Newbie looking for 1st E-Bike.

[goducks21]

Browsing the net looking at e-bikes. Holy cow they're $$$$. Is this a bad time to buy? We're RV'ers and the same thing is going on with RV's. Prices are jacked up big time. Not going to get into bike types or that stuff yet but would it be better to wait till next year to buy with the possibility of a 15% rebate? Or will prices be 15% higher in Mar 2022?
Just looking at how things are trending.
Thanks

 

[Catalyzt]

I'm still pretty new to this myself, and I don't think anyone has a crystal ball, but it does seem like supply chain and delivery issues are not resolving anytime soon, and inflation is probably here to stay for a while. For example, my 2016 MX5 needs a high pressure fuel pump-- and Mazda has no ETA on when it might be available. Probably months. Lucky I have a second car!

Yes, it is a bad time to buy, but yes, I think the odds tilt somewhat towards the situation getting worse. I got both my bikes when the situation was ramping up; my solution was to get one DIY, and then later a second bike that's a lesser-known but respected brand (Motobecane) which still uses a high-quality frame and parts. My DIY was about $700 (to convert a 25-year-old bike) and the second one was $2,000 stock + about $500 in assembly and mods.

It was a stretch financially to buy two bikes for a total of $3,200, but so far, I've been able to figure it so only one of them is in the shop at a time. (The DIY blew a controller, the Motobecane has needed only routine maintenance.) I'm sort of a 'light prepper' type, so I like the idea of having emergency transportation in case there's a more serious shortage-- like gasoline. (Not really expecting that, but still.)

I think they are a good investment. For an RV'er, I'd avoid the folding bikes unless that's really what you're crazy about and you get one with an outstanding reputation. Since you have the hauling capacity and can mount a sturdy rack, I'd look at full-size bikes in the 45 to 55 pound range, if you are in good enough shape to lift them on and off a rack. In terms of what to get, (which I know you didn't ask) that really depends on what kind of riding you plan to do. Best of luck! It's a journey, for sure. Took me months to decide on each of my bikes.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Browsing the net looking at e-bikes. Holy cow they're $$$$. Is this a bad time to buy? We're RV'ers and the same thing is going on with RV's. Prices are jacked up big time. Not going to get into bike types or that stuff yet but would it be better to wait till next year to buy with the possibility of a 15% rebate? Or will prices be 15% higher in Mar 2022?
Just looking at how things are trending.
Thanks

Give us a price range of the e-bikes you've looked at or should I say might consider. Is this your first time looking prices of e-bikes ?
I don't believe bike shops are raising prices. Most if not nearly all dealers don't have bikes to sell. I was in a large Multi-store
bike shop here in CT the other day. They are dealers for all the major brands, but had no bikes or should I say only a hand full.

The Manager said he doesn't expect thing to turn around until the Spring of 2023. As for when to buy, If you find a bike you like, buy it.
Once the market starts to open and bikes begin arriving in shops, my guess they will fly right out the door from the pent up demand.

Good luck

 

[Katzenjammer]

Trying to time the market for anything is a crap shoot - you could wait forever trying to hit the best possible time to buy. If you find one you like, I'd say buy it.

 

[goducks21]

Thanks for the replies.
Back story 1st. Wife is 65, I'm 68. we're both in pretty good shape and currently ride a couple Giant MTB. Cheaper Talons but we're not stupid crazy out on trails either so they've held up great for 3 riding seasons. We also have a couple of older Trek hybrids that we beat the bleep out of riding trails before we got the Giants. They've also held up pretty good but are feeling old.
We like riding easy to moderate single tracks and any types of dirt/gravel fire roads. We do have a trail system we ride near Sisters Or thats got a lot of big rocks and is pretty technical so we need something thats able to withstand occasional harder trail rides.
As we've gotten older it's harder to ride dirt trails like we used to without being exhausted after two hours and if there's still time left in the day we don't feel like heading out again. So we're looking at E-bikes to help us extend our ride times. We are strictly recreational riders as we're both retired.
We ride a mix of roads and dirt trails.
Both are in the 5'5"-5'6" range and 130-150 lbs.

