Over 50's 2017 XDuro Trekking 4.0 Chronicles

[Over50]

High torque is pretty cool!

I made my 1st commute on the Haibike and the 'torque strategy' worked pretty well. On the 28mph R&M, I commute mostly in Eco and Tour modes focusing on battery range. My strategy is to 'make my time' on the 1/3rd of the commute where I have some open stretches and bike lanes and can ride 20-23 mph. The other 2/3rds is start/stop in residential neighborhoods and downtown areas where I usually get up to 15-16 mph between stops. My strategy for the 20mph Haibike was to reverse things: ride in Sport mode for the extra torque and get the acceleration to 19 mph quickly between stops and cruise at 18-19 mph on the open stretches. It is only 1 commute so I really need an average of several commutes to draw conclusions but with no wind on the 16 mile trip to work and 7-10 mph headwind on the 17 mile return trip I achieved the following:

• 33.4 miles total distance; 16.7 avg speed; 24.9 max speed (down side of a freeway overpass); 2 hours total commute

In July, I commuted 9 times on the R&M Charger and achieved the approximate 9 ride averages of :

• 34.2 miles avg distance; 16.0 avg speed; 2 hours 8 minutes avg time; 25.5 max speed

So just drawing conclusions from a single commute I give up very little with a 20 mph bike vs the 28 mph bike. A few other observations:

• Range with the CX and lower top speeds is excellent - I might have had enough battery to do the entire commute in Sport mode but I did charge the usual one hour at work with the slow charger - I had an estimated 17 miles of range in Sport mode remaining and 3 bars upon return. For sure if I did some of the commute in Tour the battery would have plenty of range to cover the 33-35 miles
• A big drawback of the 20mph cutoff and cruising at 19 is not having a reserve to make green lights. With the Charger if I'm at 20-23 mph I know I can hit Turbo and get the bike up to 26 mph or so in order to get out of sticky situations. But not the case with the Haibike - on a flat I can't achieve much more than 20 mph
• The 48cm frame seems a bit small to me but I achieved each half of the commute with no discomfort. No wrist pain, no neck strain etc. It is similar with the R&M - once in awhile I get some hand numbness towards the end of the commute but very minor. both bikes seem very comfortable
• The Haibike having the shorter wheelbase and perhaps because of narrower rims is really agile which is a plus in the downtown areas. I have a lot of confidence if I have to hit narrow gaps, take tight turns or zip up a sidewalk etc.

Over the summer, both in the suburb portions of my commute and the Detroit portions, many roads have been resurfaced and bike lanes have been added to some. I still have some pretty bad roads but overall the conditions are 100% better vs my first commute last Feb. The new pavement is really helping my commute times as well as my butt and my sense of safety.

Interesting today that a suburban police officer pulled in behind me on a residential boulevard and followed me for a couple of blocks. I thought he was going to pull me over because he had plenty of road to pass but instead pulled over and just tailed me. I was riding about 19 mph and had not broken any laws. But after a couple of blocks of driving behind me, he pulled out and passed me. It was odd. Perhaps he wanted to gauge whether I was riding something illegal (?).

 

[Jan1of1]

Yes, I eliminated from my decision making since most of the opinions I received (and examples I found in the forums) were between the 48 XS and the 52 S. I think I found an example or two of riders on the M 56 but they were folks all at 6 feet or over. One seller of the 2017 4.0 refers to its "redesigned geometry" so I hope it isn't so much so that it is invalidating the opinions I received which might be based on other and earlier Trekking models.

How about an update on your decision?

 

[Over50]

How about an update on your decision?

So far no regrets. I think the 48 might be a little small but it is working for me. I'm not having any discomfort riding and I complete the 33-35 mile commute with no issues. I say it might be a little small because I have the seat set back about as far as it can go and I am fairly upright in riding position. I still have the option in the future to try a longer stem but the current configuration is working out. I will never know for sure unless at some point I get a chance to try the next larger size.

The 20mph (really 19.5) cutoff is kind of a bummer especially given that the acceleration to the cutoff point is so robust. But, I've adjusted my commute style to maximize the torque advantage. Now that I have about 5 commutes with the Haibike, my average commute times are almost exactly the same as with the R&M.

