New TQ Motor

C

Calcoaster

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
TQ just announced an updated motor, the TQ HPR 60. It takes the HPR50 specs up from 50nm, 300W peak to 60nm, 350W peak. Also “two battery options: 290Wh or 580Wh. Their promo says the new motor has improved cooling, efficiency, less noise and ”takes up the same space” as the HPR50. So far it’s just in one Mt. Bike, a Yeti. It will be interesting to see where and how it’s used in upcoming models. My HPR50 is so quiet already its hard to imagine even less noise, but that is better than the alternative!
 
The Pinarello Nytro uses the TQ HPR50. I'm sure that they'll jump on the HPR60. The large battery, not sure.
 
Yeah, I’m thinking they’ll use the smaller battery on the lightweight road bikes and the larger ones on mt. bikes. I’m curious about their claimed efficiency improvement but my BMC with the hpr50 gives me more range than I could ever use in one ride and I’ve never even used more than half the available power. It’s always fun to watch the improvements that a next gen bike could get, but I’m totally happy with my current bike and its silent motor.
 
I have a BMC roadmachine 01 Amp X two. It uses the hpr50 system and a typical ride for me is 25-45 miles, rolling hills with a few climbs. On most rides I use one percent or less battery per mile, but I tuned both eco and mid level down and I turn the assist off for 20% or so of most rides. I only use the mid level for short climbs or big headwinds and I never use turbo. That makes my rides average speed around 16mph, as compared to 13-14 for the same ride without any motor help. Same exertion level but longer rides and more fun than without the motor assist. I’ve never even used half of my available battery on a ride and I don’t think I’ll ever ride far enough in a day to use much more than that.
 
I‘ve been reading that some mt. Bikers with the HPR50 have had them replaced with hpr60 motors. It seems that the only difference in fit between the two is that the hpr60 has bolt-on heat sink fins that could make it hard to fit the motor cover over, at least on some brands. Some say that the hpr60 power is being limited to 300 W (down from the 350 they are rated for) and it may be because it‘s expected that the user will remove the fins in order to fit it in their older bikes. Another rider showed his modified motor cover that fits the new motor with the heat sink fins in place. He just cut a window in the bottom of the plastic cover to expose the fins.

The word from these users is they find a noticeable increase in torque and they claim the better efficiency gives battery battery life even with the increased power (or torque, support, or whatever words used to indicate a stronger motor). They also say it’s quieter.

This is just the consensus from a handful of riders but I sure do give TQ a big thumbs up for making their upgrade motor backwards compatible with their current one! That was a big disappointment with Specialized when they rolled out their 1.2SL and said it wouldn’t fit as a replacement for the 1.1. More profits in selling a new bike rather than a replacement motor, I guess. But TQ sure wins (for me) in the brand loyalty category.
 
I'm reading the same things that you are. Most of those riders have Trek Fuel+ emtb's and reside outside the USA. From what they are saying, any bike with a HPR50 that is upgraded to the HPR60 will be power limited to 300w based on the bike's serial number, whether the fins are installed or not. This is also not configurable with the service dongle. So there is increased torque, but no change in maximum power.
 
stompandgo said:
So there is increased torque, but no change in maximum power.
Click to expand...
You cannot increase torque without increasing the power (at the same reference angular speed). The de-rated HPR 60 will have the same torque as HPR 50.

At the industry standard of 6.28 rad/s, 300 W mechanical produces 47.8 Nm. 350 W gives 55.7 Nm.

The torque values given by manufacturers are just a marketing thing.

To compare, the Specialized SL 1.2 motor of 320 W produces the torque of 51 Nm, which is the most honest for the advertised torque of 50 Nm.
 
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I understand the mechanical math. I'm talking about the manufacturer's claims. The motor will be detuned to 300w maximum and cannot be adjusted. At least, that is the word on the street. Once I get my dongle registered, I should be able to get the truth straight from TQ.
 
