New Hyper Scorpion - not all electronics working

[TMH]

I'm just saying that EVERY bike manufacturer is looking for component parts, and component part manufacturers lost production time during shut-downs and have yet to been able to catch up to ever increasing demand.

In a normal world I am pretty certain that Juiced would have had critical back-up replacement parts available to cover standard defect rates. But today they are struggling to just get enough components to build bikes, and are likely not even getting those fast enough.

So I would be pretty certain that they would have been in the 'plan from the start.' Then COVID issues mucked up the plan.

Like I said above, Juiced has made the decision in this case to ship bikes to pre-order customers, and worry about fixing any issues later. In this case for Juiced, it seems that bike sales were seen as more critical to success than spares.

I also notice that Juiced has not published their weekly update yet, with these updates supposedly to continue through the end of the month.

And while the shipping estimate for my Hyper (early Feb purchase) was yesterday or today, alas no shipment email for me...

 

[Armchair]

Manufacturing shortages and supply chain issues happen all the time, for various reasons, but its not a get out of jail free card. You can sell less product and keep parts for spares or choose to sell lemons and deal with them later. I don't know why any paying consumer would defend that. Given the way they are handling this I'm guessing they are also going to put the onus on me to pressure them about the warranty. Ship date or date of working bike?

 

[martinctv]

Dude WTF with the patronizing, I'm not posting because I having a problem after a lot of use on my bike. I'm posting because it shipped untested (most likely) and arrived DOA. I manage a technical support team. When this happens this is priority # 1 and I'm furious with my companies production & shipping team. We replace or fix ASAP and don't make the customer feel like we are doing them a favor. New sales and upcoming orders are pushed back to make the customer right, not the other way around. IMHO DOA is a different animal then oh something happened after a lot of wear and tear.

This is with COVID too, you don't change your priorities. It's about putting the current customer mess up before a new sale / shipment and not the other way around. Not every company support is the same and the results are vastly different. It's about management, not "Harry Potter" wands. I'm sure I'm not alone in those statements.

On Juiced webste they even have a video proudly proclaiming that they test and sign off on every bike before it ships! I guess the QC is out the window?

 

[martinctv]

Thinking a bit further on this, we might very well be in a situation where the early adopters get initially burned on this bike. Although I do have confidence that Juiced will fix things in the end.

The Hypers have new controller and motor technology which, due to COVID shutdowns, likely went through a more abbreviated and rushed testing regime than normal. Then when things seemed O.K., the manufacturing of components was rushed so that bikes could be built and shipped.

I still hope that any controller issues are more of a one-off occurrence due to rushed manufacturing, but in the end I would not be totally surprised if they are more wide spread (perhaps due to rushed design qualification).

I haven't heard of issues with standard Scorpions, but those bikes don't have as much new technology as the Hypers.

Not according to the video updates over the last 5 months or so. Seems like Tora did a ton of testing.

 

[martinctv]

I'm just saying that EVERY bike manufacturer is looking for component parts, and component part manufacturers lost production time during shut-downs and have yet to been able to catch up to ever increasing demand.

In a normal world I am pretty certain that Juiced would have had critical back-up replacement parts available to cover standard defect rates. But today they are struggling to just get enough components to build bikes, and are likely not even getting those fast enough.

So I would be pretty certain that they would have been in the 'plan from the start.' Then COVID issues mucked up the plan.

Like I said above, Juiced has made the decision in this case to ship bikes to pre-order customers, and worry about fixing any issues later. In this case for Juiced, it seems that bike sales were seen as more critical to success than spares.

I also notice that Juiced has not published their weekly update yet, with these updates supposedly to continue through the end of the month.

And while the shipping estimate for my Hyper (early Feb purchase) was yesterday or today, alas no shipment email for me...

I ordered a Scorpion back in April got my ship order yesterday and the last update was 7/17 on the Juiced website.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Covid wouldn't come into play getting parts with the bikes. That should've been the plan from the start. Work order line items: 1-bikes, 2-parts. If the bikes landed the parts made at the same time would land with the bikes. Spares are critical for success.

Disagreeing again. Covid 19 has seriously disrupted supply lines. What made sense before may not be possible now, or less possible anyway. They may have planned to do it exactly as you say, and then with factories, trucking, port facilities, etc. being shut down in China, they had to take what they could get as China slowly re-opens. I don't know any of this for a fact, except that the lockdown did occur and it is slowly re-opening. I'm speculating on how it may have affected Juiced Bikes' operation. I don't know for sure. The thing is, you don't either.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Manufacturing shortages and supply chain issues happen all the time, for various reasons, but its not a get out of jail free card. You can sell less product and keep parts for spares or choose to sell lemons and deal with them later. I don't know why any paying consumer would defend that. Given the way they are handling this I'm guessing they are also going to put the onus on me to pressure them about the warranty. Ship date or date of working bike?

