New old coot

[Trikeadilian]

Greetings from Milwaukie, OR, as the title implies I've made it to the top of the hill and going down the other side. If I match me mum (94) I've still got a couple of decades to go which I fully plan on doing. Unfortunately my knees have put a crimp in my mobility and with my doctor and my wife conspiring to keep me from driving I don't get out and about much. I bought a Schwinn trike from Gas Bike with a motor but then I find that I need a permit to ride it and that requires a drivers license, mine is expired. I decided to electrify the trike to get me down the hill to the river and back, if they want to bust a retired/disabled Vet. for riding an e-trike to the river to go fishing, go for it badge man.

As for the trike and such, I bought some batteries (BXE 9800 mah) from Amazon (yes I got stung). Then a couple of weeks later I watched a video by by a Mr. Lloyd in which he blew the 9800 mah bit to smithereens. He opened one of his GIT batteries after testing several and getting an avg. of 500 mah and inside that thing was a rather loose roll anode/cathode and no protection circuit which it claimed to have. I opened one of my BXE's and it was tightly wound full of anode/cathode, insulating plastic sheeting and no protection. I would suspect that the BXE's have a bit more capacity than his GIT's but no where near 9800 which doesn't exist.

A couple of days ago I watched a video of a guy, I think from India, who used a starter motor, he drilled and tapped the rear end of the motor shaft and bolted a chain sprocket to it, attached it to the bike using stock chain. He balanced a small car battery on the nut buster bar, tucked it under the nose of the seat and tied it down. He used a solenoid between a smaller switch and the batt.. It seemed to work pretty good, of course it was go or no go. I was wondering if a starter motor from an 80's V8 tank mobile would be sufficient to hall my over sized buns up the hill from the river and up my driveway. Any thoughts great-fully accepted.

 

[indianajo]

Welcome to the site.
12 v lead acid batteries are kind of old school. I've kind of given up on them when the "no-maintenance" batteries took the antimony out and they begin sulfating to useless every winter when i didn't cycle them enough. The antimony batteries, the ones with the caps, you could drain the acid out, put in water, recharge to dissolve the sulphate, put the acid back in and motor on. I've got a fleet of dead tractor & lawnmower batteries, since I dont drive a car anymore to exercise a lead acid battery daily.
If you've got a 5-10 mile round trip, with not much of a hill, you could get enough energy out of a >840 CCA car battery to do it. But starter motors are meant to run a minute or two max, they will overheat and burn the insulation off the windings if run much more than that.
I bought two **** lithium FePo4 batteries, one from Amazon who gave me my money back, one from e-bay who didn't. I've since found that luna sold me a good Li Ion battery (with the attendant flammability if penetrated), and ebikeling.com has a bit of a reputation around here. I have an ebikeling power wheel. If you want to send your debit card # overseas to see if any hackers are interested in your account, Em3ev in HK and ebikes.ca in vancouver have a lot of followers. I'm using an ebikeling power wheel now on my bike, and have another on order from luna whose 2 week installation delay has run on to 12 weeks with the explanation "its at the wheel builder". Really whole bikes are more secure than conversion kits, but they cost $1600 up, and the cheaper ones come with a lot of broken spokes, broken mounts, broken switches, and other travails detailed in the brand forums. By the time one gets to the $5500 bike, most people here report they are satisfied customers. Better be IMHO. My bike cost $2000, the 17 AH battery $630, the power wheel $220, and I've ridden it all summer now that the good days are dwindling down to a precious few. Knocked out 30 miles in 2.8 hours today with the wind down to 3 mph behind me. Endless summer would be nice but the taxes & rent are too high in Hawaii to contemplate.
Good luck shopping & maybe converting.

 

[Trikeadilian]

Welcome to the site.
12 v lead acid batteries are kind of old school. I've kind of given up on them when the "no-maintenance" batteries took the antimony out and they begin sulfating to useless every winter when i didn't cycle them enough. The antimony batteries, the ones with the caps, you could drain the acid out, put in water, recharge to dissolve the sulphate, put the acid back in and motor on. I've got a fleet of dead tractor & lawnmower batteries, since I dont drive a car anymore to exercise a lead acid battery daily.
If you've got a 5-10 mile round trip, with not much of a hill, you could get enough energy out of a >840 CCA car battery to do it. But starter motors are meant to run a minute or two max, they will overheat and burn the insulation off the windings if run much more than that.
I bought two **** lithium FePo4 batteries, one from Amazon who gave me my money back, one from e-bay who didn't. I've since found that luna sold me a good Li Ion battery (with the attendant flammability if penetrated), and ebikeling.com has a bit of a reputation around here. I have an ebikeling power wheel. If you want to send your debit card # overseas to see if any hackers are interested in your account, Em3ev in HK and ebikes.ca in vancouver have a lot of followers. I'm using an ebikeling power wheel now on my bike, and have another on order from luna whose 2 week installation delay has run on to 12 weeks with the explanation "its at the wheel builder". Really whole bikes are more secure than conversion kits, but they cost $1600 up, and the cheaper ones come with a lot of broken spokes, broken mounts, broken switches, and other travails detailed in the brand forums. By the time one gets to the $5500 bike, most people here report they are satisfied customers. Better be IMHO. My bike cost $2000, the 17 AH battery $630, the power wheel $220, and I've ridden it all summer now that the good days are dwindling down to a precious few. Knocked out 30 miles in 2.8 hours today with the wind down to 3 mph behind me. Endless summer would be nice but the taxes & rent are too high in Hawaii to contemplate.
Good luck shopping & maybe converting.