I'm not sure if anyone would have an answer for this: Haibike put mounting bolts on the upper portion of the rear triangle (2 - 1 on each side) just behind the seatpost. Would these be for mounting a different rack? I can't figure what else might be mounted on them other than a rack. But the rack the bike comes with does not use these mounting points. One is visible in the picture attached in the upper left part of the frame:

 

[Over50]

I'll finish August with 9 commutes. 4 by Riese and Muller (28 mph bike) and 5 by Haibike (20 mph bike). The stats turned out really similar despite the 20mph cutoff on the Haibike:
R&M: avg distance 33.4 miles; avg time 2 hrs 3 minutes; avg speed 16.3 mph; top speed 25.5
Haibike: avg distance 34.6 miles; avg time 2 hrs 6 minutes; avg speed 16.5 mph; top speed 26.5

The tradeoffs: Haibike great acceleration in the start/stop sections of the commute and nice sporty handling for sidewalk diversions and avoiding pot holes etc riding mostly in Sport. R&M effortless cruising between 20mph and 23mph on the straight-aways and very comfortable bike riding mostly in Tour. Haibike I always have to carry a backpack with a small velcro trunk bag (Axiom and Arkel working great) which means more sweating. Riese and Muller I have pannier options as well as trunk bag and backpack option. Haibike I've done a light chain cleaning and lube plus general bike cleaning. R&M just general bike wipe down (no chain to clean).

Total August miles on both combined about 427 (includes weekend casual riding and weekday commuting).

 

[DOM1NO]

Hi Over50, I've really enjoyed reading this thread and it has helped me to make the decision to buy a Trekking 4.0 - will hopefully be ordering one once Hurricane Irma blows through. I will be using the bike much like you do, I have a 10 mile one-way commute to work, mostly flat, only climb is to cross a causeway. I was originally thinking I HAD TO have a 28mph bike until I saw your commuting video, and your figures on commute times between your two bikes.

The 4.0 really hits all my wants except for the CX motor, but now I think I can live with that.

I'm 5'10", 165lbs with a 31" inseam so am thinking I'm going to get the small size (52cm).

Just wondering if you had any advice for me, or if you wanted to add anything else about this bike and your experiences with it so far?

Thanks again for the info you've already provided.

 

[Over50]

Hi Over50, I've really enjoyed reading this thread and it has helped me to make the decision to buy a Trekking 4.0 - will hopefully be ordering one once Hurricane Irma blows through. I will be using the bike much like you do, I have a 10 mile one-way commute to work, mostly flat, only climb is to cross a causeway. I was originally thinking I HAD TO have a 28mph bike until I saw your commuting video, and your figures on commute times between your two bikes.

The 4.0 really hits all my wants except for the CX motor, but now I think I can live with that.

I'm 5'10", 165lbs with a 31" inseam so am thinking I'm going to get the small size (52cm).

Just wondering if you had any advice for me, or if you wanted to add anything else about this bike and your experiences with it so far?

Thanks again for the info you've already provided.

Yikes. Hurricane Irma. That's a scary storm. I hope you get through that in good form. Do you have any dealers locally? I think the 52 might be a good choice but obviously its best to try before you buy (wasn't really possible for me). The 48 is working out for me but I think it might be a tad small and I am a bit shorter than you. I'd hate to hear you decided based on my experience but then find the bike doesn't fit after you've already ordered and taken delivery. I wish I had a chance to try the 52 just to know for sure that 48 is small (or not).

I think with the CX motor it is a matter of trade-offs. I like that it is smaller than the 28 mph motor and most manufacturers have blended it really well by tilting it upwards. And then of course the semi-integrated battery is more appealing vs one that is not integrated. Many of the bikes with the CX motor are aesthetically more appealing to me vs the speed motor. The more appealing design coupled with my theory that a slower bike wouldn't affect my average commute times led me to look at bikes with the CX motor. At the top of that list was the 4.0 Trekking and the Bulls Cross Lite E. I had no dealer for the Bulls locally.