I've been looking at E-bikes in the $2,000 each range and don't want to go over if possible. Been looking at the Himiway Cruiser, Aventon Adventure and the Rad Power 6 Plus and the Juice Rip Currant along with others of the same style.
Wants are hydraulic brakes, 750W 48V and at least 14AH battery and torque sensor. Probably will have a hard time getting a torque sensor in the price point. Not sure on the fat tire thing and would be open to something with at least a 26x2.2 tire. We currently just pump our MTB tires up to 60 psi and they work okay for the most part on strictly pavement rides. Our older Treks have rim brakes and are worn out enough that they're not as fun to ride on the road so we hardly use them.
We want to extend our riding to longer rides like 40+ RT. Currently we are done at around 20-25 RT. 40 psi on MTB tires on a mix of pavement and dirt wears on us. We want to branch out and do more longer road rides so I'm guessing fat tires are not the best for that.
Would love a mid mount motor MTB but they're too much $$$$. I've also looked into converting our MTN bikes but being new to E-bikes it's all a learning process and understanding exactly what I need is material for another post.
Anyway thats our thought process at this time.

 

[indianajo]

You're in Oregon, so you have to know geared hub motor bikes won't climb 1000' in 30 minutes. No trips to the top of the mountain. Or take 3 hours to cool down going up. They will burn up on a direct slow grind up a grade. OTOH I climb 80 hills with one in 30 miles weekly, but only have a 200' overall rise.
Fat tires are easy on the hips but hard on the legs or battery. Your choices seem to lean to 4" tire bikes, which are great on beach sand and powder snow. Note the Rad 6 has estimated range of 25 miles out of 14 AH, which is poor. I'd lean more to 2.1" or 2.3" tires if the fenders will allow it, but you've been there, done that. I use 60 psi if I'm carrying max load of cargo, else about 45. I don't ride a lot of gravel. The way to get good ride without burning up watthours is full suspension, and/or front suspension plus a suspension seatpost.
If you're near a Rad store front, then their internet sales model is not a problem. Read the brand forum "known problems" thread on each brand. Aventon has dealers, juiced most certainly does not. At this price point you're going from a drum brake Buick (giant, trek) to a Yugo in terms of quality parts. The profit on these cheap bikes is made on stretchy spokes & rims, stretchy cables, dodgy seat clamps and other boring parts that require constant adjustment or replacement. Brands that have shorter complaint threads compared to market share are trek, giant, cannondale, pedego, kona, gazelle, reiss & Mueller. All those have dealers. All cost more.
I paid $2000 for a bike without power, and the wheels, spokes, cables, shifters, have been zero problems. Some country of origin, different grade of steel or aluminum. Well, I wore out a front shifter (sram, pivots) in 7000 miles. I'd say that is okay. Coming from kiddie MTB's, Diamondback & Pacific, that required constant brake & shifter adjustment, wheel trueing, broke an axle (shimano 6 sprocket) & stranded me after dropping the balls (shimano 7 sprocket). That's the level of parts I was used to. I spent $840 adding power for those days when a 25 mph headwind would increase my 30 mile commute to a 6 hour 130-140 bpm ordeal. I can't recommend it to you, you don't want a cargo bike.

 

[goducks21]

Actually our Giants (Talon-Liv) have decent Acera derailleurs and Tektro hydraulic disks. Never had a brake issue and the shimano's have been pretty reliable with only a couple tweaks every year. Spokes are 14g so thats iffy. But again we're not jumping and we are on the light side.
not sold on 4", thats just kinda where we started. I don't have any E-bike shops in my town so I need to drive 40-55 mins to test ride or kick tires. Which we plan on doing in a week or so. I would really like to stick with 26-27.5x2.2-2-5? tires. Current bike MTB have 26x2.2 and they're great for our riding style.
We don't do 1,000' climbs, most of our climbs are in the 150' to 500' spread out over 1-5 miles. There are some short steep sections that an E-bike would really help. What I would like to do is be able to pedal with 0-1 PAS and when we need boost kick it up to 4 or 5. The skinnier 26x2.2 tires we have work well in that situation. Without riding one I have no idea if these bikes are okay to pedal with 0 PAS. Are they slugs with 0 PAS?
It's a whole new world when looking at E-bikes and right now we're just trying to soak up any pro's and con's.