These are customers who have already paid for their bikes. Salvaging parts from a bike that's already been sold but not shipped is not a better plan. There's no good plan, as far as I can see.

I don't think anyone is defending it.

As far as the warranty, if I understand what you're saying about "the onus" -- wording unclear but I think I get it -- warranty starts from when you receive it.

 

[Armchair]

Out of curiosity have you ever worked in, or with, shipping and manufacturing? It has been pointed out how you manage this. As J.R said:

" If you are customer/bike #3 and it's dead, you should get bike #4 or the one in the warehouse that's ready to ship. Either that or the part from it that's bad. As a production manager of several decades in industrial manufacturing that's how it's done. First production out is made 100% before second production is fulfilled. "

A product isn't assigned to a customer during the manufacturing process. It is assigned at the time of shipment and shipments are normally determined by order #. For example in my company an order isn't considered complete until the customer has a working product. Other backorders are then pushed back. 95% of our product is either 100% or mostly assemble in China too so we were as affected as much as everyone else. Counting defective shipments as a complete order is also a big "no, no" when getting audited.

If you don't want to use my personal company look at Apple. They get back ordered when new product releases but still manage to take care of existing customers that received defective equipment immediately. It's part of the reason they are known for having great customer support.

" As far as the warranty, if I understand what you're saying about "the onus" -- wording unclear but I think I get it -- warranty starts from when you receive it. "

Yes, which doesn't make sense in cases like this. Otherwise it would encourage shipment of bad product if you could reduce warranty time by doing so. We personally assure customers that their warranty doesn't start ticking until they have a working product. By onus I mean I'm probably going to have to request this.

 

[Armchair]

Got to see the bike in person today. Took the seat off and disconnected the controller container box. It's not easily accessible and not what I would consider an end user level repair. A bunch of connecting wires are in the down tube. The Scrambler was much easier so this should be interesting. Still no additional updates from Juiced.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Out of curiosity have you ever worked in, or with, shipping and manufacturing? It has been pointed out how you manage this. As J.R said:

" If you are customer/bike #3 and it's dead, you should get bike #4 or the one in the warehouse that's ready to ship. Either that or the part from it that's bad. As a production manager of several decades in industrial manufacturing that's how it's done. First production out is made 100% before second production is fulfilled. "

That's how many companies would manage this. Apparently, that's how J.R.'s company did it. I know of no endeavor on the face of the earth for which there is only one right way to do things. People make choices all the time, and sometimes other people don't like those choices. Have you noticed this?

I don't know what priorities J.R.'s company had, but I'm guessing that their way of doing things supported that. I hope so, anyway.

I do have some idea of what Tora's priorities are, because he talks about them all the time, plus we have an over-10-year record of actual activity to analyze. From what I can make of all that, his way of handling customer services is in accord with his priorities.

I've never said I agreed with that. I've often said that I don't. I'm saying it's a legitimate choice.

There's a truth that most grownups understand, but people on this forum often overlook it for some reason: You can do whatever you want, if you are willing to accept the consequences.

It seems the consequences of Tora's choices are acceptable to him, with his business model, even if they aren't to me or you.

I'm not sure I can express this any more clearly.

(Yeah, I've had my own company, and then I went back to working for other people, and now I do again since retiring from working for other people. Very small, and not manufacturing. But the principles apply. It's all about service from my perspective, and I still have to make decisions that people don't like. Someone who wants to call me outside of business hours has had to have her access restricted just in the last week, for instance. She didn't like it. Too freakin bad.)

 

[Armchair]

You asked what a better plan was, multiple people responded, with one or how they would expect a company to respond. Even some with experience in the production and techsupport management. Just because you disagree doesn't mean other people are wrong.

That's how many companies would manage this. Apparently, that's how J.R.'s company did it. I know of no endeavor on the face of the earth for which there is only one right way to do things. People make choices all the time, and sometimes other people don't like those choices. Have you noticed this?
....

There's a truth that most grownups understand, but people on this forum often overlook it for some reason

Then you become condescending again. And just browsing through your recent posts in other threads, I see this isn't your first time. That's what we call thread crapping so lets just stop.


Update on the actual issue:

Tora has now responded directly on my ticket so that is a good sign. I just tried some additional troubleshooting steps that didn't work but hopefully that isolates the issue.