Indy thanks for the post. I wasn't planning on using LA batteries but rather making a pair of 12 V L-ion battery packs, maybe 4s/10p and then putting them in parallel to get the necessary power. The biggest question I have is, are starter motors capable of continuous duty under a heavy load (me). The larger motors are about 1.9 KW which is good push but could they sustain that for about five blocks mostly on an incline. I could give it a little help with the pedals, surprisingly my knees don't bark at me riding in a regular bike position but recumbent is another item all together. The idea of using a starter motor was to save a few bucks, but with the peripherals I'd need it probably wouldn't save me anything. I reckon I would be better off getting an 1800 W motor kit of Amazon and build a 48 V battery pack. Take care out there. Trikeadilian

 

[harryS]

Hi, Triker. Your bought these?

Robot Check

Such lies. The only thing positive about them, unless they lied, is they might have a protection circuit in the cap, which might keep them from igniting in your pocket when they get overcharged. The best 18650 cells are abut 3.2 AH each, and those come from Samsung, Sony, or LG. I suppose .5AH sounds right for those BXE's. Lots of crap these days on amazon.

Also, you cannot use those plastic spring holders. In an ebike, each cell can put out 10+ amps and that will melt those springs. High current packs are made with spot welded connectors, and need a battery management system (BMS) to protect the cells from overcharging, and over current. If you build your own, you have to build several to amortize the cost of a spot welder for battery building. Some people solder them, but that takes a touch of skill to not ruin the cells.

Around $200 for a front motor/wheel for the trike. Then depending on how far it is to the fishing, $200 and up for a battery. I've watched some videos of the fat tire trikes and there's traction issues going uphill. A fat tire motor will not fit the Schwinn, but you can put maybe a 2.5" tire on a regular front drive kit.

Starter motors are pretty heavy and overbuilt for a bike. Years ago, my uncle couldn't start his 57. Engine flooded and coughing, he started cursing and drove it away on the starter, and it caught about three blocks away. Designed to hang under the engine forever with three bolts, it's probably no heavier though than your gas motor. Is that a friction drive? If you get the starter for free and some used automotive packs, you could make it roll up a 5 blocks worth of hill. Not worth throwing much money at it though.

 

[Trikeadilian]

Hi, Triker. Your bought these?

Robot Check

Such lies. The only thing positive about them, unless they lied, is they might have a protection circuit in the cap, which might keep them from igniting in your pocket when they get overcharged. The best 18650 cells are abut 3.2 AH each, and those come from Samsung, Sony, or LG. I suppose .5AH sounds right for those BXE's. Lots of crap these days on amazon.

Also, you cannot use those plastic spring holders. In an ebike, each cell can put out 10+ amps and that will melt those springs. High current packs are made with spot welded connectors, and need a battery management system (BMS) to protect the cells from overcharging, and over current. If you build your own, you have to build several to amortize the cost of a spot welder for battery building. Some people solder them, but that takes a touch of skill to not ruin the cells.

Around $200 for a front motor/wheel for the trike. Then depending on how far it is to the fishing, $200 and up for a battery. I've watched some videos of the fat tire trikes and there's traction issues going uphill. A fat tire motor will not fit the Schwinn, but you can put maybe a 2.5" tire on a regular front drive kit.

Starter motors are pretty heavy and overbuilt for a bike. Years ago, my uncle couldn't start his 57. Engine flooded and coughing, he started cursing and drove it away on the starter, and it caught about three blocks away. Designed to hang under the engine forever with three bolts, it's probably no heavier though than your gas motor. Is that a friction drive? If you get the starter for free and some used automotive packs, you could make it roll up a 5 blocks worth of hill. Not worth throwing much money at it though.

Yup I bought those, a hundred of them, but being a newbus and having not seen Richard Lloyd's video on them I fell for the bait. I tested one of them with my newly acquired Tenergy TB6AC+80W, I ran 2 cycles and it charged to 4.1 V both times with (1)766 & (2)778, on discharge it dropped to 2.49 V and (1)955 & (2)1008. They might be good enough for a cheap flashlight but little else.

The traction problem was why I decided to go with rear drive and put the weight over the rear wheels. I need a motor with enough grunt to get my oversized butt up the hill with out blowing up or sucking the guts out of the battery(ies). Take care, Trikeadilian