one kid, lightweight, less $, USA - help?

[ChrisM]

Ok, I looked through the forum and didn't see any thread exactly like this, so... I'm ready for an e-bike, and have a child on the way that I want to transport by bike. We won't have more, so I'm not worried about future expansion. Here are my considerations, and I'm grateful for any advice y'all have!

I want this bike to:
-->Fit a handlebar kid seat for a while, then have room for a back-rack kid seat later on.
-->Manage a hill (150 yards, moderately steep, paved), so both sufficient oomph on the up and great breaks for the down.
-->Be light-weight in case I can't figure good outdoor storage (there aren't yet good options outdoors for me). I would have to traverse 10 moderately steep steps to get it in the basement. My current non-electric is close to 35 pounds, so I generally feel ok in that range or a little more.
-->Have parts that a standard bike shop can handle. I have "my" shop two blocks away, but they don't sell many e-bikes, and I don't want them to be flummoxed by my choice. For example, the Rad series sounds like it's been an issue for many who need repairs (to say nothing of the proprietary tires).
-->Probably want it to be a step-through!
-->I'd be thrilled if this bike had a rack that could accommodate a kids seat AND a pannier. But before you try to convince my I need a cargo bike...
-->Every person's "cheap" is a little different. I'm leaning toward a smaller bike, not a cargo bike. I might want to take it places sometimes in a car or on a rack. I want capacity to carry groceries and a kid, but I don't necessarily need hundreds and hundreds of pounds of cargo capacity. Am I hoping for all that under $2000? Yes, I am.

Thanks to all you brilliant bikers who have good suggestions for me, THANKS!

 

[pxpaulx]

Maybe REI's e1.2 could fit the bill? The hill question will depend a lot on the overall weight on the bike (you+kid+stuff). A hub motor also won't do as well on hills as a mid-drive...

https://www.rei.com/product/190640/co-op-cycles-generation-e12-electric-bike

Perhaps their CTY 2.2 would be better:

https://www.rei.com/product/172496/co-op-cycles-cty-e22-electric-bike

 

[indianajo]

I started biking in 1953 when my Father built a child seat and mounted it on the front of my Mother's 1946 Firestone safety bike. It had a rim to capture me in and a bar to split my legs & keep me from falling that way.
I was tiny. 42 lb age 8. I think it would be an advantage to have a seat rack that didn't steer with the front wheel. While I'm locking my bike up or loading groceries, the front wheel snaps sideways sometimes and throws the bike off it's two legged stand. A fixed front rack would keep the child & carseat weight from adding to that sideways thrust. One model with such a rack is the surface604 werk. https://surface604bikes.com/products/2022-werk It only comes in one size, so check your body dimensions against that size. With a bike like this, your have to put spoke guards on the wheel yourself to prevent pinch injuries.
Upright and relaxed pasture frames put >60% of the rider's weight on the back tire. Putting groceries or a child+seat back there makes the situation worse. The light front tire can slip sideways or snap sideways on a bump or stick. Both have happened to me throwing me over the handlebars on my chin 5 times. Stretch frame cargo bikes solve that problem with putting much of the rider's weight on the front wheel. Once such bike is the blix packa, which meets your budget with one battery. https://blixbike.com/products/packa
2 shorter cargo models are the tern GSD or Eunorau , but 20" wheels provide a lot more shock when you hit a pothole. If it is raining or snows, I can't always miss them. I ride 26" wheels on my yubabike bodaboda.
As far as the fear of pxpaulx of riding a geared hub motor on one hill, I climb 60-70 of them in my commute to my summer camp. Three of them are 15% grade, 100'. I carry 60 lb groceries in panniers, total weight 330 lb. I admit the 1000 w Mac12t geared hub motor was supremely capable. Now that ~40 states have banned electric bicycle motors over 750 watts, they have demonstrated that riders with kids or cargo should buy a gasoline motorcycle. Unlicensed gas scooters in my state are allowed 5 hp.
Mid-drives don't increase torque with the gears for climbing hills unless the rear sprocket is bigger than the drive sprocket, or a torque multiplying IGH like shimano Alfine is used. I see no bike under $2000 with either of those features. A 48 tooth rear sprocket is the size of a pie plate, ~10". What mid-drives do better, is not overheat when climbing a grade slowly over 1000' elevation rise. People that don't live near or travel to a Rocky mountain or Sierra mountain don't have that problem.

