"No fair." In so many ways!
- Thread starter ebikemom
- Start date
Funny! As a rider who also does 4,000-6,000 miles a year without e assist, I wish they would say that to me when I'm struggling to hold the wheel of younger and faster cheetahs.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Maybe just say "Hello!"
Yes, a simple hello is certainly reasonable. And I tend to slow down from my 28mph top speed just to minimize the disparity. As a regular roadie I'm sensitive to the acceptance of ebikes and how we all coexist. Maybe too much?
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
I have a different view. If I m on a multiple use trail, walkers, skaters, bikers, et al, I’d NEVER RIDE over 12-15mph. Maybe slower on a busy day. A quiet time with few walkers, but mostly Lycra wankers on road bikes, I smile say “on your left, and buzz them. Only after a couple of warning bells. Riders on paths without polite warning bells are a danger. The surest way to bring on speed rules is to frighten or intimidate other users.
Totally agree Thomas. My 28mph riding is on the shoulder of a 55mph straight road. I'm an ardent supporter of peaceful coexistence on shared spaces where families, walkers, etc. might be enjoying the day in their own way.
Let me try again. I live in Boulder, Colorado where there are literally thousands of riders out every day on the roads. I am an avid cyclist and I'm often on my road or gravel human powered bike for recreation and sport. But I commute 15-20 miles per day on an ebike that can go 28 mph if conditions allow. Since ebikes are still a new phenomenon, even in Boulder, I want to make a good impression when I pass riders that are self-powered. I have always been one to offer a greeting to other riders and want to continue to do so. But the disparity with battery powered and human powered bikes is significant where 28mph is allowed. As a result, I'm just asking if anyone has found a universal greeting that helps to connect the ebike rider with the human powered rider in a positive way. I understand all of the ways it can go wrong, looking for how to improve that.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Maybe some perspective is in order... I have been on e-bikes for just about two years. In that time I've gone on multiple adventures, including bicycle tours in Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia, and bike-skiing adventures and gravel rides closer to home. Where I live is a very outdoorsy community with a lot of hardcore super-athletes (there are families here that do 40-50 mile trail runs as a Sunday activity). Many cyclists from the Pugetopolis come here to ride on weekends and for vacations (a fairly popular mountain bike route goes by my house, and the ACA Trans Am Northern Tier Bike Route goes through the nearest town).
With all that, I've never had a negative or snarky comment from another cyclist.
The only time I had someone say "That's cheating" was from a motorist who saw my bike. Since I had ridden almost 60 miles so far that day and had at least a dozen to go I just politely asked him how far he'd ridden that day. He didn't even own a bike. Jerk.
I think it comes down to being positive, friendly, and giving off good vibes. If you do that decent people will be nice back to you.
With all that, I've never had a negative or snarky comment from another cyclist.
The only time I had someone say "That's cheating" was from a motorist who saw my bike. Since I had ridden almost 60 miles so far that day and had at least a dozen to go I just politely asked him how far he'd ridden that day. He didn't even own a bike. Jerk.
I think it comes down to being positive, friendly, and giving off good vibes. If you do that decent people will be nice back to you.
Agree Mr. Coffee!
DouglasB
Active Member
I ride both a road and an e-bike. In the only close encounter I have had with road cyclists on my e-bike, they thought we were a couple of old folks out for a casual spin on our mountain bikes. They passed us like a well oiled, Tour de France team and were quite supprised when we kicked it into "Turbo" and left them in the dust at 26 mph. My wife said that, as she passed them, one of the riders looked at the other with a supprise and the other rider quickly replied "e-bikes!"
Perhaps next time you could keep riding at the same pace and not create a race / battle of egos / another nail in the coffin of ebike acceptance ? I'm assuming that prior to being passed you were perfectly happy at the speed you were travelling? Did they antagonise you in any way that justified a change of pace?
I'm sorry if this sounds confrontational, but just because you can doesn't mean you should.
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
I do a few things to avoid confrontations with other bikers. Sometimes when I'm catching up to someone on the trail, I'll stop, take a sip of water, stretch my legs, admire the view and maybe take a few pictures. It's surprising how far ahead they get in just a few minutes. If they are going fast enough, I'll slow down and match their speed without overtaking them. Obviously this isn't practical on a crowded trail. I usually ride during off peak times so this works for me.
I ride a stealthy bike which most don't spot as an ebike. It's hub motor is smaller than the large cassette sprocket so it isn't noticeable and I use panniers to cover the rack mount battery.
