Now I get why people change the cassette

[FrankR]

I didn't get this when I first started, but now I am. Because I am not using most of the gears. Basically living exclusively with 6 and 7. 6 for a hill, 7 for everything else.

 

[rich c]

I don't get why people don't shift.

 

[FrankR]

Well, with an eBike, at least mine, on the lowest PA1, none of them are usable. Well, for starting, but after that, none of my riding would allow me to pedal in those lower gears.

 

[PedalUma]

It is a hub drive thing, a cadence sensor thing and a throttle bike thing. I wouldn't do that to my brother-in-law's Porsche. You got to shift or you will kill it. Swapping the chain ring for a larger one might help.

 

[stanmiller]

Definitely could try a larger chain ring up front.

I have a 42:tooth chain ring on my hub driven/cadence sensored/thumb-throttled 1x9 Electra Townie. The cassette goes from 11 to 36 teeth.

I'm constantly rolling through the gears though rarely get to the 36 out back.

 

[AHicks]

It's NOT just a hub drive thing. Mid drives with BIG power are really hard on the 11t gears (with resulting high chain wear), especially those frequently used at speeds over 15mph or so. That 11t gear just doesn't have the area/number of teeth to handle big power without a lot of wear. With a larger chain ring, you can avoid the use of that 11t gear while traveling at the same speed (or faster) than you were originally.

On a HUB drive that DOES NOT have an 11t gear (especially one with 20" tires), often you find yourself unable to stay up with the pedals at speeds as low as 14-15mph! Given my 'druthers, I'd go bigger ring gear, but there's not always room to do that - leaving little choice but to go with a freewheel that has an 11t gear.

 

[PedalUma]

That is right @AHicks. With an 11-T cog all of the pressure is focused on just five teeth at a time. So it is going to wear fast. On the larger cogs the force is distributed over a larger area. Small wheels will spin out. This week I did a 29er. With an 11-47 and a MTB narrow/wide 36-T chainring for big climbs.

 

[rich c]

Well, with an eBike, at least mine, on the lowest PA1, none of them are usable. Well, for starting, but after that, none of my riding would allow me to pedal in those lower gears.

Ever try to reprogram the controller?

 

[mschwett]

It's NOT just a hub drive thing. Mid drives with BIG power are really hard on the 11t gears (with resulting high chain wear), especially those frequently used at speeds over 15mph or so. That 11t gear just doesn't have the area/number of teeth to handle big power without a lot of wear. With a larger chain ring, you can avoid the use of that 11t gear while traveling at the same speed (or faster) than you were originally.

i’ve never quite understood this. a bike with a 48t up front and 11t in back will be going over 20mph by 60rpm and 28 by 80rpm. for the motor to even be working at those speeds, i assume we’re talking about class 3 bikes? or are people riding in their 11t and then leaving it in that gear to accelerate from a stop?

i’ve never ridden a “bike” with 1000+ watts but have about 10,000 miles on two bikes with 10t and 11t small cogs and they’re good as new.

 

[fooferdoggie]

i’ve never quite understood this. a bike with a 48t up front and 11t in back will be going over 20mph by 60rpm and 28 by 80rpm. for the motor to even be working at those speeds, i assume we’re talking about class 3 bikes? or are people riding in their 11t and then leaving it in that gear to accelerate from a stop?

most of the hub powered bike riders I see never shift (hell roadies don't either) they either use the throttle or depend on the cadence sensor to get them going. they peddle slowly the whole time.

 

[mschwett]

most of the hub powered bike riders I see never shift (hell roadies don't either) they either use the throttle or depend on the cadence sensor to get them going. they peddle slowly the whole time.

… but a hub powered bike wouldn’t wear the cassette! and there’s no way a casual rider trying to lug it out from a stop is putting down enough power to destroy a normal 11t cog. i thought it was a mid-drive issue?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I just don't get the 20" hub drive thing. I sometimes ride with a guy who has one and he's always in 7th gear and for the most part ghost pedaling.
I on the other hand ride my mid drive like a non ebike and pretty much roll through the gears as normal... Front/rear 46/13-28
Additionally I rarely get to seventh gear unless I'm above 20mph and the wear on the smallest gear is minimal to normal as I'm not going up hill and the motor is just feathering in some watts to help me maintain momentum/high cadence. If there is any prolonged resistance encountered to the point that extra force is being exerted on the small gear.. it's too much for my legs as well and that means I'm switching to a larger cog.
To me.. Y'all aints be biking

 

[AHicks]

Ever try to reprogram the controller?

Please supply a list of bikes that have a programmable controller able to change what you are talking about. Maybe just a couple? One?

i’ve never quite understood this. a bike with a 48t up front and 11t in back will be going over 20mph by 60rpm and 28 by 80rpm. for the motor to even be working at those speeds, i assume we’re talking about class 3 bikes? or are people riding in their 11t and then leaving it in that gear to accelerate from a stop?

i’ve never ridden a “bike” with 1000+ watts but have about 10,000 miles on two bikes with 10t and 11t small cogs and they’re good as new.

I consider "class of bike" talk a waste of time. Irrelevant.

OK some "real world"-
I have an Ultra powered bike that came with a 44t chain ring. I RARELY rode the bike in 1st through 3rd with that 44t in place. Yes, the bike accelerates from a stop just fine in 4th gear, using maybe 3-400 watts or less (of a possible 1600, so you can't say it's even close to straining a thing) I NEVER ride that bike over 20mph. That bike would be in the mid to high teens in 9th gear (the 11t). I switched to a 49t gear, and for all practical purposes, my use of gearing dropped by 1 across the entire range. It now uses 3rd through 8th to get the job done for me, and I still have the option of going bigger or smaller. Point being, my bike will not wear the chain as quickly as some using the 11t frequently, with no downside......