If you don't need the higher speeds and like me you have a lot of start/stop riding then I think it is a really good compromise (lower price, a bit lighter, better looks, higher torque, longer range due to lower speed but sacrifice top end speed). The 4.0 Trekking will be more than enough for your commute but if your riding outside of your commute is going to allow more open road and faster cruising I'd suggest you try out some of the speed pedelecs before you pull the trigger on the purchase. I'm very satisfied with the bike overall but I am really only using it for two purposes: my city commute and weekend neighborhood "zipping around". Neither of those uses has much open road cruising. I take full advantage of the high torque with fast acceleration but sacrifice the top end speed. And if you have to haul stuff: I haven't really found a good pannier option. My trunk bags are working well but they are small and I still have to carry some sort of backpack.

 

[DOM1NO]

Thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately no dealers anywhere close by. We have a Trek dealer, and they JUST got a Super Commuter in the other day and offered to let me test drive it. That was my first experience with an EBike. I really liked it, but I just can't see spending that much.

I commuted on a 250 dual sport motorcycle for almost 3 years so am used to carrying stuff in a backpack (rain gear, my lunch, ect.). I'm hoping to be able to fit everything I need on the bike in a trunk bag though. Luckily I can park the bike inside my office so don't have to worry about a lock.

I really can't see myself doing any open road cruising, just commuting. I'm 53 and it's just not in my DNA to go to a gym, I need to find a way to exercise regularly in an efficient manner, and I'm hoping this commute to work is it. I rode rain or shine on the motorcycle, and am hoping I can do the same on the bicycle.

 

[Over50]

...We have a Trek dealer, and they JUST got a Super Commuter in the other day and offered to let me test drive it. That was my first experience with an EBike. I really liked it, but I just can't see spending that much...

I'll just throw this out there as an option since you have a Trek dealer: I posted a couple of times here that I would have considered the new 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 hardtail over the Haibike had I known it was coming out. It has the CX motor but Trek has done an even better job at integrating that battery. It has the Purion display vs the Intuvia. It is listed about $1,000 less vs the Haibike but it does not come set up as a commuter. But you can add a rack, fenders and lighting per their website. Once you add those items, particularly the lighting, you probably have an equivalent price tag. But with Trek and Bontrager I think you might find better access to accessories and to service. I had already ordered the Haibike when I learned of the Trek. I just mentioned it to my dealer as a 'what if' and they seemed to think the add-ons were not a big deal and concurred that the bike could be turned into a good all-around/commuter. I'd probably also change the tires if the commute is strictly street riding. I guess much depends on the e-bike prowess of your local Trek dealer (my local store is pretty good and has been getting some of its techs certified with Bosch). Perhaps also with Trek you might be able to find a bike to demo.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...ain-bikes/powerfly/powerfly-5/p/2914600-2018/

 

[DOM1NO]

I'll just throw this out there as an option since you have a Trek dealer: I posted a couple of times here that I would have considered the new 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 hardtail over the Haibike had I known it was coming out.

Yea that's a nice looking bike. When I asked my LBS about discounting the Super Commuter they said they couldn't do it because it was 'so new', a 2018 model. So assuming I'd have to pay retail for the Powerfly, plus 6% sales tax, the Haibike is actually substantially less money. And that's not even factoring in the fenders, lights, tires, rack, etc. yet.

I also like the Intuvia over the Purion, so there's that. Hopefully, the LBS won't shun me and I can still buy accessories and get work done from them

I also looked at the Ohm Sport, but again because of the deals out there right now on the Haibike, the Ohm would end up being quite a bit more expensive.

 

[Over50]

I find the Haibike Trekking to be a very stiff frame, but I have 38C tires. @Over50 could you compare the ride comfort between this bike and the R&M Charger? Which fares better in the Detroit potholes?