When I do overtake someone, I approach slowly, reduce the PAS and pass at a slow speed so it's obvious that I'm pedaling.
I usually don't ride fast, perhaps 10 - 12 mph. I prefer to enjoy the ride rather than see how fast I can do it. Occasionally, someone will overtake me. When this happens, I slow down and let them pass without making a race out of it.
I'm always courteous to people I meet and treat them as I would have them treat me.
IMO, us seniors get a bit of a break from the snark. On the rare occasion when someone does make a negative comment, my reply is "It beats a wheelchair".
I ride a stealthy bike which most don't spot as an ebike. It's hub motor is smaller than the large cassette sprocket so it isn't noticeable and I use panniers to cover the rack mount battery.
When I do overtake someone, I approach slowly, reduce the PAS and pass at a slow speed so it's obvious that I'm pedaling.
I usually don't ride fast, perhaps 10 - 12 mph. I prefer to enjoy the ride rather than see how fast I can do it. Occasionally, someone will overtake me. When this happens, I slow down and let them pass without making a race out of it.
I'm always courteous to people I meet and treat them as I would have them treat me.
IMO, us seniors get a bit of a break from the snark. On the rare occasion when someone does make a negative comment, my reply is "It beats a wheelchair".
Thanks everyone. I didn't come up with the answer to the original question about the best way to greet non-assist riders as you pass them in order to either avoid a negative peception or advance the bond between two wheelers of both types, but I did learn that ebikers are a thoughtful lot and take their responsibility to share paths and roads with others seriously. Glad to be a part of that club!
DouglasB
Active Member
It was a natural response that many of us have. I'm sure they were feeling the same urge when they passed me. I took it all in good spirits and hope they did the same.
JimFMB
Active Member
I was loading my bike at the store when an older fella (well older than me) came up and said I was cheating. I laughed and asked how many gears he had on his bike, and he replied that he had 21. I told him that’s cheating since I only have 8. He smiled, laughed and walked away. No hard feelings.
JimFMB, one of the greetings I've tried out is to offer up "Yeah, I know, I'm cheating." as I go past riders without epower on the roads. Usually gets a smile, especially if I just ease past them and don't just blow their doors off. Thankfully, most of my riding on my ebike by time and location does not have me dealing with packs of riders in full regalia. It's easier to address 1 or 2 than a group of 20.
christob
Well-Known Member
I had my first encounter with such a group -- but no conversation was had, so not a snark exchange! But that could've been because of my own choices/actions...
It was a big group on perhaps a training ride, or at least a (serious-focus) social ride... easily 2 dozen, all men. They were riding a very popular 3-mile one-way street that is almost always quiet and largely flat, which I often include in my routes. It was an amazingly blustery day, for which I'm always glad to have higher levels of Assist waiting in the wings... And for the section biking into the wind, they were moving slower than I'd normally see a group like that -- usually groups like this are clipping along a solid 20+mph pace.
They were biking 4 abreast in the right lane, even spilling into the left lane quite a bit (this is a 2-lane, one-way street) and all of them constantly talking, gesticulating, etc. It irks me when cyclists (and especially in large groups) don't follow the traffic rules of the road, but I kept utterly quiet about that here... I came up behind them and figured I shouldn't attempt passing since it would put me in what was, ostensibly, the lane we're all sort of meant to leave free for cars to pass us. And I figured I might get some snark passing 2 dozen kitted-out racers; I was in no rush (a weekend ride) so I just tailed them the whole way.
As we rounded the bend, the wind now at our backs, they stepped up to about 19-21mph in the same sprawling group format. I kept up and even at one point ended up more or less on parallel with the rearmost riders, although they were so deep in their conversations I have no idea if they even noticed me. (If they did -- kudos for no snark! I'll take being socially ignored as an ebiker by them, vs insults, any day!) We approached the all-way Stop intersection, which (cough-cough, ahem, naturally!) none of them slowed down for as they flew through a right-turn en-masse. At that point I peeled off and took the other direction, solo.
I've wondered what might have happened, had I chosen to pass all those serious men with ease -- My Level 5 on a flat -- watch out!! It makes me utterly nervous to go that fast, myself! But my experience is, generally, male riders have the more fragile egos when it comes to taking instant offense at say, something as logically inoffensive as being passed. (But, we see it in car drivers too, every day... a weird, 'always-me-first' kind of tick in the human psyche...?) I stayed in Assist Level 1 probably 85% of the 3 miles, with a few dips into Level 2 when the slight grades at the middle were taking their toll on me -- I enjoyed having to put in a bit more pedal effort to keep pace with them (I have no throttle, so I always have pedaling going on) than I would have ordinarily if I were riding the 3 miles at my usual ~15mph clip.
