One month post Neo Carbon purchase

[flymeaway]

OK... I have almost 500 miles on the Easy Motion Neo Carbon. I really like the bike, but there are a few things that should be noted.

The bike is excellent for commuting and general touring on asphalt and gravel roads. After changing the seat, and putting a handle bar extension on, I can ride for several hours without fatigue. I commute to work (14 miles) over moderately hilly terrain in SW New Hampshire. I ride the bike in Eco mode and switch to Standard when I want to climb a steep grade or cruise at around 24/25 MPH. My opinion; Sport and Boost don't add anything noticeable to motor power beyond the Standard setting and the throttle is a waste of time and space.

The bike has about a 30 mile range (battery) with the way I've been riding. On tours I often ride without assist and the bike can go well beyond 40 miles. I have 3 out of 5 bars when I ride to work and 1 bar left when I get home (28+ miles). My wife rides a Neo Cross and the one thing I can report, her battery will outlast the Carbon by at least 15-20%. Perhaps there will be an upgrade battery in the future? No problems to report, just the usual tighten an loose fastener. Since this is my 1st ebike I have nothing to compare it to, but I would rate the bike 9/10.

One last note.....the only somewhat annoying issue I have is the controller response in Eco mode. Unless you are pushing fairly hard on the cranks the motor cuts in and out, so I've learned to make certain I'm putting fairly consistent pressure on the cranks to maintain power. In Standard mode the controller is apparently setup to be more sensitive so I don't notice the cutting out issue. Also the motor on dwell after pedaling in Standard mode is longer, it may explain the smoother operation.

 

[Vern]

I have a very similar commute and impressions of my Carbon. I have also noticed the controller response issue in Eco mode. I am usually trying to get to work as quickly as possible and just leave it in Standard. The odd thing for me about Eco mode is that the force required to continue assist is inconsistent. There are times when my bike is temperamental and requires very hard pedaling in Eco to assist and will immediately cut out when I let off at all. I have noticed that if I come to a complete stop and turn off the bike and then power it back on it will usually clear this up. Additionally, the tall road bike gearing of the bike REALLY makes me wish that the motor didn't cut out at around 26/27. The bike could easily go 30+ if the controller allowed it to. My only other issue with the bike was that the seat kept moving at the seat post connection point when I would hit a a large bump. I think that I have finally resolved this issue by better centering the seat and tightening the hell out of it. Other than these minor complaints, I really love my bike. I think it is one of the best commuter ebikes presently available and I would highly recommend it.

 

[flymeaway]

I have a very similar commute and impressions of my Carbon. I have also noticed the controller response issue in Eco mode. I am usually trying to get to work as quickly as possible and just leave it in Standard. The odd thing for me about Eco mode is that the force required to continue assist is inconsistent. There are times when my bike is temperamental and requires very hard pedaling in Eco to assist and will immediately cut out when I let off at all. I have noticed that if I come to a complete stop and turn off the bike and then power it back on it will usually clear this up. Additionally, the tall road bike gearing of the bike REALLY makes me wish that the motor didn't cut out at around 26/27. The bike could easily go 30+ if the controller allowed it to. My only other issue with the bike was that the seat kept moving at the seat post connection point when I would hit a a large bump. I think that I have finally resolved this issue by better centering the seat and tightening the hell out of it. Other than these minor complaints, I really love my bike. I think it is one of the best commuter ebikes presently available and I would highly recommend it.

Thanks for the confirmation on the Eco mode, and I agree it can be frustrating. If the engineers would work on smoothing the inconsistency in the application of torque and the corresponding motor response, it would improve the overall functionality of the bike. It is a good choice for commuters.

 

[Admin]

The only somewhat annoying issue I have is the controller response in Eco mode. Unless you are pushing fairly hard on the cranks the motor cuts in and out, so I've learned to make certain I'm putting fairly consistent pressure on the cranks to maintain power.

I've experienced the exact same thing and it seems to impact all Easy Motion electric bikes (at least the ones from 2013 with the higher powered Eco mode). Kind of frustrating because there are moments when the motor cuts out way after I've stopped pedaling and other times where it doesn't stay on long enough (namely in Eco Mode). I think they're working on it and I agree that aside from this issue the system works pretty well.

I just reviewed the Prox and it had a really slow cutout in the higher assist levels. I try to demonstrate this in the video review portion. Maybe some of it has to do with how tight the torque sensor is? The Prox I tried was still being assembled and probably not perfectly dialed in.

 

[flymeaway]

I've experienced the exact same thing and it seems to impact all Easy Motion electric bikes (at least the ones from 2013 with the higher powered Eco mode). Kind of frustrating because there are moments when the motor cuts out way after I've stopped pedaling and other times where it doesn't stay on long enough (namely in Eco Mode). I think they're working on it and I agree that aside from this issue the system works pretty well.