First I have to caveat that I have the suspension set pretty stiff on both bikes. Most folks might ride my bikes and say "why have suspension if you don't use it?" Well its stiff on both but I've been riding that way on the theory that running close to max tire pressure and with stiff suspension will increase my efficiency (thus optimizing battery range). For the comparison between the two: I have the BodyFloat set the same between the two bikes (actually three bikes with my human powered bike). The front forks are set with similar air pressure (about 90 lbs) but I haven't taken time to tune the rebound identically on the two bikes. For starters on the Haibike, I set the rebound right in the middle. The R&M, off the top of my head, I don't recall where I landed after experimentation. The forks are both Suntour but different models. On both, I'm using only between 1/3rd to 1/2 of available travel. So with that background, I'd say right now the Haibike is smoothing things out a bit better but it isn't dramatically different. I was under the impression that the longer wheel base of the R&M would provide overall better comfort but it doesn't necessarily feel that way now they way I have things tuned. I've been running the same or similar tire pressure on the two bikes (same tires). I'm not sure what difference rim size makes but the R&M I think has 40 mm rims and the Haibike 35. I thought it odd they would be different for the same tire and it seems it could give the tire a slightly different profile but it isn't really noticeable by looking at the two side by side. I'm not sure how this impacts the ride. I do feel like the Haibike is more maneuverable for avoiding holes and debris. I feel a bit more stable on higher speed turns with the R&M. Probably a long non-answer for you but those have been my impressions so far. I wouldn't say one bike is head and shoulders over the other in comfort.

 

[Over50]

I envy your SuperMoto tyres....

On my R&M thread I posted that on a few occasions I've found small pieces of glass embedded between the treads of the Super Moto Xs but as of yet no flats. On Friday I commuted on the Haibike and on Saturday's inspection of the bike I found a wire embedded in the rear tire between the treads. It was solidly embedded so I felt sure that as soon as I pulled it out I would have a leak. Since the tire hadn't lost any pressure I grabbed a spare tube and rode it over to the bike shop. I'm right at 500 miles so I also wanted them to inspect the chain, brakes etc. Anyway, we pulled the wire out with needle nose pliers. It was very sharp and thin and about 1/2 of an inch long about half of which was stuck in the tire. So it penetrated about 1/4 of an inch but didn't penetrate the tube. It appeared to bend as it went into the tire. Not sure if it just wasn't long enough or if the protective layer of the tire stopped the wire and bent it sideways. So far so good with these tires.

 

[Sweetwater]

I'll just throw this out there as an option since you have a Trek dealer: I posted a couple of times here that I would have considered the new 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 hardtail over the Haibike had I known it was coming out. It has the CX motor but Trek has done an even better job at integrating that battery. It has the Purion display vs the Intuvia. It is listed about $1,000 less vs the Haibike but it does not come set up as a commuter. But you can add a rack, fenders and lighting per their website. Once you add those items, particularly the lighting, you probably have an equivalent price tag. But with Trek and Bontrager I think you might find better access to accessories and to service. I had already ordered the Haibike when I learned of the Trek. I just mentioned it to my dealer as a 'what if' and they seemed to think the add-ons were not a big deal and concurred that the bike could be turned into a good all-around/commuter. I'd probably also change the tires if the commute is strictly street riding. I guess much depends on the e-bike prowess of your local Trek dealer (my local store is pretty good and has been getting some of its techs certified with Bosch). Perhaps also with Trek you might be able to find a bike to demo.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...ain-bikes/powerfly/powerfly-5/p/2914600-2018/

It's a good looking bike on the surface and I really like the Bosch system (would love the 500W/h over my 2016 400 W/h) so I dug a little deeper.
Trek has been in my pedal bike stable routinely the past 40 years so the frame is solid.
However, the components used on this bike amounted to a major disappointment.
That's a similar price range to my FullSeven S Pro and it has better brakes, shocks (dual) and much better drive components.
I seriously question using entry level components on a 75nM drive, just looking for component failure sooner than later.

 

[japalmer4]

I just got my new Trekking 4.0 and noticed the maximum weight on the rack is 15 kg. That sounds low. Anyone try to put more weight on the rear rack?

 

[Over50]

I just got my new Trekking 4.0 and noticed the maximum weight on the rack is 15 kg. That sounds low. Anyone try to put more weight on the rear rack?