 

[Dewey]

Considering your requirements here are a few suggestions:

Momentum Voya E+3 - a Class 1 ebike with hydraulic disk brakes. The optional Momentum rear rack handles loads up to 55lb and has pannier rails. Momentum is a brand that can be bought and serviced from a Giant dealer. The bike weighs just under 40lb unloaded which is lightweight for an ebike. The trade off‘s for the lightweight are a hub motor that provides modest (25Nm, 250w) assistance, with a torque PAS sensor (responds to your pedal effort to provide more power the harder you push), and a small battery (250wh), albeit with a fast 4A charger. Standard bicycle tires (700 X 38c) and a wide range 11-42t 9-speed cassette which would be useful when climbing hills. Court's review here on EBR.

Propella 9S Pro - Class 1 with hydraulic disk brakes. Heavier than the Voya at 41lb unloaded due to the larger (360wh) battery and a more powerful Vinka (45Nm, 350w) hub motor, with a standard 2A charger, and cadence PAS sensor (on/off power switch that reads when you are pedalling and the crank is turning). The optional Axiom rack is rated for 100lb but does not have pannier rails. Wider tires than the Voya (650 x 50c) would offer more ride comfort, and 11-32t 9-speed cassette. Court's review here on EBR.

Kona Dew HD - Class 1, with hydraulic disk brakes, larger 180mm rotors. Weighs a few pounds more than the Propella, maybe around 43lb, but has a more powerful (60Nm, 350w) Suntour hub motor, with a standard 2A charger, but with a more sophisticated torque PAS sensor, larger (418wh) battery, similar wider (650 X 47c) tires, and 11-32t 8-speed cassette. Some proprietary parts, as noted in this BikeRumor article, although as they describe the special Tektro PCD83 brake rotor with a larger than usual mounting bolt pattern is available from Kona or Suntour.

 

[Dewey]

Another thought, if you're interested in a mid-drive ebike, the Motobecane Electric Adventure is a Class 1 bike with hydraulic disk brakes, made in Taiwan and imported to the US by BikesDirect.com
It has a Shimano e5000 motor (40Nm) with a torque PAS sensor, 418wh battery, 11-32t 9-speed cassette, and wide tires (700 x 50c). It isn't clear from the website if the bike is capable of mounting a rack, though the publicity photos show what appear to be the required bolt holes I would recommend confirming this before purchase (their service email appears to be [email protected]). This is a direct to consumer importer so it isn't clear what support you may get during the warranty period, however the bike is assembled using standard Shimano components. While in theory any Shimano certified service center ought to be able to service the motor, before you buy you should call around and find one prepared to work on a bike not purchased from them.

 

[ChrisM]

Another thought, if you're interested in a mid-drive ebike, the Motobecane Electric Adventure is a Class 1 bike with hydraulic disk brakes, made in Taiwan and imported to the US by BikesDirect.com
It has a Shimano e5000 motor (40Nm) with a torque PAS sensor, 418wh battery, 11-32t 9-speed cassette, and wide tires (700 x 50c). It isn't clear from the website if the bike is capable of mounting a rack, though the publicity photos show what appear to be the required bolt holes I would recommend confirming this before purchase (their service email appears to be [email protected]). This is a direct to consumer importer so it isn't clear what support you may get during the warranty period, however the bike is assembled using standard Shimano components. While in theory any Shimano certified service center ought to be able to service the motor, before you buy you should call around and find one prepared to work on a bike not purchased from them.

Interesting, thanks. I am hearing that the mid-drive can help with balancing out the weight (with kid+full pannier on the back). Are there other benefits? This motobecane seems very mountain-bike focused, which I don't think is what I need. What should I be thinking about in terms of the trade-offs between bikes pitched for mountain riders and bikes pitched for commuters?

 

[Dewey]

I agree with you, personally I prefer a more upright riding position, this was just a mid-drive ebike that came in under your budget. Could you stretch your budget another $500? That would broaden your choice of mid-drive bikes including the Gazelle Medeo T9 City which according to the Electric Bike Report review has a rack rated to carry 60lb so it should take a clamp-on child seat in addition to the 6lb battery (here is Court's review), or the Batch e-comfort 1, or Vvolt Centauri. These mid-drive models weigh between 45-55lb so the trade off for the improved balance of a mid-drive ebike is extra weight. FWIW I have a mid-drive 36v BBS01 motor on my DIY ebike I use to tow a 7yo on a WeeHoo trailer-cycle up hills so any mid-drive bike would provide ample assistance.

