PAS not working - This is not the common fault

[18650]

Hi all
I'm new (and desperate and gutted) to this FORUM and was hoping someone somewhere might be able to help.

I have a Swifty ebike whose controller is'nt working, I mean its "dead". Nothing works.
I have since tried three other different controllers on the bike and they all do the same thing which is, the throttle and cruise control both work and connecting up the intelligent learning leads work, however, the PAS does'nt (on any of them).
What I get is the PAS LED comes on/off as I turn the peddles and I get a 5V pulse out of it (going into the controller), but it does'nt drive the motor. I'm now stumped. Hope someone can help and ANY suggestions will be much appreciated.

 

[AHicks]

What can you tell us about the controller(s) you are using?

 

[18650]

Hi, Ahicks thanks for the reply. One of the controllers has been returned so that's a bit akward. The other is what I have now. It's a Chinese Brainpower 24v 250w brushless controller. Here is a picture of it. If you have any suggestions whatsoever it would be really appreciated.

 

[AHicks]

So you're going from "nothing works" to throttle and cruise work, but there's no PAS?

Did the new controller come with some sort of wire identification/wiring diagram? Is there a display of some sort? Is that working?

Any hint of what PAS level the controller is in? Could PAS be turned off? Are you SURE the wires too/from the PAS sensor are hooked up in the right order?

Just tossing ideas here.

 

[18650]

Hi, yes it came with a wiring diagram, I've attached it.
I checked the PAS output and that is working fine going between 0v and 4.5v. I have checked the three wires for the correct connections, black/-v, red/+v and blue signal. I also tried ( maybe stupidly) to connected the PAS signal and -v together to see if the wheel would turn, no luck there.
I have however wired in the throttle. That said, the bike didn't come with a throttle, but would that matter if the controller has an option for a throttle?

 

[AHicks]

Throttle seems fine. Still, have you tried disconnection the throttle to see if the PAS starts working?

 

[18650]

Actually no, I should have tried that. Ok as soon as I get back home I'll do that. I'll post my findings here. Really appreciate the suggestions though.

 

[harryS]

My belief is that most cadence controllers don't look at pedal speed. they just want to know that the pedals are spinning. After a bike starts in pedal assist, you can ghost pedal at a ridiculous low speed, and it still runs,
.
However, they must still set some window on pulses/second. max and min, to get the bike started. With KT displays/controllers, there's a C1 setting to allow for fewer/greater magnets on a disk. You wouldn't think this would matter unless there is a start window. I just had this situation putting a KT controller on a Huffy ebike, and it wouldn't respond to the Huffy PAS unit. Someone told me he got it working by changing the C1 parameter, but since I had another PAS sensor, I went that route,
.
So I would try another PAS sensor.

 

[18650]

Well, good suggestion of yours , thanks but unfortunately, there's no change, the PAS still isn't working. While doing this I doubled checked the brakes weren't on too.

So, I've ordered another sensor just to rule this one out, but I know this one I have is 99% ok but I'll try this just because I don't know what more to do.

It's so baffling as I honestly thought the controllers are plug and play devices, well sort of.

 

[18650]

Thanks Harrys. I've have ordered one, I'll post here what happens. But is my thinking correct, these controller units IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, are generally interchangeable, my understanding is the principal is the same for all controllers as long as you're comparing like with like ie a controller which produces a sinewave to drive the motor, and it's say a 24v 250w spec. You just have to make sure you connect the right wires to the right places . Is this right?.
Thing is I'm beginning to think maybe I can't use an off the shelf controller, I need to buy a £100 one from the manufacturer

 

[AHicks]

Thanks Harrys. I've have ordered one, I'll post here what happens. But is my thinking correct, these controller units IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, are generally interchangeable, my understanding is the principal is the same for all controllers as long as you're comparing like with like ie a controller which produces a sinewave to drive the motor, and it's say a 24v 250w spec. You just have to make sure you connect the right wires to the right places . Is this right?.
Thing is I'm beginning to think maybe I can't use an off the shelf controller, I need to buy a £100 one from the manufacturer

You have to think of a controller AND it's display as a matched set in my experience. You can't mix and match among different manf's.

The KT controller w/displays are reasonably priced, work really well, and have good support among a wide user base. They're the plan if replacing a geared hub controller/display. If you go with something else, I can almost guarantee a LOT of messing around trying to get it to work - just like you've run into here.

