New Motor from Bosch for 2020

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I think this is exciting. Bosch motors have had drag that kind of feels like riding your bike in honey!
So, moving onwards, for model year 2020, Bosch is switching to lighter, no-reduction motor.

Content copied from:https://www.emtbforums.com/here-is-the-new-2020-bosch-motor/

• 2.9KG (down from 4KG in the old Performance CX line)
• Regular chainring (no small sprocket like the outgoing model)
• New chassis
• Almost all resistance removed after motor cut off
• All new 600Wh power tube battery

 

[Nova Haibike]

I'm assuming it is meant as a e-mtb motor only, but I personally would like to see a road version also, with support for both dual chainrings and 28mph/45kph

 

[JRA]

That thing is tiny! It will be interesting to follow and see how they addressed the gear reduction system in that small of a space that has addressed the drag issue that other mid drive manufacturers efforts have proven to be able to do. I feel that using standard chainrings is wise as I never liked the small ones, granted from an aesthetic viewpoint however.

The weight reduction of 1.1kg is pretty huge and although people talk about the possibility of lighter batteries in reality, especially if the demand is for more wh's, the motor is probably the better bet for weight loss although even that has it's limits. But for legally compliant purposes motors really don't have to lots of copper or be that big physically and casings can be made from say magnesium such as Brose has done to drop grams.

600wh is not that big a jump over their 500wh and wonder if that pack is backwards compatible via using higher mAH 18650 cells in the same casing or if it is based on 2170 batteries in a new case but able to still be backwards compatible. I am sure as more info becomes available all will be clear but good to see Bosch keeping up, and hopefully moving the ball forward even.

 

[blakjac]

I was on the phone with a bike shop and the guy mentioned this new motor. I’m excited to feel the difference once the motor cuts off. I hope it is a reliable as the current version.

 

[Ebiker01]

Nice improvement.
prob. The older ebikes with the Bosch system will see a drastic price cut.

 

[Sweetwater]

Are torque specs available?

 

[Marci jo]

I think this is exciting. Bosch motors have had drag that kind of feels like riding your bike in honey!
So, moving onwards, for model year 2020, Bosch is switching to lighter, no-reduction motor.

Content copied from:https://www.emtbforums.com/here-is-the-new-2020-bosch-motor/

• 2.9KG (down from 4KG in the old Performance CX line)
• Regular chainring (no small sprocket like the outgoing model)
• New chassis
• Almost all resistance removed after motor cut off
• All new 600Wh power tube battery

View attachment 33593

View attachment 33594

Thank you Ravi!
Wow, that's great news. It will be interesting to see the final specs, especially torque. Still loving my Specialized Vado with 604 wh and 90 nm torque. Incredible range too.

The link below is from Electrek. They are also stating that the new 600 wh battery is a couple inches longer. I wonder if the weight savings in the motor will be negated by the increased weight in the bigger battery? And back to the drawing board for frame changes for the manufacturers?

And also a normal size front chainring up front. I never was a fan of the reduced size chainring, but mostly from a cosmetic point of view. To me, it just looked weird.
Well I was researching a second ebike for this season, mostly to get something closer to 40ish pounds. Hmmm...might keep following this story and see what shakes out.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/bosch-2020-mid-drive-ebike-motor-and-batteries/

 

[drewberz]

Thank you Ravi!
Wow, that's great news. It will be interesting to see the final specs, especially torque. Still loving my Specialized Vado with 604 wh and 90 nm torque. Incredible range too.

The link below is from Electrek. They are also stating that the new 600 wh battery is a couple inches longer. I wonder if the weight savings in the motor will be negated by the increased weight in the bigger battery? And back to the drawing board for frame changes for the manufacturers?

And also a normal size front chainring up front. I never was a fan of the reduced size chainring, but mostly from a cosmetic point of view. To me, it just looked weird.
Well I was researching a second ebike for this season, mostly to get something closer to 40ish pounds. Hmmm...might keep following this story and see what shakes out.

https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/bosch-2020-mid-drive-ebike-motor-and-batteries/

assuming the new battery mirrors the weight (same 18650 cells) and its distribution of the old, i estimated between the new motor and battery you have a net 0.74 lbs. in weight savings. not bad, but figure you decreased the weight low and redistributed higher and probably more off-center. this is a total guesstimate.



biggest thing for me is reducing motor resistance and making the chainrings more 'normal'. if they standardize the chainring to say 110BCD or 130BCD, your options of rings grows greatly. and if they reduce motor resistance, your e-bike just became more useable with a longer range-possibly by your own power. buys them time to develop batteries more or even have a breakthrough in battery tech.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

A dissenting voice: I'm not in favour of a 'normal' size chainring.