And before you get too carried away, the bike is generally ridden in PAS1 or PAS2 while pulling maybe 250 watts in cruise. Motor was reprogrammed using the updated Frey "Smooth" tune, making it's software easily on par with anything available.

Smaller mid drive motors won't wear those 11t gears for the same reason a hub drive won't - very little power going through them, or at least no more than the 11t can handle.

 

[AHicks]

I just don't get the 20" hub drive thing. I sometimes ride with a guy who has one and he's always in 7th gear and for the most part ghost pedaling.
I on the other hand ride my mid drive like a non ebike and pretty much roll through the gears as normal... Front/rear 46/13-28
Additionally I rarely get to seventh gear unless I'm above 20mph and the wear on the smallest gear is minimal to normal as I'm not going up hill and the motor is just feathering in some watts to help me maintain momentum/high cadence. If there is any prolonged resistance encountered to the point that extra force is being exerted on the small gear.. it's too much for my legs as well and that means I'm switching to a larger cog.
To me.. Y'all aints be biking

The early (2015/2016) RAD City bikes (a hub drive) had a 13t gear, no idea what was up front, but I could not keep up with the pedals at 15mph. These bikes had 26" wheels, came with 26x2.25 tires. Lot's of folks, myself included, were complaining about it in the RAD forum here on EBR. A guy wrote in saying he had changed his bike's freewheel to the 11t and it ended his problem. I tried it, and it ended mine. In 2017 (and later) Rad began shipping these bikes with the 11t gears. End of story.....

"Y'all aints be bikin"

I would disagree.... be bikin just fine.....

 

[Gionnirocket]

The early (2015/2016) RAD City bikes (a hub drive) had a 13t gear, no idea what was up front, but I could not keep up with the pedals at 15mph. These bikes had 26" wheels, came with 26x2.25 tires. Lot's of folks, myself included, were complaining about it in the RAD forum here on EBR. A guy wrote in saying he had changed his bike's freewheel to the 11t and it ended his problem. I tried it, and it ended mine. In 2017 (and later) Rad began shipping these bikes with the 11t gears. End of story.....

"Y'all aints be bikin"

I would disagree.... be bikin just fine.....

So you switched to 11t and then what? You used the top 3 gears to ghost pedal

 

[AHicks]

So you switched to 11t and then what? You used the top 3 gears to ghost pedal

??? Not seeing the humor. Thinking you're being silly, as the answer should be pretty clear.......

 

[Gionnirocket]

??? Not seeing the humor. Thinking you're being silly, as the answer should be pretty clear.......

There's biking and then there's being taken for a ride.
In my definition PAS is for assistance, not the main source of propulsion... ymmv

 

[mschwett]

Please supply a list of bikes that have a programmable controller able to change what you are talking about. Maybe just a couple? One?


I consider "class of bike" talk a waste of time. Irrelevant.

OK some "real world"-
I have an Ultra powered bike that came with a 44t chain ring. I RARELY rode the bike in 1st through 3rd with that 44t in place. Yes, the bike accelerates from a stop just fine in 4th gear, using maybe 3-400 watts or less (of a possible 1600, so you can't say it's even close to straining a thing) I NEVER ride that bike over 20mph. That bike would be in the mid to high teens in 9th gear (the 11t). I switched to a 49t gear, and for all practical purposes, my use of gearing dropped by 1 across the entire range. It now uses 3rd through 8th to get the job done for me, and I still have the option of going bigger or smaller. Point being, my bike will not wear the chain as quickly as some using the 11t frequently, with no downside......

And before you get too carried away, the bike is generally ridden in PAS1 or PAS2 while pulling maybe 250 watts in cruise. Motor was reprogrammed using the updated Frey "Smooth" tune, making it's software easily on par with anything available.

Smaller mid drive motors won't wear those 11t gears for the same reason a hub drive won't - very little power going through them, or at least no more than the 11t can handle.

so as the bike came stock, did you wear/destroy the 11t cog really quickly?

i agree that it seems like the gearing on many of these bikes is inappropriate, high-power mid-drive or not. the lowest couple gears on a bike are not for accelerating from a stop - they're for going up really steep hills! most cyclists don't touch those gears at all in day to day use on flat roads. similarly the highest are for steady state cruising at high speed. but the idea of adjusting the gearing so that you never use one of the gears does seem very odd. serious/professional cyclists put 500-1000w through their 11t and 10t cogs all the time and as long as they don't shift while doing so, they last just fine. i'm guessing if someone started out in the 15-17-19-21 range, got to 10-15mph, shifted properly into the 11 (meaning not while under full load!) and then stayed there for riding at 20+mph (which is what such a small cog is designed for) they'd last a long time.

 

[PedalUma]

This is a Box 3, 9-sp, 11-47 in the thumbnail. The ring is 42 on this one with 90Nm. The 9 chain is much wider than an 11 for more robust usage but with a similar gear range. E-11 chains are super expensive and cause focused pressure like being stepped on by a stiletto heal.

 

[AHicks]

There's biking and then there's being taken for a ride.
In my definition PAS is for assistance, not the main source of propulsion... ymmv

I agree. The level of PAS selected is about how much assistance you're seeking. No clue what you are thinking of. If you have something to say, stop playing games and say it!