New Moscow Plus - my mini review

[e-easyrider]

wow thx guys. very much appreciated

 

[e-easyrider]

btw, I like Jenny's 25ah battery but had an early failure on my NCM Moscow stock battery, just barely out of warranty with extremely little usage. so my concern is reliability of these batteries. I'm not sure who makes NCM batteries and cells used? I am leaning to having 2 batteries for safety and to eliminate potential loss of ebike availability. Also maybe better warranties would help. 1 year warranties seems low for Canadian climate with maybe 6 months recreational usage. Do you know of any companies having longer warranties on these batteries.

 

[Bitmugger]

btw, I like Jenny's 25ah battery but had an early failure on my NCM Moscow stock battery, just barely out of warranty with extremely little usage. so my concern is reliability of these batteries. I'm not sure who makes NCM batteries and cells used? I am leaning to having 2 batteries for safety and to eliminate potential loss of ebike availability. Also maybe better warranties would help. 1 year warranties seems low for Canadian climate with maybe 6 months recreational usage. Do you know of any companies having longer warranties on these batteries.

Jenny's batteries have Samsung 50E or Samsung 35E cells in them. Top of the line. For my own battery I was able to verify everything looks well made, battery pack looks solid. I've ridden it in rough trails and wet conditions without issue.

NCM/Leon have Panasonic cells in them. Also supposed to be good cells. I've not had any issues with my own NCM batteries but I still recommend Jenny's batteries foremost.

 

[e-easyrider]

Thank you both for the info. I will probably buy a second battery in the spring... just need to decide on size. still leaning towards 2 smaller batteries because of my experience...(ie. less of a loss that way).

 

[e-easyrider]

Hi, yes exactly. From my experience these batteries can fail prematurely. so 2 small batteries I think are better than one.
I had a bad experience. I think if you plan on doing a long distance ride, just pack the extra smaller battery.

From a cost perspective I also think 2 are better than one. Jenny's 25ah battery is over $800 delivered.
I have been looking around and can find 13ah or 16ah for about $400 to $500. and lower risk ie. losing over $800 at one go...
so 2 batts equal 26ah, 29ah or 32ah which is better value and lower risk.
so the math shows about the same value or better for 2 batteries, I think? or did I mess up?

 

[Explorer-1]

Two batteries are better than one in some cases, but you have to carry the second one so much more weight; there is always a trade off. I'd go for the 25Ah though since you already have 1 lower capacity battery and hopefully you are good and would often only need to carry one on the bike, but have the second for quite long trips. Pure 'value' I don't see the dual batteries being that much better than the 1, except in actual usage the 2 batteries will probably get you more usable Wh which is different than the theoretical or actual Wh of the battery.

 

[Fred]

I have gone with 2 batteries on my Amego Infinite+ which is bascially an NCM Milano+ (ie a step thru). My main pack is 16Ah and the secondary one is 13Ah. This was mainly for historical reasons as I already had the 16Ah and got a good deal on the 13Ah. My intention was (and is) to only take along the 13Ah if I am going on a very long trip. To be honest, I think I have taken the 2nd battery along once..and didn't have to use it. I think I can get about 80Km off the 16Ah and around 60 with the 13Ah for a total of around 140Km. However, truth is I find my ass can't take much more than 80Km! I I rigged up a way to neatly carry the 2nd battery on the downtube using an old battery mount I had lying around. I prefer this to carting it on the rear rack and adding more weight back there. Also note that for these stepthru models (Milano+, T1000, etc.) where there are basiically 2 parallel downtubes with the battery in between, the larger case that comes with the 21700 cell packs (ie the 25Ah pack) may not physically fit between the two downtubes. Jenny, as usual being professional, gives all the measurements and highlights this as something that should be carefully checked before ordering.

 

[e-easyrider]

Hi Explorer-1, Jenny's 25ah has its place, but I had a bad experience with my NCM stock battery...with less than 20 charge cycles, very little usage but just over 13 months of ownership the battery failed. Leon Cycle was firm on their 12 month warranty, so from my experience these batteries can fail. so better to have 2 batteries...cut my losses. I am pretty sure it was a weak connection to start with, that caused the premature failure of my pretty new NCM battery...so buying a 25ah is risky...big loss if internal failure.

Also my rides are not usually that long. so 25ah is added weight when not needed.

and most important, is if you only have 1 battery and it fails, like what happened to me on a trip... you are out of luck. until you can get a new one.
Sometimes bigger is not better.

 

[Bitmugger]

Hi Explorer-1, Jenny's 25ah has its place, but I had a bad experience with my NCM stock battery...with less than 20 charge cycles, very little usage but just over 13 months of ownership the battery failed. Leon Cycle was firm on their 12 month warranty, so from my experience these batteries can fail. so better to have 2 batteries...cut my losses. I am pretty sure it was a weak connection to start with, that caused the premature failure of my pretty new NCM battery...so buying a 25ah is risky...big loss if internal failure.

Also my rides are not usually that long. so 25ah is added weight when not needed.

and most important, is if you only have 1 battery and it fails, like what happened to me on a trip... you are out of luck. until you can get a new one.
Sometimes bigger is not better.