 

[18650]

Hi and thanks for the reply.
Sorry if I didn't make it clear. I decided to buy a controller without a display to help keep costs down as I wasn't sure I'd get this to work been my first attempt.
You might be right though as I have no experience in ebikes. Humm, but I do have a gut feeling it should work. My last chance is the new pas sensor which should be here in the next day or so. But it's been a really interesting little project. I'm still open and grateful for any suggestions if anyone has any but I'll add to this once I have the sensor installed. And my apologies as I'm not sure what KT is, I'll Google it, good old Google. Thanks for your advice guys it's appreciated

 

[tomjasz]

KT Kunteng
Many controllers NEED a display and display settings!!

 

[18650]

Really?
Thanks tomjasz, maybe I ought to relook at this. Funny but the bike did come with a display ( attached) , well, you could turn on the bike with it, see the battery levels and set power output but I thought keeping that out would make life easier. I have also changed the controller and not sure this one has leads to use it.
Maybe that's where I'm going wrong.
Maybe that power output control of the meter needs to be part of the whole circuit albeit the throttle worked.
Well, at least there is something else to try. Thanks for the heads up on this, back to the drawingboard

 

[AHicks]

Regarding keeping the costs down, thought I would show you this. All of this stuff compatible, will all plug and play. I've done business with this vendor several times, they've been around for quite a while, and they have a pretty solid reputation-

KT Controller - 17.22

24V/36V 250W 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave ebike Electric Bicycle Hub Motor Controller with right output

24V/36V 250W 15A Brushless DC Sine Wave ebike Electric Bicycle Hub Motor Controller with right output

www.pswpower.com

One of the better more popular KT displays (LCD-3) -26.50

KT- LCD3 kt lcd3 ebike 24V 36V 48V intelligent black Control Panel LCD Display Electric Bicycle bike Parts for KT controller

KT- LCD3 kt lcd3 ebike 24V 36V 48V intelligent black Control Panel LCD Display Electric Bicycle bike Parts for KT controller

www.pswpower.com

One of the better PAS sensors available, by KT - 3.77

Plug PAS Pedal Assist Sensor KT-V6 KT-V12L 6 Magnets Dual hall sensors 12 Signals

Plug PAS Pedal Assist Sensor KT-V6 KT-V12L 6 Magnets Dual hall sensors 12 Signals

www.pswpower.com

Throttle - 3.38

high quality Wuxing LEFT 108X e-bike finger throttle both-way thumb gas handle

high quality Wuxing LEFT 108X e-bike finger throttle both-way thumb gas handle

www.pswpower.com

Total 50.87
Add for freight, betting less than 40.00

That's for a top drawer system with good support. What's your time worth?

 

[18650]

Hey, thanks for this parts list as there's a good chance it will come in handy, really appreciate it. Plus a place like this which might be able to advise when you're new to this stuff ( plus guys on the forum) are invaluable. So thanks for taking time out to do this and the other guys for their input. But I'm gonna stick this new sensor on and expect the worse but hope for the best and if it still won't work, I'll move to plan "b" which is now the above. Might be a lifeline after all. Thanks for your help and advice

 

[18650]

Hi all, I've just got one last thought after trying to get it working again this morning. It's what you said about the parts being like a plug and play collection which would be brilliant.
My question is could it be the controllers I have tried are somehow not matched to the PAS?
Is it possible there could be some incompatibility. For example I've read there are PAS discs with 8/12 magnets and some have more (mine has 12) Does the PAS sensors have to match the controller and disc and visa versa... ??

 

[AHicks]

Any PAS sensor should work as long as it's wired properly. That's the gotcha. Colors of the wires don't matter. It's the wire FUNCTIONS that must match on both sides of the connection (positive to positive, negative to negative, sensor to sensor). Magnet count irrelevant as far as function.

 

[18650]

I wasn't sure but thanks for clarifying that, you have been a great help.

 

[harryS]

I just noticed your controller picture. OK, it's a controller w/o a display. You have the throttle plugged into the red-white-black wire connector labeled "Steerer Speed Handle". The PAS went to the red-blue-black connector labeled "Assist Sensor".
.
That means you only have one PAS level. That would bother me,.
.
I've never seen a PAS with a LED to show it's flashing. Does it have a separate magnet disk? Did you take it off and put it back with the same orientation? I suspect the LED is going to flash whether you have it right or wrong, but if you have the magnets backward, the controller won't recognize the pulses as valid. I nade this mistake very early in my DIY ebiking.