 

[indianajo]

The gauge of spokes doesn't matter, it is whether they are made of scrap metal or steel. The tensile strength of a copper/brass/lead/tin/zinc/ferrous grey metal spoke is totally different that that of a DT Swiss US made spoke. There are some good ****ese spokes, 14 ga, yuba bought some on my bike. No wheel trueing in 7800 miles. There are some *****y ones, as came on my Diamondback & Pacific $229 bikes. Rad & Aventon have had a lot of complaints of loose or broken spokes, see the brand thread. Same with the stretchiness of grocery store cables, versus Jaguar or Clarks. The settings stay put on my yuba, not on the previous. BTW, cable pull mechanical disk brakes are fine @ 330 lb (I carry groceries) with slick stainless Jaguar or clarks cables (no drag) and 5" brake handles. 3 1/2" handles on brakes are sold to make you want the $100 more hydraulic ones. I adjust the front pad twice a year or ~1000 miles. BTW I weighed 180 lb when the spokes & wheels were causing trouble on my cheap MTB's, and 160 lb now. Huge people and those that jump curbs & picnic tables will have more spoke & wheel maintenance.
With a geared hub motor on the rear you won't have to worry about a shimano 7 speed coming unscrewed and dropping balls, stranding you. Stupid cheap design without a locknut or race machined out of a solid axle. The 8 speed shimano axle on my yuba has been zero trouble. Different market, different price point. The axle of a geared hub motor is made by the motor vendor, & I haven't heard of them screwing it up. The covers of geared hub motors do come unscrewed, retorque occasionally especially if you hear clicking noises. Carry a 3 or 4 mm allen wrench.
Geared hub motors don't drag unpowered, I ride mine 80% that way. They do weigh 7-10 lb and the battery is 7 or so. Weight doesn't slow me down near as much as wind. I had a DD hub motor for a while; that slowed me down unpowered about like riding in 2 sprockets higher than I actually was. Only DD motor sold much now is the Rad City. Mid drives that don't drag unpowered are Yamaha, Shimano steps, Brose, most expensive (of 4 lines) Bosch. Other mid drives you drag the motor unpowered with your feet.
Because of the warrenty problem of mountain climbing, you may not find many geared hub motor bikes in Oregon. If I ran a bike shop there I wouldn't carry them. Purchaser climbs a mountain, burns a motor, whoops, warrenty problem. Note exterior case temperature of a geared hub motor doesn't reflect what is going on inside. The case is not connected to the windings.

 

[AHicks]

Actually our Giants (Talon-Liv) have decent Acera derailleurs and Tektro hydraulic disks. Never had a brake issue and the shimano's have been pretty reliable with only a couple tweaks every year. Spokes are 14g so thats iffy. But again we're not jumping and we are on the light side.
not sold on 4", thats just kinda where we started. I don't have any E-bike shops in my town so I need to drive 40-55 mins to test ride or kick tires. Which we plan on doing in a week or so. I would really like to stick with 26-27.5x2.2-2-5? tires. Current bike MTB have 26x2.2 and they're great for our riding style.
We don't do 1,000' climbs, most of our climbs are in the 150' to 500' spread out over 1-5 miles. There are some short steep sections that an E-bike would really help. What I would like to do is be able to pedal with 0-1 PAS and when we need boost kick it up to 4 or 5. The skinnier 26x2.2 tires we have work well in that situation. Without riding one I have no idea if these bikes are okay to pedal with 0 PAS. Are they slugs with 0 PAS?
It's a whole new world when looking at E-bikes and right now we're just trying to soak up any pro's and con's.

I can share that I bought a bike with 4" tires to see what all the talk was about. I ride mostly paved surfaces, but like nothing better than to get off on some single track or fire road on occasion for some exploring (even though that's a low percentage of total ride time). The fatty's didn't work out for me. Way too much rolling resistance, and they just feel huge. Not my cup of tea.....

