Mission Control: Smart Ride, how to account for elevation in a loop?

[Roaming50]

I mapped out a ride in RideWithGPS. It is an 80 mile loop with 2100ft or climbing and, as it is a loop, 2100ft of descending. I think this is pushing the limits of the Creo SL battery without the range extender, but I feel this route should be achievable using the Smart assist feature in Mission Control.

My question is, as this is a loop, how do you account for the elevation when the total ride is zero. This seems like a dumb question, but do you just put in the value of 2100ft elevation gain regardless of the fact of any downhills?

 

[mschwett]

yes, the elevation figure is for gain only!

for an 80 mile ride, 2100’ of climbing is not very much unless it’s all clumped together. i bet you can do it without the RE. don’t go crazy fast with the motor on (wind resistance is the main enemy), don’t pedal downhill (you definitely don’t want to use battery to accelerate you from 20 to 28mph downhill lol, which is exactly what will happen if you pedal on a gradual downhill with assist on!)

 

[mschwett]

i’ll add that smart control isn’t all that smart since it isn’t tied to a route plan - if you know the profile of the ride you’re undertaking, and your own speed, you can do better.

80 miles at 15mph is 5.3 hours. the internal battery is 320wH. so you have a max of 60watts average/continuous. that’s not enough for climbing or stiff headwinds, and in fact it can be hard to get the bike to output so little power - it tends to go over. (if you were pedaling at 150w, 60w is 40% of your output, which would be an assist level of 20% in mission control). my plan for a ride like this would be to set eco at 20/20 sport at 40/40, and turbo at 100/100, knowing that if i left it on eco the whole time i’d likely run out of battery or be very close. i’d ride with the motor OFF for as much of the ride as i felt comfortable with, hopefully a few hours, reserving sport for the climbs, no more than 30 minutes or so.

here’s an example of this style of riding, using the motor only for climbs on an 80 mile ride. to make
this with battery left at the end the average support during the flats would have had to be 15% or less - hardly worth it. as it is i only used 18% of the battery, but that’s entirely depending on how fast you want to go, how heavy you and your bike and gear are, wind, your fitness level etc.

 

[Roaming50]

Okay. I'm still learning the capabilities of this bike. So I read it stated the range is up to 80 miles. Any idea what that is based on? Is that Eco mode, or Trail or neither?

As to the ride, it undulates with no major climbing. It looks like this.

Also for the Smart Control, I've only used that once so far. It appears that it completely overrides the power settings, so if I hit a hill I can't amp up the power. The trouble with this ride is that Mission Control's climb response minimum setting appears to be 75 ft, which most of this climbs are or less, so I'm not sure if it'll ever cut in. It looks like if I use Smart Control I will be stuck as a consistent support level until it works out that I have juice in reserve and it amps up the assist level.

As I now have my road-remotes, will I do better to just use eco for most of the ride, up it to trail for the small climbs and drop it back to ECO or even turn off for the descents (if no headwind). Or is manual control a recipe for running out of power?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I love the expertise of @mschwett! (Yes, only the Elevation Gain and Distance matter).
Only he is a very able rider, and what about you, Roaming50? Before you set off for such an ambitious ride, perhaps you should try something shorter?

I wouldn't rely on Smart Control. Yes, you can set Climb Reaction to 0. However, Smart Control tends to save the energy in the early phase of the ride to offer a lot more near to the end.

 

[Roaming50]

We cross posted, and you answered a lot of my follow up questions with your second post.

I'm not that strong a rider anymore (though for the last 10 years I would average around 1000 miles and 100,000+ feet of elevation mountain biking gnarly terrain in Colorado). Now I live in the flatlands of the midwest so I am trying to adjust to more bike path/road riding. Currently my old cross bike (which was steel and no lightweight at 22lbs) would allow me to ride for around 50 miles before my legs got very unhappy with me; 40 miles was more the sweet spot. I've never cycled 80 miles before but I have a few routes like this mapped out for when it warms up (too cold at the moment).

Climbs are not so much the issue around here. It is more about headwinds. That can be the killer.

So I like your suggestion of tuning the eco and sport modes. Basically, ride with power off when convenient, with eco where some assist is helpful and use sport sparingly. Ideally, try to save the power for towards the end when my legs are burning out and more support is needed. Though I am finding that riding with even a little power at the beginning helps to preserve my legs for later in the ride so I don't burn out so soon. It will be fun to experiment with this.

 

[mschwett]

the ride profile is very helpful. i’d definitely recommend relatively conservative settings on eco and sport, and use your road remotes liberally. turn the motor off when you’re in a mellow cruise with no headwind or climbing, going downhill, or just feeling good. that’s the beauty of the SL bikes, they roll fantastically without the motor.

as long as it’s off for a few hours of the ride, you’ll have the option of blipping into eco or sport whenever you see a hill coming, get stuck in a headwind, or just need a little boost at the start or finish.

your ride is mostly downhill after 70, with the toughest part being 52-63. you’ll want to economize heavily from 36-52 (assuming no headwinds!!)

looks like fun. let us know how it goes.

also - you probably know this, but past 40 or 50 miles for most adult males, you must eat or otherwise ingest calories, in advance of major fatigue, to avoid a dreaded bonk. i bonked hard once or twice and thank god i had plenty of battery left - i put it in turbo and practically ghost pedaled home.

 

[Roaming50]

The outward bound part of the loop traditionally will be into the wind and more uphill biased, whereas the return will typically have a tail-wind. Ironically, I have done the return half before (or similar to it) - It does not feel that down hill - it is all very slight. I averaged 153w over 2-1/2 hours and 38 miles (analog bike not the Creo).

I do have another plan though. This is a ride out to my mother-in-law and back. The plan is ride out, have tea and lunch with her and my wife (she'll drive out) and then I cycle back. I could always throw the charger in my wife's car and boost the battery during lunch

I should get about 50% change in an hour right?

 

[mschwett]

always good to have a backup plan! i’ve never checked halfway through a charge but given 2.5 hours for a full charge, that seems about right. someone else here probably knows for sure!