Pedal assist on XP Lite working correctly?

[Slorider]

I just got my Lectric XP Lite yesterday. I love the bike but I’m trying to figure out if the pedal assist is working correctly. My only other E-bike is a RadCity 5, and it does something totally different with pedal assist.

On my Lectric the pedal assist level acts as a speed limiter just as how you would hit the 20 MPH limit and it cuts off. It’s not varying the amount of pedal assist. I can be on PA 2 or 3, and I get full power up to the set speed but then it cuts off. Each PA level has a higher set speed but doesn't vary the amount of assist. I’ve verified this by going to the current part of the screen and it shows 16 A which I think is around 800 W even at PA 2.

I turned down the “P12 PAS Strength” setting from 3 to 1 and it seems to engage a bit less abruptly but still sends full power even on PA 2.

On my Rad if I’m on PA 3 for example that gives me around 300 W. It will give me those 300 W of power from a start all the way up to 20 MPH. It doesn’t matter if I go up a hill, on flat ground, or downhill. Of course when it hits 20 MPH (The limiter) it cuts out.


My main questions are

1. Is this behavior normal for Lectric bikes or is something wrong with mine?

2. If it is normal is there a way to change it so the pedal assist setting changes the amount of pedal assist (Power) rather than just full pedal assist but cutting off at a certain speed?

 

[Johny Rocket]

Both the Lectric & Rad uses a cadence sensor to determine how much power to apply. The difference is that the Rad has gears so not only does the motor respond to the PAS level but also tries to keep up with the factory set cadence determined by the gear you shift into. So top speed on the Rad is effected by both PAS level and the gear selected. The Lectric Lite is single speed making it more obvious that the PAS level directly effects the max MPH for each PAS level. If you never change gears in the RAD then you might feel it both bikes work the same.
Having said that it's also my suspicion that Lectric uses a cheaper square wave controller vs a slightly better sine wave controller on the RAD that may exasperate the difference between the two.

 

[Johny Rocket]

By the way, if the RAD has a sine wave controller it will also have a quieter motor when compared to Lectric if it has a square wave and will give the Lectric a noticable buzzing sound when comparing the two.

 

[Slorider]

Both the Lectric & Rad uses a cadence sensor to determine how much power to apply. The difference is that the Rad has gears so not only does the motor respond to the PAS level but also tries to keep up with the factory set cadence determined by the gear you shift into. So top speed on the Rad is effected by both PAS level and the gear selected. The Lectric Lite is single speed making it more obvious that the PAS level directly effects the max MPH for each PAS level. If you never change gears in the RAD then you might feel it both bikes work the same.
Having said that it's also my suspicion that Lectric uses a cheaper square wave controller vs a slightly better sine wave controller on the RAD that may exasperate the difference between the two.

I know the Rad has gears but this isn't it. I'm talking about the current going to the motor. On lower pedal assist levels the Rad never gives full power to the motor. The power output is directly based on the PA level. The amount of power is consistent while I'm pedaling all the way up to the top speed. Also the Rad doesn't have a sensor to know what gear I'm in. I know some mid drives have this but my Rad is hub drive. My Lectric is sending 800 watts at PA 2 and then just cutting off power at maybe 11 MPH? (I could be wrong about the speed). The Lectric shows amps instead of watts like the Rad but you can just multiply by the voltage.

I mean maybe this is just a way they cut costs with the controller by instead of making the PA levels change power they just cut power at a certain speed?

 

[Slorider]

The Lectric Lite is single speed making it more obvious that the PAS level directly effects the max MPH for each PAS level. If you never change gears in the RAD then you might feel it both bikes work the same.

I just saw this part. No this is not how my Rad works. There is no max for each PA level. Maybe this is normal for Lectric then?

 

[Slorider]

I found out that this is similar on other brands as well. I hope no one takes my post as bashing Lectric because I really do like my XP Lite. I was just curious because I've did lots of research and I didn't have a clue about this. I was worried maybe something malfunctioned. it's just going to take me learning how to ride it. This is not something that would make me consider returning it!

I emailed Lectric customer support asking them if this was something that could be changed in the settings. I suspect not because most of the big E-bike makers lock out advanced settings. It still never hurts to ask.

 

[Johny Rocket]

I get what you're saying now. The XP 1.0 only behaves that way when you get to the max MPH (20mph class II, 28 class III) then the motor shuts off till the speed drops below max. I will say that I pretty much use the PAS levels to maintain a particular speed anyway but I think it actually shutting off every few seconds on every PAS level would somewhat bug me.