Makes sense. If you are buying a spare I still recommend Jenny she sells smaller batteries than the 25ah. I've already got a battery to repair or I'd offer to try and repair yours, it will likely be a simple fix but require pulling the entire pack apart and doing a new weld or possibly sorting out a BMS issue. Doesn't sound like a bad cell, just a broken/loose connection somewhere inside.

 

[e-easyrider]

Thank You, I am planning to get a second battery in the spring...since warranty will be lost over the winter. I will consider Jenny since her product sounds very good and people seem to be happy with her product...
Does anyone know of a place that offers a longer warranty on this style battery? for guys like me who only use the bike in the summer. We don't get much warranty vs actual operational time...since the bike is stored for 6 months.

 

[Explorer-1]

Hi Explorer-1, Jenny's 25ah has its place, but I had a bad experience with my NCM stock battery...with less than 20 charge cycles, very little usage but just over 13 months of ownership the battery failed. Leon Cycle was firm on their 12 month warranty, so from my experience these batteries can fail. so better to have 2 batteries...cut my losses. I am pretty sure it was a weak connection to start with, that caused the premature failure of my pretty new NCM battery...so buying a 25ah is risky...big loss if internal failure.

Also my rides are not usually that long. so 25ah is added weight when not needed.

and most important, is if you only have 1 battery and it fails, like what happened to me on a trip... you are out of luck. until you can get a new one.
Sometimes bigger is not better.

I agree, I think I said as much in my previous message. Seeing as how you already have a battery I was still recommending the 25Ah as a second battery so you had the choice of 1 25Ah battery on your trip, your existing battery on your trip, or 2 batteries for a very long trip. I carry 2-4 batteries typically 2 on one bike and 3 on another. I have 5 batteries for 1 bike and 4 for another. With a large battery for one bike though I can do decent trips on 1 battery, but i typically carry a second minimum even if I don't plan on needing it, I often change my mind, and like you say in the event of a failure.

Many things can fail on a bike so, but ya I understand the expense involved in a battery failure, but I guess I don't worry about it. I treat it as an extraordinary event rather than an expected event. I have good luck with batteries I guess.

Still the question was value, and I didn't see any compelling 'value' in going one way of the other (speaking monetary) that really was significant given the trade offs.

Also one of my bikes has a pretty significant performance drop as the battery depletes another reason I like multiple batteries, and I never want a bike that uses 2 batteries at one, I want to switch from the 1 battery to the other for better battery maintenance and more control in general of my charge cycles.

Over all though understand 1 want the biggest battery I can get on a bike, most people that is not a priority. I know 1 battery is rarely any good for my best weekend outings, but I like to get the most out of them when needed.

 

[blueskyca]

Some of my longer (40-60 mile) on/off road rides that include 3K+ elevation change consume 20 - 40 AH of battery. Although not as elegant as the built-in battery, I add what capacity I think I need each ride in my rear rack pack and parallel to the main battery. I can also run with the main pack removed on some of my bigger packs. Other smaller packs that add 5-10 AH extra capacity charge the main battery as I ride through the XT-60 port I hard wired into the main battery harness using a DC-DC converter. You need to know what you're connecting but no major issues after 9 months of use.

 

[Bitmugger]

Also one of my bikes has a pretty significant performance drop as the battery depletes another reason I like multiple batteries, and I never want a bike that uses 2 batteries at one, I want to switch from the 1 battery to the other for better battery maintenance and more control in general of my charge cycles.

My son and I have identical bikes and a 13ah, 16ah and 25ah battery. We've found that's one of the other unexpected bonuses of having the 25ah battery. Both batteries deplete and lose some of their performance as the batteries die, but the 25ah has a MUCH better curve with its higher capacity. Down in the 46v and below volt range the 16ah is more sluggish and the voltage gets pulled down a great deal on the hills, but the 25ah with its deeper capacity has more useful energy in those voltage ranges and doesn't wane on the hills nearly as much.

 

[Explorer-1]

My son and I have identical bikes and a 13ah, 16ah and 25ah battery. We've found that's one of the other unexpected bonuses of having the 25ah battery. Both batteries deplete and lose some of their performance as the batteries die, but the 25ah has a MUCH better curve with its higher capacity. Down in the 46v and below volt range the 16ah is more sluggish and the voltage gets pulled down a great deal on the hills, but the 25ah with its deeper capacity has more useful energy in those voltage ranges and doesn't wane on the hills nearly as much.

Yes, that is going to be the case very often as the larger capacity batteries often spread the load across more cells so the drain per cell is less which can result in a much better discharge curve. This is why some of the very small packs are actually not a good idea, even when built with extremely high discharge cells not typically used in ebikes, you are stressing the battery a lot more in use. Of course there are exceptions because different cells are used in different batteries and sometimes the extra capacity is just a different cell, and sometimes it may be an additional cell to each parallel stack (13 for the 48V pack) or it may be both a cell change and a increase in the cell count. It's too bad every battery pack is not legally required to disclose which cell is used, I think for safety reasons and just full disclosure of specifications this should be required.