Major issue with 1 month old Juiced RCS - Video Attached - Bad bearings in rear wheel / motor ??

[iamjcl]

I have 145 miles on the bike, and never have ridden it off of paved roads or pathways yet.

Check out the video below and turn up the volume.

Video of rear wheel grinding noise when pedaling

- With extremely moderate pedaling (hardly any torque, as you can see) with the bike tilted on the kickstand it sounds like gravel inside the rear axle.
- No bad noises when back pedaling (that I can hear anyway) or free-spinning, and no bad noises when the rear wheel is powered by the motor via throttle (last part of video).
- Only when the rear wheel is rotated by the cranks / pedals does this horrible gravely noise happen.
- One of the things that struck me when I first received the bike was how smooth and quiet it was, except for the occasional clunk which was beginning to get slightly more frequent.

But this noise (which I assume is related to the typically once per revolution occasional clunk) really just seemed to start almost all of a sudden 2 days ago, but I guess it's been getting gradually worse and maybe I didn't notice it until then.

The cogs on the cassette seem tight - can't detect any play in them, and the whole cog assembly seems to be tight on the shaft - no play that I can see or feel. This without removing the wheel, anyway.

If you keep the rear wheel from moving and apply some force / torque to the cranks, generally you can feel / hear creaking. This is what I felt was causing the intermittent clunks and noises when pedaling.

I just made the video and will pass on to Juiced, but speaking with them on the phone with a description of the issue it sounds like they want me to send in the rear wheel for repair.

It seems to me that on a brand-new $2,500 bike they should send me a replacement as opposed to asking me to send in the faulty one and having it repaired. Also don't care to be without a bike for 2-3 weeks while I wait on those repairs.

Has anyone else had a similar issue (Juiced or other using Bafang or similar components)?

 

[harryS]

Sounds like the noise is from the pedal/crank/freewheel as the wheel spins with throttle. How does it sound with the power off?

 

[iamjcl]

Sounds like the noise is from the pedal/crank/freewheel as the wheel spins with throttle. How does it sound with the power off?

Its maybe not clear in the video but the only time any power is applied is at the end. As stated, no noise at all under power. Only when pedaling.

Maybe the cassette cogs have their own bearing, because using the throttle all is fine.

There has to be some kind of ratcheting one-way mechanism that allows you to propel the wheel when pedaling yet free wheel if you stop pedaling.

EDIT: There is some noise just rotating the wheel by hand forward w/out pedaling, but it is slight (same noise though).

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I'm not confident that this is what is happening, but I've heard noises like that before on bikes when the derailleur isn't indexed properly with the gears. Well, another possibility just occurred to me: a link in the chain that isn't pivoting properly. I've seen that cause odd sounds and behavior.

@Deleted Member 4210 could be right -- I've never had to change a freehub so I just don't know.

I don't think it's the motor because it doesn't happen when the throttle is being used. The motor doesn't care whether the controller is being actuated by the cadence and/or torque sensors, or the throttle.

It's somewhere in the drivetrain, because that's the operative variable, according to your video.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I'm not confident that this is what is happening, but I've heard noises like that before on bikes when the derailleur isn't indexed properly with the gears. Well, another possibility just occurred to me: a link in the chain that isn't pivoting properly. I've seen that cause odd sounds and behavior.

@Deleted Member 4210 could be right -- I've never had to change a freehub so I just don't know.

I don't think it's the motor because it doesn't happen when the throttle is being used. The motor doesn't care whether the controller is being actuated by the cadence and/or torque sensors, or the throttle.

It's somewhere in the drivetrain, because that's the operative variable, according to your video.

The reason I suggested the freehub is:
A) the noise only occurred when the cassette was moving. When using the throttle, motor is turning,but not cassette. As can be seen in video.
B) the claws (non technical term) on the freehub, grab the internal gear, (shown in the image I attached before) when pedaling forward, but lie flat when coasting or when using the throttle without pedaling. The freehub is effectively providing the 'clutch' action. If one of those claws (some people call them 'paws') got damaged, that could possibly be causing the noise. Note I said this 'could' be the problem in my first post- not for sure it is though. Just a hunch. I'd let Juice resolve it though. It's their defect and their issue.

 

[iamjcl]

Thanks for the photos.

I've removed the wheel from the bike. It doesn't have anything to do with derailleur or the chain as it still makes the noise w/out those parts of the drive train attached if you manipulate the cassette.

 

[harryS]

Does Juiced use a cassette? Many hub motor ebikes go with the freewheels to save money. A freewheel is like a $10-20 part. Made by the millions, probably not unusual for one to fail. Cassettes seem to cost a lot more than the mechanical complexity would suggest, but they're a lot stronger, or maybe it's the more-better-much-more-money mistique.

Either way, I would hope Juiced sends you a new one and picks up the tab for a shop to install it. That is like 20 bucks if you bring in the wheel, as there is a specific tool needed to remove either one.

 

[iamjcl]

After Juiced viewed the video and I suggested an advance replacement with me being refunded the cost upon their receipt of the old wheel, they are sending one out. Unclear if it includes the tire, so I may have to change that over to the new wheel.