 

[Slorider]

I get what you're saying now. The XP 1.0 only behaves that way when you get to the max MPH (20mph class II, 28 class III) then the motor shuts off till the speed drops below max. I will say that I pretty much use the PAS levels to maintain a particular speed anyway but I think it actually shutting off every few seconds on every PAS level would somewhat bug me.

It's just kind of abrupt to have it kick in full power then kick off. I'll get used to it but it seems a bit abusive to the poor motor that is getting turned on and off but I guess Lectric knows what they're doing. I emailed them so maybe there's at least a way to tone the max power down a little. On my RadCity I rarely go over 500 watts (PA 4) so on this little thing 500 watts would be plenty for me. This thing was showing 16 amps and even at 50 volts that's 800 watts. It pushes that little bike pretty hard. I couldn't imagine those people who ride 1500 and 2000 watt bikes

 

[Johny Rocket]

And... You're right on the whole gear thing. I've been mostly riding my mid-drive bike lately and totally got confused between the two. Changing gears on a hub drive just changes how fast you're pedaling, not how fast the bike is going. Mid-drive motors increase bike speed changing gears but with little change in pedaling speed. I shouldn't respond to these before my nap lol.

 

[Slorider]

And... You're right on the whole gear thing. I've been mostly riding my mid-drive bike lately and totally got confused between the two. Changing gears on a hub drive just changes how fast you're pedaling, not how fast the bike is going. Mid-drive motors increase bike speed changing gears but with little change in pedaling speed. I shouldn't respond to these before my nap lol.

One day I'm going to get a mid drive... I hear starting price is about $3500 for one that's decent

 

[Johny Rocket]

Was super easy to install a bafang BBS on the bottom bracket. I ordered a connector for the Lectric battery and use it in a bag strapped to my rear rack. All connectors are color coded, the controller & cadence sensor is built in to the motor so just mount the motor, battery then display has the throttle and controls mounted to the handlebar. Motor kit $450, used hybrid bike $120 and it's lighter, faster and goes further than all the $3500 bikes so far. Check out some YouTube videos on how to install and with some ability using tools it's very doable.

 

[Johny Rocket]

Lectric XP Battery 5 Pin Discharge Connection Board

5.0US $ |Female Male Side's Discharge Plate For Dch-006 Battery Of Lo26 20lvxd30 Lectric Xp Mate Battery 5 Pin Discharge Connection Board - Electric Bicycle Accessories - AliExpress

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This was the hardest part to find that let me connect the XP battery to the BBS. The lite battery may use a different discharge connection though

 

[Slorider]

I got a reply to my detailed email explaining my questions about the pedal assist and if it was supposed to work that way.

He didn’t even acknowledge my questions but sent me a generic copy/ paste email listing how to get into the settings menu and what each setting does. The funny thing is it the copy/ paste wasn’t even for the XP Lite…. Definitely a -1 for customer service with this issue.

 

[Redwood]

I just got my Lectric XP Lite yesterday. I love the bike but I’m trying to figure out if the pedal assist is working correctly. My only other E-bike is a RadCity 5, and it does something totally different with pedal assist.

On my Lectric the pedal assist level acts as a speed limiter just as how you would hit the 20 MPH limit and it cuts off. It’s not varying the amount of pedal assist. I can be on PA 2 or 3, and I get full power up to the set speed but then it cuts off. Each PA level has a higher set speed but doesn't vary the amount of assist. I’ve verified this by going to the current part of the screen and it shows 16 A which I think is around 800 W even at PA 2.

I turned down the “P12 PAS Strength” setting from 3 to 1 and it seems to engage a bit less abruptly but still sends full power even on PA 2.

On my Rad if I’m on PA 3 for example that gives me around 300 W. It will give me those 300 W of power from a start all the way up to 20 MPH. It doesn’t matter if I go up a hill, on flat ground, or downhill. Of course when it hits 20 MPH (The limiter) it cuts out.


My main questions are

1. Is this behavior normal for Lectric bikes or is something wrong with mine?

2. If it is normal is there a way to change it so the pedal assist setting changes the amount of pedal assist (Power) rather than just full pedal assist but cutting off at a certain speed?

I have the XP2.0 which has class 3 capabilities which allows for speeds in excess of 20mph. I think the lite does not have this, which, if true, is probably due to the lack of gears, or a smaller motor. If the display doesn’t provide both a 34 and 100 option (screen 8?) then the lite is class 2 only I assume. More knowledgeable people can weigh in on the top speed issue. Personally I’m not comfortable going much over 20mph and you can only attaIn that speed using peddle assist and even in 7th gear your peddling like a son of a b**** to go over 20mph. I’m more comfortable riding my motorcycle at 70mph than I am going over 20mph on my XP2.0. But then again, I’m 76.