I just reviewed the Prox and it had a really slow cutout in the higher assist levels. I try to demonstrate this in the video review portion. Maybe some of it has to do with how tight the torque sensor is? The Prox I tried was still being assembled and probably not perfectly dialed in.

Thanks for the confirmation. It's really about the only serious gripe I have about the controls/motor. I've learned to adapt and often will move to from Eco to standard when I am working in a good cadence at around 19/20 mph. I originally thought it might be the torque sensor because my wife's Cross was even more finicky in Eco and she puts less pressure on the cranks. But I'm fairly certain it's the control since Standard mode smooths out the abrupt cut-outs that we experience in Eco mode on both the Carbon, and the Cross.

Court J.

 

[Allan]

I've only recently purchased a Neo Carb and have posted my challenges with it on this forum. Initially my display and it's mount were not connecting properly which hid from me how my bike works. Since getting this part replaced I've noticed something that seems opposite from what's written in this section.

It's written in this series of posts that applying continued pressure in eco mode keeps the engine engaged. My observation is, that when I apply heavy pressure on the pedals (in any mode) the motor turns off. Then it takes several display off/on repeats before the system starts operating normally. But, perhaps, we're talking about different things here. Can you, then, clarify what you mean when you say your motors "cut out"?

When I say the motor turns off, I mean it is totally off; giving every appearance that it is no longer getting any power or able to give power unless I reset the system via the above noted display off/on series. Is this what you mean by your motors "cutting out"? Or do you mean the motor can continue to assist without resetting the system (display off/on thing) but that the assistance is intermit. If the latter, then your meaning of "cut out" is different from mine in that your motor is still getting electrical power.

FYI: I'm operating with the temporary assumption that the motor turning off is normal. I speculate that strong pressure on the pedal is interpreted by the bike as a request to provide more power than it can give. E.g., if Boost multiplies your pedaling three times, then heavy pressure of the pedal is a signal to give more than three times the assist. As the bike can't do that, the motor turns off. Then you have to leave it alone while the system resets from this request to give more than it can take.

Knowing precisely what you mean by "cutting out" will help me refine my assumption about how the Neo Carbon works. Thanks for any response on this.

 

[flymeaway]

"It's written in this series of posts that applying continued pressure in eco mode keeps the engine engaged. My observation is, that when I apply heavy pressure on the pedals (in any mode) the motor turns off. Then it takes several display off/on repeats before the system starts operating normally. But, perhaps, we're talking about different things here. Can you, then, clarify what you mean when you say your motors "cut out"?"

Hello Alan,

Putting pressure on the cranks (in any assist mode) should not turn off the motor. What I meant by cut-out; when the control is set in any assist mode and you are putting pressure on the cranks the motor should be running and when you stop pedaling there is a dwell period when the motor continues to run...maybe 0.5 - 1.0 second. You can best observe this action by pedaling at a very slow speed, when you stop pedaling the motor will continue to run for a moment then stop (cut-out), if you again apply pressure the motor will turn on again until you stop pedaling.

I have found that the best way to observe the functioning of the different assist levels is to pedal on the flat at around 18-20 MPH with no assist, then engage Eco and observe the motor assist, then while still pedaling in Eco step up to Standard. You should see an incremental increase in motor power. From Eco to Standard it's very noticeable, but from Standard to Sport it's almost imperceptible and from Sport to Boost I can't tell any change.

Hope this helps???????

Court J.

 

[Allan]

Hi, Flymeaway.

Thanks for your speedy reply.

You write that you get good assist in “eco” and “standard” mode but, “from Standard to Sport it's almost imperceptible and from Sport to Boost I can't tell any change.” This is interesting as my experience is the exact opposite. “Eco” and “standard” give very little, if any, assistance while “Sport” and “Boost” give me terrific performance. This makes me wonder if there isn’t something about both our ebikes that need a bit of fine-tuning so each higher assist mode will give significantly better speed than the lower?

As to the question of the motor turning off, please first note that I said that the motor turned off for two reasons. First, I could no long hear it at any assist mode but, more significantly, no assist mode or the turbo function would engage. And turbo wouldn’t re-engage unless I turned the display off, then on again. Second, I’ve been told the motor will turn off if it’s overheated. So it made sense to speculate that it could also turn off if over stressed by too much pedal pressure, which seemed to be happening with my ebike.

But, with your observation of needing a lot of pedal power, I tested a new hypothesis in today’s ebike ride. I discovered that “sport” and “boost” mode does engage if I use the ebike’s gears in a specific way. I discovered that “sport” and “boost” require the highest gears possible to function properly, so I have to shift to the highest gears almost immediately after the motor kicks in, otherwise the assistance will stop.

This is best explained with my experience of coming to a stop. (First note that by high gear I mean the highest setting on the gear to the left side of the handle bar related to the three cogs at the pedals.)