 

[lililtaco]

I can echo the OP’s position. The QAQC seems to be lacking. I purchased a blue HyperScorpian via indiegogo. Received the bike July 16th. Immediately emailed them about a chipped rear view mirror mount, a missing front fender, and the motor quit working after roughly a 10min ride. After sending photos and a video, it was suggested to unplug and replug the motor connection with the same results. Took a few back and forth and posting on social media for it to be escalated to get a response that addressed the issue. They issued a return label. I then followed up with them regarding shipping best practices with no response. At this point I will be requesting a refund. And, unfortunately the box isn’t in shipping condition, so I will be be purchasing a box to ship the box out — my fault for not keeping the box intact.

This isn’t the first QAQC issue over the years. From what I can tell, they do no have a large staff. I think running too fast with too light of a team causes a lot of these issues. There is also a lack of documentation company wide. This isn’t a Covid issue, this is a business philosophy issue. Bruce is sitting on these critical posts of Juiced and refuting everything — I would disregard these types of comments.

Good luck OP! I don’t have any suggestions regarding your issue. Maybe later gens of the bike will have some of these issues worked out. Essentially, IMO, the bike wasn’t ready for release.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

You asked what a better plan was, multiple people responded, with one or how they would expect a company to respond. Even some with experience in the production and techsupport management. Just because you disagree doesn't mean other people are wrong.




Then you become condescending again. And just browsing through your recent posts in other threads, I see this isn't your first time. That's what we call thread crapping so lets just stop.


Update on the actual issue:

Tora has now responded directly on my ticket so that is a good sign. I just tried some additional troubleshooting steps that didn't work but hopefully that isolates the issue.

I didn't ask what a better plan is. I said I don't think there is one. If you're not reading what I've said, then your assumptions have got to be incorrect.

I hope your situation gets resolved.

 

[Armchair]

I can echo the OP’s position. The QAQC seems to be lacking. I purchased a blue HyperScorpian via indiegogo. Received the bike July 16th. Immediately emailed them about a chipped rear view mirror mount, a missing front fender, and the motor quit working after roughly a 10min ride. After sending photos and a video, it was suggested to unplug and replug the motor connection with the same results. Took a few back and forth and posting on social media for it to be escalated to get a response that addressed the issue. They issued a return label. I then followed up with them regarding shipping best practices with no response. At this point I will be requesting a refund. And, unfortunately the box isn’t in shipping condition, so I will be be purchasing a box to ship the box out — my fault for not keeping the box intact.

This isn’t the first QAQC issue over the years. From what I can tell, they do no have a large staff. I think running too fast with too light of a team causes a lot of these issues. There is also a lack of documentation company wide. This isn’t a Covid issue, this is a business philosophy issue. Bruce is sitting on these critical posts of Juiced and refuting everything — I would disregard these types of comments.

Good luck OP! I don’t have any suggestions regarding your issue. Maybe later gens of the bike will have some of these issues worked out. Essentially, IMO, the bike wasn’t ready for release.

Wow, that really sucks. Were they going to ship you another bike or were they requesting you to send back parts or for repair / replacement? Never mind, saw your post.

Today they told me they are planning to send a controller, wiring harness, & upper battery holster & lock with hopes that I don't have to replace the wiring harness. Hopefully the parts will ship & arrive soon.

 

[Armchair]

That is really bizarre that lililtaco's thread went missing. There was nothing inappropriate, just a critique of the condition of his bike and the support he experienced. Is that common in these forums? That was weird but the thread re-appeared.

No update from here, still waiting on a shipping confirmation.

 

[TMH]

Well, I just got the shipping notice that my wife's Brushed Aluminum HyperScorp is shipping today. It will likely be delivered tomorrow.

Wish me luck. From the recent HyperScorpion posts, it sounds like I'll need it!

 

[Armchair]

It sounds like bangs, chips, and dents are common but DOA not so much. At least not on these forums. But good luck and let us know!

I just shot them an email asking for an update and if they could use a faster shipping method. Ground would push my repair back yet another week, or more, and I'm closing in on 2 weeks already.

 

[martinctv]

It sounds like bangs, chips, and dents are common but DOA not so much. At least not on these forums. But good luck and let us know!

I just shot them an email asking for an update and if they could use a faster shipping method. Ground would push my repair back yet another week, or more, and I'm closing in on 2 weeks already.

Actually there are quite a bit of chips and scratches. The fenders, spokes, battery (a lot on the battery), rack etc. My bike was a mess in the box so I can see why there is so much damage. I just finished puting it together. I will be taking it for a first ride tomorrow. I'll post pictures of the damage tomorrow or saturday. Pro tip: If you can have someone help to install the headlamp & horn that would be good. It can be done alone but a bit of a pain.

 

[Armchair]

Haven't had an update since Tuesday and nothing shipped this week....

 

[lililtaco]

Same for me. I haven’t heard from support since the 23rd.