Just a slight aside, but I was talking with the HPR40 product manager at TQ and asked her whether a full-power TQ was in development. She said she couldn’t say, but then mentioned that there were ‘exciting new developments in the pipeline’. You read it here first! Of course, it could be a new battery-motor connector or somesuch…
 
Yako said:
Just a slight aside, but I was talking with the HPR40 product manager at TQ and asked her whether a full-power TQ was in development. She said she couldn’t say, but then mentioned that there were ‘exciting new developments in the pipeline’. You read it here first! Of course, it could be a new battery-motor connector or somesuch…
Click to expand...
That’ll surely be exciting to the US-based members.
 
I know you guys will be excited too…but I have TQ’s ‘Frankenbike’ HPR60 test-bed bike in my store room…it’s a Domane+ SLR6 but with extras. TQ have sent it to me to review their new ‘60.
The ‘60 had been retrofitted into an older bike originally fitted with the 50, so without the new heat fins as per all upgrades, BUT also not restricted to 300w either. Possibly even more ‘I was in geek-heaven‘ than that…I have had a long phone chat with Daniel Thiel, TQ’s head of e-mobility (?)…not a manager, but the chief engineer. He’s in all of TQ’s vids about the 40 and 60, if you’ve seen them. He walked me through all of the improvements they’ve made to the 50 to reach the 60. Much of it was dealing with heat-dissipation, but (I thought) fascinatingly, the heat fins account for no more than 30% of the improvements they’ve made. The rest is down to internal spaces, changes of materials for the motor and bearings, and lubes.
I’ve already had a spin (actually a long climb in 29c) and it’s pretty amazing. Loads of power (it could feel like cheating to many roadies). It’s considerably more ‘e-bike’ than the (frankly, for me, perfect) HPR40, who’s greatest feat I feel was to make you believe you weren’t even RIDING an e-bike.
If you have anything you think would be a good test, or questions to ask (or answer!)while I have this bike, fire away. It’ll make for more interesting/informed vids and your help will be acknowledged in the video.
 
Yako said:
I know you guys will be excited too…but I have TQ’s ‘Frankenbike’ HPR60 test-bed bike in my store room…it’s a Domane+ SLR6 but with extras. TQ have sent it to me to review their new ‘60.
The ‘60 had been retrofitted into an older bike originally fitted with the 50, so without the new heat fins as per all upgrades, BUT also not restricted to 300w either. Possibly even more ‘I was in geek-heaven‘ than that…I have had a long phone chat with Daniel Thiel, TQ’s head of e-mobility (?)…not a manager, but the chief engineer. He’s in all of TQ’s vids about the 40 and 60, if you’ve seen them. He walked me through all of the improvements they’ve made to the 50 to reach the 60. Much of it was dealing with heat-dissipation, but (I thought) fascinatingly, the heat fins account for no more than 30% of the improvements they’ve made. The rest is down to internal spaces, changes of materials for the motor and bearings, and lubes.
I’ve already had a spin (actually a long climb in 29c) and it’s pretty amazing. Loads of power (it could feel like cheating to many roadies). It’s considerably more ‘e-bike’ than the (frankly, for me, perfect) HPR40, who’s greatest feat I feel was to make you believe you weren’t even RIDING an e-bike.
If you have anything you think would be a good test, or questions to ask (or answer!)while I have this bike, fire away. It’ll make for more interesting/informed vids and your help will be acknowledged in the video.
Click to expand...
Lucky you! I see that the new Treks and BMC bikes that had the hpr50 are now coming with the hpr60 - no frame mods necessary. I’ve read a few posts about people swapping motors themselves and either unbolting the heat sinks or modifying the plastic motor cover to make room for them. What a good move on TQ’s part to make the 60 backwards compatible with the older systems: same dimensions, same bolt hole locations, same battery compatibility.
I’d be curious to hear your impression of any difference between the 60 and the 40 if you set the assist levels the same. And if the 60 is as silent as the 40. And maybe you will give details of the mechanical differences and improvements the 60 has.
Looking forward to your review videos!
 
stompandgo said:
Does the HPR60 have the same clutch design as the HPR50, or HPR40? Have TQ compared efficiencies between the HPR60 and the HPR50?
Click to expand...
The 60 has the two mechanical clutches, like the 50. I’ve not heard about TQ efficiency data - haven’t they always played things close to their chest? I’ll ask.
 
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