I don't have panniers that fit the rack/bike so I haven't put much weight on it. I am limited to a velcro attached trunk bag. The weight limit is surprising because the rack and bike/mounts seem burly. I noticed the bike has extra mounting points so I think you could change the rack. Something I might consider if I decide to keep the bike longer term.

 

[SamC]

I'm in the Haibike forum and not the Riese and Muller forum? Yes, I ordered a Haibike as my backup commuter and alternative ride. I wanted to switch things up from time to time and have a backup bike for when the R&M needs work.

Several factors influenced my purchase decision in no particular order:

• felt like a class 1 wouldn't slow my commute too much due to all the start/stop I have
• wanted to stick with Bosch for availability of service and battery sharing
• wanted a lower tech bike as the backup (no IGH and not a belt drive) for better availability of mechanics that can fix things
• most important: wanted to buy locally this time since I am not a good mechanic and am dependent on local shops for service - for mid-tier to upper-tier Bosch bikes this means I only had access to Trek and Haibike (could buy Specialized Vado if I wanted a Brose bike)
• Rode the Trek Super Commuter but don't like the red color and lack of suspension
• Really like the motor and battery integration on the Trekking 4.0; how the CX motor is tilted up, also like the lighting on the 4.0
• Pleased with the Super Moto-X tires on the R&M and same come on the Trekking 4.0; originally thought to go to a narrower tire but my roads really suck; and I've run over a lot of glass with my Moto-X tires and so far no flats

The biggest concern was sizing and there are some posts in this thread about that:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/are-haibikes-huge.13377/page-2
Trying the bike for sizing wasn't going to be an option unless I was willing to travel. I spent quite a bit of money doing this when I purchased the R&M and didn't really want to repeat with this purchase. So sizing was the biggest concern/risk with this purchase. I had several knowledgeable opinions steering me to the S 52cm and several to the XS 48cm frame (I'm 5'8" to 5'9" and 29.5" inseam - buy 30" inseam jeans). I ordered the XS as the opinions and feedback on this forum seemed to tick slightly in the favor of the XS. But the real clincher was the shop telling me they would put the bike into inventory if it wasn't the right size and order another for me. Great service from the shop which is primarily a Trek dealer but also sells IZip. They are a local outfit with a few locations and one of their locations has sold some Haibikes. My location has never stocked one so they had to do some research on order process etc. But they seem to think the bike will be one they can sell to another customer if it doesn't fit me. That really reduced my risk of purchase. I even offered to pay a restocking fee if necessary but they cited me being a good customer etc and said that wouldn't be necessary.

We also compared the Trekking 4.0 specs to some Treks and it seemed to fit more closely to the Powerfly 5 which they had in the shop. I took out a 17.5" Powerfly 5 (really fun bike by the way) and it seemed a good fit. Standover height on the Powerfly was listed the same as the Trekking 4.0 for instance. Geometries after that varied somewhat but fingers crossed that the 17.5" Powerfly was close enough of a proxy to the XS Trekking 4.0.

So when the bike comes in and if it fits I plan to make some mods (BodyFloat, maybe pedals, maybe handlebars, locking seat clamp maybe some security skewers), find some fitting panniers and/or trunk bag, and then break the bike in for some later summer commuting. I hope to have some feedback and comparisons to the R&M Charger to post here in the near future.

My XDuro Trekking 4.0 arrived and I test rode it today - XS 48 cm.

To recap: the LBS agreed to put the bike back in stock if it didn't fit and order a different size. I've already paid full purchase price. I had some very knowledgeable folks advise me to order the S (52 cm) and some equally knowledgeable folks advise me to order the XS. For example, a Haibike Marketing Manager was in the small camp and Ravi and the shop advertising to be the biggest Haibike seller (California) was in the XS camp. I set the bike side by side with my Riese and Muller Charger (M - 49 cm) and it does seem a bit smaller front to back but not noticeably so. The height seemed the same. I straddled the XS Haibike with shoes on and I touch the top tube. This is almost identical Stand-Over to the Charger although their specs say they are different by a cm or two. Judging solely on Stand-Over, I think the XS must be the right bike as I would have zero clearance on the next larger size.

