. In PAS 1, I can pass her without exerting much extra effort only because she rides in too high of a gear where I choose one for best efficiency. On really steep hills she zooms up in PAS 3 or 4 and I have to push the bike unless I want to pedal standing up and risk damaging the motor or my 60 yr old body. I have tested the bike with zero power on a slight incline and it requires the lowest gear and hard pedaling. If I was dealing with a dead bike I would only ride it on flat or downhill. Riders over 190 lbs require much more power.
Dallant I'm not sure there are many sub $1600 55 lb ebikes. Any nice under 60lb mid drive is over $2k. I agree, when I got my first radrover ?2015 I could not believe anyone would put of with that beast, and it was "only" 63 lbs. It is amazing to me too how there are so few complaints on this forum by people lifting these Rads onto bike racks.
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