 

[TrevorB]

Power delivery by torque sensing middrives is totally different from low cost cadence sensing hubdrive ebikes. You need to test ride both to understand difference. Torque sensing is lot better in low speed situations as power delivery is smoother and more predictable.

 

[Dewey]

My experience test riding a Gazelle EasyFlow model with a Shimano Steps motor was the first time I rode an ebike with a torque sensor. My BBS01 has a cadence sensor so I was used to leaving my foot on the pedal when stopped and waiting at a light. The weight of my big foot on the pedal was enough to trigger the torque sensor to activate the motor and the first few times I found myself grabbing the brakes until I figured out what was happening.

 

[fooferdoggie]

My experience test riding a Gazelle EasyFlow model with a Shimano Steps motor was the first time I rode an ebike with a torque sensor. My BBS01 has a cadence sensor so I was used to leaving my foot on the pedal when stopped and waiting at a light. The weight of my big foot on the pedal was enough to trigger the torque sensor to activate the motor and the first few times I found myself grabbing the brakes until I figured out what was happening.

ya even on my Bosch this can happen though not much. I have to put some weight on it. I had a dapu mid drive and just having my foot on the pedal would jump it forward a lot.

 

[ChrisM]

I agree with you, personally I prefer a more upright riding position, this was just a mid-drive ebike that came in under your budget. Could you stretch your budget another $500? That would broaden your choice of mid-drive bikes including the Gazelle Medeo T9 City which according to the Electric Bike Report review has a rack rated to carry 60lb so it should take a clamp-on child seat in addition to the 6lb battery (here is Court's review), or the Batch e-comfort 1, or Vvolt Centauri. These mid-drive models weigh between 45-55lb so the trade off for the improved balance of a mid-drive ebike is extra weight. FWIW I have a mid-drive 36v BBS01 motor on my DIY ebike I use to tow a 7yo on a WeeHoo trailer-cycle up hills so any mid-drive bike would provide ample assistance.

I actually ended up test-riding a few gazelles yesterday (It's what the shop carried), so I got a sense of how they work/feel. I keep thinking my needs are a little simpler than these mid-range bikes, but it's very hard to predict!

 

[ChrisM]

My experience test riding a Gazelle EasyFlow model with a Shimano Steps motor was the first time I rode an ebike with a torque sensor. My BBS01 has a cadence sensor so I was used to leaving my foot on the pedal when stopped and waiting at a light. The weight of my big foot on the pedal was enough to trigger the torque sensor to activate the motor and the first few times I found myself grabbing the brakes until I figured out what was happening.

I now have test-ridden a cannondale (neo compact), a few terns (I think the HSD and the GSD) and some gazelles, plus a surly (skid loader). Oh and today I rode a friends Spicy curry just for the experience. The cannondale definitely was jumpy underfoot, whereas the rest were much smoother.

 

[Dewey]

Great to test ride different models and get different data points for comparison. Another thought, do you have a Trek store near you? You might like to try out the Electra Loft Go and Trek Dual Sport+ models. They’re new for 2023 and both use the same 250w hub motor (40Nm) from a Taiwanese brand called Hyena, as fitted to the Electra Townie Go 7D which Court reviewed here. They are Class 1 models with a torque PAS sensor. The Dual Sport has hydraulic disk brakes, while the Townie and Loft models use mechanical disk brakes. All have small batteries (250wh) but as a result weigh around 45lb.

 

[ChrisM]

Great to test ride different models and get different data points for comparison. Another thought, do you have a Trek store near you? You might like to try out the Electra Loft Go and Trek Dual Sport+ models. They’re new for 2023 and both use the same 250w hub motor (40Nm) from a Taiwanese brand called Hyena, as fitted to the Electra Townie Go 7D which Court reviewed here. They are Class 1 models with a torque PAS sensor. The Dual Sport has hydraulic disk brakes, while the Townie and Loft models use mechanical disk brakes. All have small batteries (250wh) but as a result weigh around 45lb.

I like the lower weight, but I'm nervous about the motor, because I think my local shop may only work on a select few, which may end up being a limiting factor for me. I don't want to get stuck with significant travel if I have any electrical problems.

 

[Dewey]

Well your local bike shop has good taste, any Gazelle ebike will be great for your use case.