Juiced has been responsive and I think is committed to getting it straight, with an interest in trying to minimize inconvenience to me.

Hopefully the new wheel will be issue-free and remain so for longer than 145 miles. Fingers crossed.

 

[iamjcl]

Yes - I don't know how they could really do better. I'm glad they didn't push for the repair - I think they were also sensitive to the time it would take (and hassle for me) to find a suitable box, send it out, wait for repairs, then wait for return shipping etc..., so that indicates to me they are about more than trying to make a buck on their products.

 

[John from Connecticut]

I have 145 miles on the bike, and never have ridden it off of paved roads or pathways yet.

Check out the video below and turn up the volume.

Video of rear wheel grinding noise when pedaling

- With extremely moderate pedaling (hardly any torque, as you can see) with the bike tilted on the kickstand it sounds like gravel inside the rear axle.
- No bad noises when back pedaling (that I can hear anyway) or free-spinning, and no bad noises when the rear wheel is powered by the motor via throttle (last part of video).
- Only when the rear wheel is rotated by the cranks / pedals does this horrible gravely noise happen.
- One of the things that struck me when I first received the bike was how smooth and quiet it was, except for the occasional clunk which was beginning to get slightly more frequent.

But this noise (which I assume is related to the typically once per revolution occasional clunk) really just seemed to start almost all of a sudden 2 days ago, but I guess it's been getting gradually worse and maybe I didn't notice it until then.

The cogs on the cassette seem tight - can't detect any play in them, and the whole cog assembly seems to be tight on the shaft - no play that I can see or feel. This without removing the wheel, anyway.

If you keep the rear wheel from moving and apply some force / torque to the cranks, generally you can feel / hear creaking. This is what I felt was causing the intermittent clunks and noises when pedaling.

I just made the video and will pass on to Juiced, but speaking with them on the phone with a description of the issue it sounds like they want me to send in the rear wheel for repair.

It seems to me that on a brand-new $2,500 bike they should send me a replacement as opposed to asking me to send in the faulty one and having it repaired. Also don't care to be without a bike for 2-3 weeks while I wait on those repairs.

Has anyone else had a similar issue (Juiced or other using Bafang or similar components)?

You wrote...." It seems to me that on a brand-new $2,500 bike they should send me a replacement.... I completely agree with you !

This is not 'Mr Fix-it' Science Project time when you're just spent $2,500....My Two Cents, Either Juiced sends you a replacement bike or
I'd cancel via your credit card ( Assuming you paid with a CC ) and tell Juiced to send you a UPS or other call tag so the bike can be returned.

I've told this story a 'million' times. I bought a Trek Powerfly 7 eMTB, the bike arrived with a slightly damaged controller lever. No big deal, replace the lever. Trek had
none in stock, backordered. I found a dealer that had the part, contacted Trek. No they said, parts should not have to be replaced on a new bike, so they
they immediately shipped a new Powerfly7 from Waterloo Iowa to CT and in four days I was riding.

I'm not comparing Trek to Juiced is size, that's not fair, but since you have a new $2500 bike they need to step up and replace it.

 

[iamjcl]

Well all I need is the motor / wheel, since the rest of it is fine. Nice that Trek stepped up and did that for you - pretty impressive on their part.

 

[John from Connecticut]

Well all I need is the motor / wheel, since the rest of it is fine. Nice that Trek stepped up and did that for you - pretty impressive on their part.

I'm glad to hear that a new motor and wheel will get you going again. Sounds like Juiced is on the case !

 

[iamjcl]

New rear wheel arrived yesterday, and the clacking while pedaling seen in the video I linked is gone. Just hope it stays that way for a lot longer than the 140 miles the first one lasted.

Motor part of it seems same as before (which is to say good, quiet, smooth etc...) but I seem to notice that the torque sensor is more sensitive (in a good way) now. It always worked, and worked pretty well I thought, but now it really seems to be more adept at applying or reducing motor in relation to my pedaling.

I really wanted a mid-drive bike (yamaha or bosch type) because of the great pedal feel they had, but with a bad knee and a worse one I needed a throttle also and ended up with the RCS. I knew the torque sensor wasn't going to be what one of those mid drive bikes was, but I was very happy with it because it was pretty close most of the time. Now, however, it seems even closer. Maybe it's because I haven't ridden it in about 3 weeks waiting on the wheel, but I don't think so. Somehow something is slightly different with this new wheel (or how tight the wheel / axle is now on the frame) and it is better than it was before. Nice unexpected benefit.

FWIW, one of the bikes I tested out when looking at options was a Pedego Ridge Rider (MTB rear hub w/ torque sensor) and that bike I thought had a non-existent pedal feel. It was like an ON / OFF switch when you started or stopped pedaling. Similar to turning OFF the torque sensor on the RCS. I even asked the Pedego guy if it was working - he rode it around himself and said it was. I'm glad I rode that one because I would have been very upset had I bought one of those sight unseen and expected any type of pedal feel. I think that one has a bottom bracket torque sensor of some kind maybe - and you'd think it should work well being there - but it doesn't. Or at least the one I rode didn't. I'm still not sure it was working...