Getting older too (I'm 70) so the wife (a very fit 72) and I don't care for all of the vibration/feed back to our wrists coming from high pressure tires - including the 4" when run at max inflation. Front suspension helps, but the feedback is still very apparent. After messing with a couple of different tires/sizes, I've discovered the benefits of the 27.5x2.4" tires. The Schwalbe balloon types (eg Super Mot-X, Big Ben) in that size and similar, allow very low psi for a great ride (VERY noticeable), with low rolling resistance, while offering Schwalbe's great flat resistance. They're a great compromise, for my purposes anyway. They even do well in moderate amounts of sand (especially as compared to 2" tires).

As far as hub vs. mid drive, I have and enjoy both. For serious hills that are going to take several minutes to climb, the mid drives are the plan. If there's an issue with them, just like an analog bike, they need to be ridden with a little finesse. For jump on and go easy (brain dead) riding, the geared hub drives really shine. Sporty performance, good acceleration from a stop, and decent climbing power, as long as they won't be required to do that long enough to overheat them. They are seriously fun for anyone that can ride a bike.

As far as budget, have you seen the Rize MD series? They're a little over the 2000 budget, but they offer a pretty decent bike with no proprietary parts and the nearly bulletproof Bafang BBS02 motor. Available in step over and step through. IMHO worth checking out if you haven't already.

Master Every Terrain with Rize MD eBike | Ultimate Adventure Companion

Unlock the full potential of your adventures with the Rize MD eBike. Designed for stability, comfort, and versatility, it's perfect for conquering any terrain. Double your exploration range with our Dual Battery. Start your limitless journey today!

rizebikes.ca

 

[Cstefan]

The REI Co-op cycles CTY 2.1 is a mid-drive with Shimano Steps that retails for $1999. It looks like a nice build for the price.

 

[Catalyzt]

The REI Co-op cycles CTY 2.1 is a mid-drive with Shimano Steps that retails for $1999. It looks like a nice build for the price.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. Goducks, you and your wife sound like you are pretty fit, I bet you don't need 750 Watts, particularly if you are not doing a lot of hills! That REI Co-op is 50 pounds with the E5000, and if you guys weigh under 150, and aren't doing serious hills, you'll be totally fine with a bike like that.

My bike-- pictured in my Avatar-- is a Motobecane Ultra e-Adventure, which weighed 49 pounds stock in a large size, has full suspension, and lists for $2,000 (when it is in stock, which, unfortunately it is not right now.) They are available through Bikes Direct, an online retailer.)

A few other things: I dropped down to 2.2 Maxxis tubeless tires (from 2.4 stock) and got a lighter saddle, got the large down to 46 pounds, and none of my rides are LESS than 1000 feet. With a 418 Wh battery, I have a range of about 40 miles with 4,000 feet of vertical-- yes, that would take some effort with only an E5000. With only 1,000 feet of vertical, I'm sure you could do 60 miles, maybe considerably more.

But to address your specific concerns, I find it's not very hard on the hands and joints even at 50 PSI-- I know the suspension is for traction, not comfort, but OMG it's so much more comfortable than my lighter kit e-bike with only seatpost and stem suspension.

And as for how well it moves at 0 PAS? I find if I've just come down a hill, the rolling resistance is so low that for a mile or so, I might keep the motor off completely, though generally I will eventually go back to ECO. (The E5000 only has three levels of assist, ECO, NORM, and HIGH). And cresting a hill, hold on to the bars tight-- after riding my unassisted Raleigh Competition and a Rossignol e-bike with an e8000 on vacation, I was shocked at how quickly my Motobecane accelerated.

For you guys, riding a medium or a small? With no mods, I bet the bike would be 46 or 47 pounds stock right at your price point, $2,000. And with the mods I did, you'd have a 44 pound full suspension e-bike for 2,500.

I bet your journey would be like mine-- you wouldn't plan to do rides with 3,000-4,000 vertical.

But it would just happen.