 

[tbhausen]

I have the XP2.0 which has class 3 capabilities which allows for speeds in excess of 20mph. I think the lite does not have this, which, if true, is probably due to the lack of gears, or a smaller motor. If the display doesn’t provide both a 34 and 100 option (screen 8?) then the lite is class 2 only I assume. More knowledgeable people can weigh in on the top speed issue. Personally I’m not comfortable going much over 20mph and you can only attaIn that speed using peddle assist and even in 7th gear your peddling like a son of a b**** to go over 20mph. I’m more comfortable riding my motorcycle at 70mph than I am going over 20mph on my XP2.0. But then again, I’m 76.

XP Lite is locked to Class 2 only.

 

[Slorider]

I have the XP2.0 which has class 3 capabilities which allows for speeds in excess of 20mph. I think the lite does not have this, which, if true, is probably due to the lack of gears, or a smaller motor. If the display doesn’t provide both a 34 and 100 option (screen 8?) then the lite is class 2 only I assume. More knowledgeable people can weigh in on the top speed issue. Personally I’m not comfortable going much over 20mph and you can only attaIn that speed using peddle assist and even in 7th gear your peddling like a son of a b**** to go over 20mph. I’m more comfortable riding my motorcycle at 70mph than I am going over 20mph on my XP2.0. But then again, I’m 76.

I don't want to go over 20 MPH but yes the Lite is locked as Class 2. I suspect the motor can't handle higher speeds for an extended time. My issue was with the on off nature of the pedal assist. Think of it like your motorcycle only had two positions on throttle. You'd go wide open throttle to 70 MPH then the engine would go to idle. That's what my Lectric does but not quite 70 MPH thankfully LOL Pedal assist 5 is like 19 MPH and each is a little bit lower.

 

[myers830]

I have the XP2.0 which has class 3 capabilities which allows for speeds in excess of 20mph. I think the lite does not have this, which, if true, is probably due to the lack of gears, or a smaller motor. If the display doesn’t provide both a 34 and 100 option (screen 8?) then the lite is class 2 only I assume. More knowledgeable people can weigh in on the top speed issue. Personally I’m not comfortable going much over 20mph and you can only attaIn that speed using peddle assist and even in 7th gear your peddling like a son of a b**** to go over 20mph. I’m more comfortable riding my motorcycle at 70mph than I am going over 20mph on my XP2.0. But then again, I’m 76.

I agree that the whole "class 3" infatuation with going 28-30 mph is way over hyped and frankly its not safe and not that enjoyable. I rarely ever went over 20. In Europe class 3 eBikes don't exist and they sell a hell of a lot more of them than in the USA. In some European cities, over 80% of people ride bikes just about everywhere (but then again $10 gas has a way of doing that). There are fantastic eBike that are not class 3 capable, and yes, they sell VERY well (Walmart is a perfect example as their eBike sales are through the roof from about $600-800, and very dependable...aka KevCentral).

 

[tbhausen]

I love my XP Lite, but after riding it more in city traffic I can’t agree fully with this assertion. There’s a huge difference between 28 mph and 20 mph in city traffic. 28 mph feels much safer in terms of cars not always wanting to squeeze around at the wrong times and places. To me, 20 mph just feels S L O W.

 

[myers830]

I love my XP Lite, but after riding it more in city traffic I can’t agree fully with this assertion. There’s a huge difference between 28 mph and 20 mph in city traffic. 28 mph feels much safer in terms of cars not always wanting to squeeze around at the wrong times and places. To me, 20 mph just feels S L O W.

An entire world outside of the USA is doing just fine running eBikes at class 2 speeds. In fact MOST cities outside the USA (and in some larger USA cities) have dedicated bike lanes where cars are restricted. I don't feel the class 3 thing is a reason to not buy a class 2 eBike. In fact I ride my class 3 eBike with class 2 bikes all the time. I can count on one hand the times that I thought I was at an advantage... and in at least 2 cases, I almost wiped out trying to push the limit of my bike because I could.

 

[Slorider]

An entire world outside of the USA is doing just fine running eBikes at class 2 speeds. In fact MOST cities outside the USA (and in some larger USA cities) have dedicated bike lanes where cars are restricted. I don't feel the class 3 thing is a reason to not buy a class 2 eBike. In fact I ride my class 3 eBike with class 2 bikes all the time. I can count on one hand the times that I thought I was at an advantage... and in at least 2 cases, I almost wiped out trying to push the limit of my bike because I could.

There’s an entire world outside of the USA doing just fine with class 0, AKA no pedal assist. I think it’s more of what people get used to. If you’re used to going 50 MPH then 30 is going to seem slow