If I have to stop in the highest gear while in “sport” or “boost” mode, and then start pedaling again, the motor will momentarily engage but then cut out. At this point it seems the motor has turned itself off. However, if I lower the gear to the middle setting/cog before stopping, then start pedaling from a dead stop, the motor will continue to give power if I immediately put the gear back to it’s highest setting once I feel the motor start. It is as if the ebike needs some extra signal that is supplied by going into a higher gear to continue to work. But if I'm already in the highest gear, that signal doesn't come and the motor ceases any assistance. (In a few circumstances I've noticed the motor will give assistance later down the road, so this would rule out the motor turning off altogether.)

I don’t know if my need to switch to a higher gear fits with your observation that you must put “fairly consistent pressure on the cranks to maintain power” in Eco mode. However there is some parallel, don’t you think, in that both bikes require some type of continued pressure on the pedals that I can only get by switching to higher gears, and you can only get by putting fairly consistent pressure on the pedals.

Any way, thanks for reading this and any thoughts sent in return.

 

[Vern]

Allan,
I think there is something wrong with your bike. If you have a dealer nearby, I would bring it in. It might be a loose wire, a loose control panel or the torque sensor. These are just guesses, but they seem to be the most common problems with Emotion bikes. I am sorry to hear that you are having such issues. My bike has been almost perfect. Best of luck to you.

 

[Allan]

Thank you, Vern.

I do intend to take the bike back to the dealer so his mechanic will see if what I've observed has any known solution. While at first I thought the motor was ceasing to work, I now lean more to the thought that the torque sensor needs adjustment. I've already had the control panel replaced and all wires I can tighten have been seen too. But with Flymeaway's ebike giving better assistance in the lower modes and mine giving better assistance in the higher modes I tend to think both our ebikes have some torque sensor problem. But the good news is that the ebike is working well enough to enjoy my rides the more I learn how to ride it.

I'll post again after my visit to the dealer/mechanic.

 

[Admin]

But the good news is that the ebike is working well enough to enjoy my rides the more I learn how to ride it...

Hey Allan, I'm glad the bike is working well enough to ride but really bummed that it's not performing as expected. Reading through your detailed explanations and hypothesis is exhausting and I agree with Vern that something just isn't right. I suggest riding other Easy Motion bikes when you visit the shop so you can get a feel for "normal". What you've described is not normal to me but then again, I'm riding on mostly flat surfaces, calm conditions and I weigh 130lbs so maybe the variables are different between us? That said, some of the guys on here who own Emotion bikes are ~200 so the weight thing should only be an issue if we're talking over 300 plus hills (and this is just a guess).

 

[Allan]

After much tribulation, and through a process of trial an error, I have finally figured out how my Neo Carbon ebike works.

If I have a hill to climb, I need to start out with turbo to gain speed. Then, at a certain velocity, the ebike can be switched to Sport or Boost. The gears must be set to medium levels or higher when doing this and it works best if I’m already pedaling as I switch from turbo to a higher assist mode.

If the gears are too low the motor will start but then immediately quit. If I apply too much pressure on the pedals the motor will quit. And, when in either Sport or Boost and I need to make a turn, the motor will quit if my speed drops to less than 10 kph.

Using the above approach, today I climbed hills and went over the long, steep Golden Ears Bridge with ease.

Interestingly, on flat surfaces I can use Eco and Standard relatively successfully if I keep pedaling with no strain put on the pedals and the ebike is in higher gears. However, I often take my time on flat areas to look around for eagles and to take in the sites. As this requires very little pedaling neither Eco nor Standard ever kicks in. This inactivity seems to be responsible for the motor going to sleep and not engaging when I do start pedaling. Further, turbo won’t come on so I have to turn the display off and restart it. Then I must again use turbo to ensure the ebike will work properly. In other words, it seems I must be actively pedaling to keep the motor working otherwise power to the motor stops, even though the display says everything is fine.

Now I don’t know if other Neo Carbs function the way mine does, and maybe there is some problem with my particular ebike that puts it to “sleep” when it shouldn’t, but the good news is I now know how to operate the ebike so I can climb hill and dale with confidence.

Hope this info helps others!

P.S. Thanks Court. I know my descriptions were "exhausting" to read. However, much experience has shown that where one does not give complete and exhaustive descriptions, the result is usually not worth reading. It's like trying to figure out how to solve a problem with your Apple computer by referring to the Apple site that gives five steps to solving your problem, but leaves out the important sixth step that makes the solution work.

 

[Admin]

I know my descriptions were "exhausting" to read. However, much experience has shown that where one does not give complete and exhaustive descriptions, the result is usually not worth reading...

I'm just glad to hear you've got it working Allan! Part of the exhaustion for me was wanting to help and feeling bad that your bike was not performing as desired. I was really reading carefully and trying to diagnose the issue. Your follow up here is awesome and hopefully it will help others who may be struggling with the same or similar issues