Now considering reach: the bike felt good when I started riding. It is actually more upright vs the Charger and my arms were extended without being locked. It seemed fine but after about 30 minutes of riding I felt some pressure on my hands that I don't feel on the Charger. This seemed odd to be with a more upright position. I think the seat could be pushed back about 1/2 inch and the grips could be rotated. An LBS employee commented that the bike looked a bit short in terms of reach. So this is the odd thing about the Haibike vs the R&M. It has the scrunched up Top Tube and shorter wheelbase and everything seems closer together. I like the sporty feel of the bike and I even like the wider handle bars. They do help me starting from a stop because I have more leverage. I feel like the bike will be easier to take over curbs and sidewalks when necessary whereas the R&M is a better cruiser over long distance. I definitely wouldn't say I like it better than the R&M it is just different in ride and handling. The Haibike is sportier, perhaps lighter, and feels more agile. The R&M feels like it is more comfortable and would be particularly more comfortable over longer distance of on-road riding (it is worth mentioning that they have the same tires).

As for the 20mph CX motor: I definitely can't get the top speeds I get with the R&M but we're talking 19-20 mph vs 22-25 mph. I don't know though if it will really slow my commute. I did the test ride a lot in Sport mode and the torque is impressive. I feel like I just jump right up to 19 mph effortlessly. I'm sure it will cost me a bit of time on my commute but I don't think it will be much. It might save me some effort given the amount of start/stop on my commute and also have and advantage at those downtown intersections. I usually ride the R&M in Tour and Eco and focus more on range vs fast starting and top speed. The Haibike in Sport mode just jumps into action and then levels off between 19 and 20 mph. I didn't have much success maintaining a speed over 21 although I did top out at 21 on my test ride. The motor cutoff is extremely smooth and I don't necessarily feel it cutting out. I moreso just notice that I can't keep accelerating.

I think it is going to be a good 2nd commuter offering very different ride characteristics. My LBS guy left on vacation today so I didn't take delivery of the bike. Next steps are to order a BodyFloat and some pedals (opting for the same Origin8 Slimline 9s currently in use on my R&M). When my LBS guy is back I'll go back in for some additional fit confirmation before I agree to take this bike.

Just a note on the rear carrier: there was a thread here about panniers/bags for the rack. I ordered the 20 mm Ortleib hooks and took them to the LbS to check the size. They seemed way too large. Odd because folks seemed pretty certain the Standwell rack requires the 20 mm hooks. The rack is a bit wider vs the Racktime on the R&M thus the Vaude bag with the Racktime adaptor will not fit. Also, the lights are not daytime running and can be turned on/off. I thought they would be like the euro-lights on the R&M and 'always on'. But I'm glad for the potential daylight battery savings when I can use my USB rechargeable flashers. When/if I take delivery of this bike next week I will post some side by side comparison pictures to the R&M.

Hi Over50, I hate to resurrect this topic, but I too am struggling with the “right size” question. I’m 5-10 with a 31-inch inseam. I am 53 years old and want an ebike for use on paved bike paths and maybe some very light off-road. I am looking at the 2017 xduro cross 4.0, which appears to be identical to the xduro trekking 4.0 bike w/o the fenders, lights, etc. I started this process thinking the 56(M) would be the most appropriate frame size – because I have always been a medium. Fortunately, I spoke to some very knowledge folks who were well aware of Haibike’s useless size designations for this bike. The choice is now between the S and XS. It looks like you went with the XS 48. I read some feedback you provided shortly after you got the bike in July. I got the sense you thought it was a good fit, but you had some concern with the reach. Has your opinion of the size changed after six or seven months? Any suggestions for me on the size decision? I hate the idea of a bike that is too small. My one complaint with my old 1989 mountain bike is that my hands go numb on long rides. I assume that one explanation for that problem is that I’m riding a bike that is too small (18-inch frame) - but I suspect the real explanation may be more complicated. Alternatively, if I got the XS, I think my 5-5 wife could ride this bike in a pinch (until she gets her own.) I fear that if I got the S(52), that would not be an option – but maybe I’m wrong. Any insight you can provide on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Over50]

