Outside Magazines Mixed Review of Yamaha's New eBikes

[e-boy]

From Outside Magazine , "Yamaha just debuted a line of four new e-bikes, and were tested in the mountains of Southern California":

https://www.outsideonline.com/2293446/what-if-motorcycle-company-made-electric-bicycles

 

[e-boy]

No , I just wanted to intro the link with a line from the articles first paragraph .
I edited the post and hope that clarifies .
Thanks for the heads-up .

 

[e-boy]

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

The PWseries SE inherits all the popular features of the first-generation PWseries and then expands the pleasure of riding from streets to fields to become Yamaha’s new standard model. The supported cadence has been raised from 100 rpm to 110 rpm

 

[J.R.]

I'm not a fan of the writer of this article in Outside Mag. He's taken part and even provoked the meme of bike + motor = motorcycle. He's anti ebike on single-track and seems to think ebikes are best for the old and infirmed.

Starting the article with: "Everyone on the internet likes to call electric bicycles “motorcycles,” so maybe it makes sense that a motorcycle company is now making electric bicycles."

That's a telling statement in an opinion piece. Everyone? He's entitled to his opinion.

 

[Nova Haibike]

Frome the article: "the company has been manufacturing e-bike motors and batteries for the past 25 years. It has supplied Trek with e-bike components since 2012."

What Trek e-bikes have had Yamaha components?

 

[bob armani]

Frome the article: "the company has been manufacturing e-bike motors and batteries for the past 25 years. It has supplied Trek with e-bike components since 2012."

What Trek e-bikes have had Yamaha components?

Perhaps they are referring to the Yamaha internal electronics that are part of Trek electronic components?? Just guessing. Maybe the verbiage needs to be more specific in the article...

 

[JRA]

Frome the article: "the company has been manufacturing e-bike motors and batteries for the past 25 years. It has supplied Trek with e-bike components since 2012."

What Trek e-bikes have had Yamaha components?

I had one I got for next to nothing like 10 years ago. It was a pretty simple bike with a Yamaha mid drive. Battery chemistry was one step above SLA. A friend rode it for a few years but it didn’t go fast or far. The battery finally crapped out. Like many of the systems bitd. Li ion was really the turning point in e bike development.

 

[MisterM]

I'm not a fan of the writer of this article in Outside Mag. He's taken part and even provoked the meme of bike + motor = motorcycle. He's anti ebike on single-track and seems to think ebikes are best for the old and infirmed.

Starting the article with: "Everyone on the internet likes to call electric bicycles “motorcycles,” so maybe it makes sense that a motorcycle company is now making electric bicycles."

That's a telling statement in an opinion piece. Everyone? He's entitled to his opinion.

Perhaps. But his biggest beef is noisy motors (and a pet peeve of mine)

"Our biggest complaint is that motor noise is plainly evident. Yamaha claims the higher-decibel levels compared to rival systems are the result of the higher density of better parts used inside the motor, which it claims should result in a longer service life. Perhaps that’s true, but during our short time on the bikes, long-term reliability wasn’t testable, and the noise was annoying."

 

[Nova Haibike]

I'm surprised he thinks the motor is loud. I don't think my PW is loud, and certainly not annoying. I have heard others say the Yamaha motors are quieter than Bosch motors.

 

[e-boy]

I rented a Giant Quick E+ recently .
Fun to ride ; but stiff , and noisy . .
Fast , balanced , great hill climber ; but noisy .

 

[Mikey-]

I was at the event, if you have any specific questions I can help out. I'm still making more review/content for the YT channel, but I was able to sneak this out in a hurry:

 

[e-boy]

Great report , thank you Mikey .
How do they ride when hitting the 20mph limit ?

 

[Mikey-]

At 20mph they feel really nice. The cut-off was hardly apparent at 20, and the mechanical gearing still left some room for tension when going downhill. This morning I rode a different motor system to work, and the cut-off point was quite apparent.

I did learn while I was there that Yamaha Power Assist Bicycles specifically tune the motor to behave slightly different with each model they have. This customization has been available to other manufacturers, but some of them don't use the opportunity; they just slap the system on the bike without a second thought. My guess is that this very point is a big reason Yamaha wanted to make bikes at all; to really show how refined their motor system can be.
I started thinking about it: there's a good chance other motor manuf. experience the same thing. I'm still guessing here, but perhaps the bikes using the Bosch system had that boat anchor effect at 20mph only because the bike manufacturer didn't bother to tune the motor before putting it on a bike. It would make sense that Bosch would allow full power to 20mph by default, and then tone it down from there, and the bike company just uses the default setting. Anyways, just an assumption...

 

[Nova Haibike]

I was and am still excited to see these bikes come to market, but I also still think it was a huge mistake for Yamaha to restrict the CrossConnect and UrbanRush models to 20 mph. I understand that some places in the USA don't allow such bikes, but people should at least have the choice to buy it and decide whether or not to follow the local regulations. Yamaha sells motorcycles that accelerate so fast as to rip your ears off, and go well beyond speed limits, but they won't sell a bicycle that does a mere 28mph? Dumb.

 

[Mikey-]

I was quite perplexed they have a model called the UrbanRush, but it's limited to 20. Such a silly misnomer may be a clue as to their future intentions.

 

[e-boy]

Thanks for the follow-up .
Are the new models any quieter than the previous generation ?

 

[Mikey-]

Nope.
The newer motor systems (PW-SE on road bikes, PW-X on the mtb) are noisier on account of the increased torque. I dunno if the materials used inside the motor had anything to do with it, but I know they made some internal changes. I was kind of bummed, 'cause I felt like the Yamaha won between the older systems (PW and the Bosch Performance). Now I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[bob armani]

Nope.
The newer motor systems (PW-SE on road bikes, PW-X on the mtb) are noisier on account of the increased torque. I dunno if the materials used inside the motor had anything to do with it, but I know they made some internal changes. I was kind of bummed, 'cause I felt like the Yamaha won between the older systems (PW and the Bosch Performance). Now I'm not so sure anymore.

That is kinda disappointing to hear that about Yamaha and a bit surprising, considering Yamaha has always been an extremely advanced company as far back as I can remember. Why would they make an E-bike motor so noisy when competitors like Brose' and Dapu are so quiet from what I have personally tested. Part of the whole E-bike experience is about having a super quiet motor to just enjoy the ride.

 

[Mikey-]

That is kinda disappointing to hear that about Yamaha and a bit surprising, considering Yamaha has always been an extremely advanced company as far back as I can remember. Why would they make an E-bike motor so noisy when competitors like Brose' and Dapu are so quiet from what I have personally tested. Part of the whole E-bike experience is about having a super quiet motor to just enjoy the ride.

I personally love the quiet and smooth feel of the Brose motor, but I haven't tried one yet that was especially torquey. Even the 28mph version wasn't all that punchey in performance. The smoothness and quietness are a great system for an easy going rider, I think. I tried a dapu mid-drive a couple times, and I'm not impressed so far. More testing to be done with it but even if it's quiet, I don't like how it rides.

 

[JRA]

Speaking of Yamaha Giant showed their new line at Sea Otter and along with the e+ road bike that is Class III it showed a gravel bike that is only Class I claiming because it is for off road use.

This makes no sense as it will be used as a multi surface road bike, not an mtb, and should have the 28mph setup.