Riese & Müller ebikes with internally-geared hubs (approximately equal-sized rings front and rear) look 'just right' to me.

Most significantly, having equal-size rings avoids the problem of having to split the frame in order to run a Gates Carbon Drive belt – the belt is run completely above or below the chain stay, not around it which would, almost certainly, be the case with a large front ring.

 

[drewberz]

You are right. very tiny. looks even smaller than the Tongsheng. Can you imagine the speeds the magnets are spinning at ? 600 wh is nice though, and larger chain ring will certainly be a plus. less resistance is always a good thing. it makes one wonder though, what internally caused so much resistance in the first place ? Yamaha's own ebike models with their own motors, have no detectable resistance, which makes them great to ride as regular bikes. Their CrossCore is a good fitness bike, that when you want some assist, you have it and its very smooth. (for those 'purists' out there? - lol). Of course they refer to it in their marketing as that, but until you ride one, it may not be evident as to why a call it a 'fitness' ebike. Is that a new niche of ebikes that they are trying to create ?

One less gear set for the reduction (now that the ring is full sized) thereby reducing efficiency losses?

 

[TrevorB]

Motor is likely to be lot more efficient than CX combined with 600wh battery, would be close to same range as CX with 700wh battery. Good enough for full day of MTBing without need use eco 90% of time.
A 600wh powerpack maybe bit much to ask for they can't change physical size as needs to be interchangeable with 400 and 500wh versions.

Hopefully there is option adjust power settings via phone app.

Expect there to be Performanceline (63nm) replacement along with 45kmhr speed version.

I'm not expecting much change from current CX 75nm, which is more than enough for most eMTBing and enough to match Shimano E8000 which has been eating into CX market share.

Still large market for current CX drive especially in cargo ebike market which it dominates and entry level MTBs. Saves manufacturers designing expensive new frames.

 

[larrynove]

Right Direction by Bosch, but it only means the weight of OEM bikes will go from 48 - 58 (or so) pounds to 46 - 56 (or so) pounds. If they can lower weight to 38 pounds then that will be perfect.

 

[com4n6]

Silly question....So is this new motor only for the eMTB? I am looking at a townie go.

 

[E-Wheels]

More rumours
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/bosch-ebike-2020/

 

[webcurl]

A dissenting voice: I'm not in favour of a 'normal' size chainring.

Riese & Müller ebikes with internally-geared hubs (approximately equal-sized rings front and rear) look 'just right' to me.

Most significantly, having equal-size rings avoids the problem of having to split the frame in order to run a Gates Carbon Drive belt – the belt is run completely above or below the chain stay, not around it which would, almost certainly, be the case with a large front ring.

+1 for me!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

High-res pictures and detailed info from eMTB news

https://www.emtb-news.de/news/en/bosch-performance-cx-2020-all-information/

Lots of new improvements for Bosch..

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Ride like a Bosch!

 

[Over50]

More rumours
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/bosch-ebike-2020/

So should we assume that a redesigned speed motor would be the following year? Active Line Plus 2019, CX replacement 2020 and speed motor 2021? The article also mentions a Powerpack 600? But then talks about and shows a photo of the Powertube. Can anyone clarify if the 600 WH battery will come in both forms?

I wonder if anyone considering a bike with the CX motor will now just hold off to either get a bike with the new motor or the old motor at a discount?

 

[Over50]

Ride like a Bosch!

I guess the video answers my question on the batteries (no Powerpack 600 and just Powertube). Interesting news on the cargo motor. Mikey's video answered my Performance Line Speed motor question (it is also updated for 2020).

 

[Ken M]

One less gear set for the reduction (now that the ring is full sized) thereby reducing efficiency losses?

The smaller front chain ring spinning at 2.5X the cadence rpm actually reduced mechanical losses when riding at high speed. The industry is too focuses on low speed acceleration and torque so Bosch gave in an actually made an inferior configuration that is still just fine for the 25kph speed limits of Europe. For 45kph speed pedelecs the older design is simply superior.