As a general rule, anyone I pass on trails (mostly analog bikers) I try to remember to offer a cheery "good morning" style greeting. I give a smile and quick head-nod to oncoming cyclists as well, when the trails aren't terribly crowded, at least. Alas, in the majority of cases none of these simple civilities get returned (though it is hard to tell how much headphones could be at play here, blocking out my verbal greetings.) I also tend to think that an oncoming lycra-clad roadie, seeing me approach in a legit Gore jacket but wearing flapping khaki pants, likely dismisses me outright...
Still, on the flip side of this kind of not-insulting, but also not-approachable behavior, when I'm stopped trail-side to pick up litter (something I've taken to doing this month on all my dry commutes home) -- some cyclists (again mostly analog since there are so many more of those bikes) do slow down and ask "everything ok?" not realizing I'm just picking up trash. So -- as with all folks, very hard to lump all riders into a single bucket of behavior. And because of that, you can't reliably err on the side of "all cyclists are friendly and civil all the time" ... So I can't assume my "good morning!" greeting, sincerely offered, if passing a sensitive rider who resents ebikes, wouldn't be construed as some kind of mocking / belittling form of snarky-ness from me, provoking a response...!
Great story christob. I'm often in packs like the one you describe as I ride with a number of groups of trained cyclists (even though I'm now 65). I'm very familiar with the behaviors you describe, that's an ongoing concern. Also on the flip side of that I am part of Cyclists 4 Community, a local safety-oriented cycling organization here in Boulder where cyclists contribute actively to bike safety and other community welfare programs. We all look forward to a day where cyclists and drivers and walkers can safely coexist.
Credible Hulk
Active Member
When I used to ride my scooter on bike lanes (I wasn't allowed on any other bike infrastructure) I'd get dirty looks from cyclists I passed, but I never heard anything. I got a lot more negative reactions from drivers. When I used to do a lot of roading as a teenager the thing I hated most was vehicles coming up behind me and blasting their horns. They were doing it to warn me that they were there, without realizing how loud their horns are to a cyclist. A few times I almost ran off the road from being startled.
My scooter had a loud piercing horn as well. I believe in letting cyclists know when I'm coming up behind them preparing to pass, but I didn't want to startle them with my scooter horn. So, I went to the dollar store and bought a little toy horn, the kind that's curly and has a rubber bulb. I mounted this on my handlebars and that's what I'd use to warn cyclists I was coming. It sounds like a goofy clown horn but that's fine, because it doesn't sound threatening and it's not too loud. When I was coming up behind a cyclist I'd toot my clown horn and call out "passing on your left!" I'd wave at them and smile, either as I was passing or after I was ahead of them. They seemed to be ok with this, in fact many would smile and I'd toot the clown horn again. Sometimes if I was stopped at a light and saw a child standing on the corner, I'd toot and wave and they'd laugh.
When I get my new ebike I think I'll use the clown horn again. It comes with a little bell, but the horn is more fun.
My scooter had a loud piercing horn as well. I believe in letting cyclists know when I'm coming up behind them preparing to pass, but I didn't want to startle them with my scooter horn. So, I went to the dollar store and bought a little toy horn, the kind that's curly and has a rubber bulb. I mounted this on my handlebars and that's what I'd use to warn cyclists I was coming. It sounds like a goofy clown horn but that's fine, because it doesn't sound threatening and it's not too loud. When I was coming up behind a cyclist I'd toot my clown horn and call out "passing on your left!" I'd wave at them and smile, either as I was passing or after I was ahead of them. They seemed to be ok with this, in fact many would smile and I'd toot the clown horn again. Sometimes if I was stopped at a light and saw a child standing on the corner, I'd toot and wave and they'd laugh.
When I get my new ebike I think I'll use the clown horn again. It comes with a little bell, but the horn is more fun.
bob armani
Well-Known Member
Mine would read, "Because I want to ride as fast as when I was 25 years old."
No kidding. At 25yo, ripping along like Andretti in the final lap without much exhaustion at all. Now, sluggish and slow on a dino-bike with tired legs after about the 1st lap. I guess we are all really getting up there. God Bless E-bikes to rekindle our youth. Ride safe and hello fun!
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