Hi Over50, I hate to resurrect this topic, but I too am struggling with the “right size” question. I’m 5-10 with a 31-inch inseam. I am 53 years old and want an ebike for use on paved bike paths and maybe some very light off-road. I am looking at the 2017 xduro cross 4.0, which appears to be identical to the xduro trekking 4.0 bike w/o the fenders, lights, etc. I started this process thinking the 56(M) would be the most appropriate frame size – because I have always been a medium. Fortunately, I spoke to some very knowledge folks who were well aware of Haibike’s useless size designations for this bike. The choice is now between the S and XS. It looks like you went with the XS 48. I read some feedback you provided shortly after you got the bike in July. I got the sense you thought it was a good fit, but you had some concern with the reach. Has your opinion of the size changed after six or seven months? Any suggestions for me on the size decision? I hate the idea of a bike that is too small. My one complaint with my old 1989 mountain bike is that my hands go numb on long rides. I assume that one explanation for that problem is that I’m riding a bike that is too small (18-inch frame) - but I suspect the real explanation may be more complicated. Alternatively, if I got the XS, I think my 5-5 wife could ride this bike in a pinch (until she gets her own.) I fear that if I got the S(52), that would not be an option – but maybe I’m wrong. Any insight you can provide on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

My honest feeling is that the bike feels small to me. I feel like I am on a BMX bike. It is a different feeling vs when I'm on the Riese and Muller which is a 49 (should be little difference between a 48 and 49 right?). Now saying it feels small doesn't mean it is necessarily bad. I am a bit more upright, I feel like I have a lot of control over the bike and it is very agile. I do my 35 mile commute with no discomfort in hands, neck or back. I would say it beats my larger bike in agility. I've thought maybe the feeling of being on a small bike is caused by the contrast. That is switching up between a larger and smaller bike frequently. I think the larger sized Trekking 4.0 model would have worked for me but I guess I'll not be able to say for sure until I've tried one (not possible in my area with no Haibike inventory available).

 

[Over50]

I would add to pay close attention to the difference between the ‘classic’ Haibike frame and the newer Xduro 4.0 or Sduro 9.5 frame.

For example, I have the classic Trekking in size 52. It has a horizontal top tube of 600mm, which is the same as some L sized frames I’ve owned. Moreover, it comes with 3 spacers which place the handlebars quite high. The standover height of 790 mm makes it easy to straddle, so I took the 52 (size S) even though I’m slightly under 6ft1. No regrets.

But the newer frames have a top tube measurement of 580mm. So you have to look at the geometry very carefully. If I got the newer style frame, I’d probably go with size 56.

This reminds me of a point I forgot to make in my response. While the bike feels small to me (48), the standover height is perfect. I can straddle flat footed and I'm barely clearing the top tube (I'm 5'8 1/2). I have about the same amount of clearance on the R&M (a 49). I see on Haibike's description they mention something about a revised geometry (of the XDuro 4.0 Trekking). So I imagine that foremost they are referring to that scrunched up top tube you mention.

And as an aside, I mentioned to the LBS that the bike felt small to me but that it might just be the contrast with the other bike: they just offered up a possible experiment of trying a slightly longer stem to stretch me out a bit more. Said I could try it for a few commutes and they would switch it back if I didn't like the change. Not sure if I'll try this or not since I'm not having any discomfort on the rides.

 

[Over50]

After a couple of cold March commutes I was almost at 1,000 miles. So took the XDuro Trekking 4.0 to the shop for a good going over (cleaning, chain replacement). I opted to replace the chain early and went with the KMC EPT 11 (I think that was it). E-Bike rated chain.

 

[Manu]

¡eye! Kmc ept 10 speed and kmc ept 11 speed have the same pin 5mm,They also exist in 6mm and 8mm for less speeds

 

[Over50]

¡eye! Kmc ept 10 speed and kmc ept 11 speed have the same pin 5mm,They also exist in 6mm and 8mm for less speeds

Your post showed up as something different in my email. Stating a difference between the 10 and 11 speed chain. The XDuro 4.0 is an 11 speed so I used the EPT 11. Hope that was the right choice.